Music leaders, show us your song list - NEW!!

[CatholicZ09]

I was wondering what you guys think of the hymn “What is this Place”? We sang this at Mass today and I thought it was beautiful. The music makes it a traditional Dutch hymn, written in 1626, and the text was written in 1967.

1. What is this place, where we are meeting? Only a house, the
   earth its floor. Walls and a roof, sheltering people, Windows for
   light, an open door. Yet it becomes a body that lives When
   we are gathered here, And know our God is near.

1. Words from afar, stars that are falling. Sparks that are sown in
   us like seed: Names for our God, dreams, signs and wonders Sent from the
   past are all we need. We in this place remember and speak A-
   gain what we have heard: God’s free redeeming word.

1. And we accept bread at his table, Broken and shared, a
   living sign. Here in this world, dying and living, We are each
   other’s bread and wine. This is the place where we can receive What
   we need to increase: Our justice and God’s peace.

 

[pianomany2k]

Hosea, I don’t know what hymnal/missal you use, but my parish uses Breaking Bread. When the directive was given out in August 2008, the 2009 OCP Missals were already printed and sent out to the subscribers, so they didn’t get the revision. The current 2010 missals got the revision and now “Yahweh” in the song “You Are Near” is replaced with “O Lord”. We haven’t used it in about three years, when the old version of it was out, so I’m expecting to hear some of the congregation sing “Yahweh”.

I still don’t understand the reason behind the text change (and I’ve read it several times). Choir member of mine told me about the change in You Are Near. I haven’t used or heard that hymn in a LONG time.

I’m too busy dealing with planning (well, trying to) a budget for all the new stuff when it gets implemented.

 

[MarkThompson]

I still don’t understand the reason behind the text change (and I’ve read it several times). Choir member of mine told me about the change in You Are Near. I haven’t used or heard that hymn in a LONG time.

I’m too busy dealing with planning (well, trying to) a budget for all the new stuff when it gets implemented.

The reasons were explained by Cardinal Arinze in his letter on the change. Or is that what you’ve read several times and still don’t understand?

 

[benedictgal]

I was wondering what you guys think of the hymn “What is this Place”? We sang this at Mass today and I thought it was beautiful. The music makes it a traditional Dutch hymn, written in 1626, and the text was written in 1967.

The lyrics remind me somewhat of Gather Us In. I can’t read music, so I can’t comment on the melody. The text is a bit suspect, though, because, as I read it, it tends to water down the Mass. Of course, the fact that the lyrics come fro 1967 seems to put this song on the same footing as “Sons of God.”

Of course, if the melody is fine, there is nothing stopping a composer from writing lyrics to the music that conform to the Church’s liturgical, sacramental and dogmatic theology.

I don’t know why OCP would even recommend Glory and Praise to Our God. That is a rather strange and bad recommendation.

My parish’s music director is going to use my recommendations for the Assumption. In fact, she was happy with my selections. She did not understand my reasoning behind Alleluia, Sing to Jesus, for Communion, but, after I told her that this was meant as a Communion hymn (and having shown her the lyrics in their entirety), she opted to use it. The back up is Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence since there is a Marian element in the second verse.

 

[pianomany2k]

My parish’s music director is going to use my recommendations for the Assumption. In fact, she was happy with my selections. She did not understand my reasoning behind Alleluia, Sing to Jesus, for Communion, but, after I told her that this was meant as a Communion hymn (and having shown her the lyrics in their entirety), she opted to use it. The back up is Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence since there is a Marian element in the second verse.

I still don’t understand why you like that hymn so much. It’s a nice hymn, but I certainly wouldn’t use it that often. It’s like any hymn. Unless it’s something new, I try not to use one hymn on a constant basis. It gets old real fast.

August 14/15, 2010 - Feast of the Assumption

Gathering: Immaculate Mary
Preparation: Magnificat (Haas)
Communion: Hail Mary, Gentle Woman
Closing: Hail Holy Queen Enthroned Above

 

[benedictgal]

I still don’t understand why you like that hymn so much. It’s a nice hymn, but I certainly wouldn’t use it that often. It’s like any hymn. Unless it’s something new, I try not to use one hymn on a constant basis. It gets old real fast.

August 14/15, 2010 - Feast of the Assumption

Gathering: Immaculate Mary
Preparation: Magnificat (Haas)
Communion: Hail Mary, Gentle Woman
Closing: Hail Holy Queen Enthroned Above

For one thing, Alleluia, Sing to Jesus is rarely used down here and when it is used, it is used incorrectly. Second, the Communion hymn should be oriented towards the Eucharist, that is why I would not use Hail Mary, Gentle Woman. I would not use that song anyway, with all due respect, because, inasmuch as the first part stems from the Hail Mary, the second part sounds more like some sappy 70s song.

I would actually save Immaculate Mary for the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception and use O Sanctissima instead. Sing of Mary would probably work just as well.

 

[benedictgal]

For any of our CAF Spanish-language music leaders, here are some suggestions for next Sunday’s Solemnity of the Assumption:

Processional: O Sanctissima
Offertory: Bienaventurada Eres, Virgin Maria (written by Manuel Garcia in psalm form, faithful sing the resonse, cantor sings the versicles–it’s the Magnificat)
Communion: Altissimo Senor
Recessional: Adios, Reyna del Cielo

Here is the refrain to Bienaventurada:
Bienaventurada eres, Virgen Maria, que llevaste en tu seno al hijo del Padre Eterno. Translation: Blessed are you, O Virgin: you carried the Son of the Eternal Father in your womb. It’s actually one of the Marian antiphons.

 

[CatholicZ09]

Benedictgal, you can hear the hymn at:

texasmidi.tripod.com/midi.htm#W

Scroll down to the W’s, and it’s in that group.

 

[hosea]

I was wondering what you guys think of the hymn “What is this Place”? We sang this at Mass today and I thought it was beautiful. The music makes it a traditional Dutch hymn, written in 1626, and the text was written in 1967.

We’ve not done it but the words are beautiful. I’ll check it out. It’s in our book.

Assumption of the BVM

entrance: Sing a new song
Response: The Queen stands at Your right hand PS 45 by Kevin Keil (ICEL)
Prep: There is nothin told vss 1,2,3
Communion: The cry of the poor and Holy is His Name or There is nothing told starting at vs 4.
Closing: Hail Holy Queen

peace,
h

 

[hosea]

I would not use that song anyway, with all due respect, because, inasmuch as the first part stems from the Hail Mary, the second part sounds more like some sappy 70s song.

 

[benedictgal]

We’ve not done it but the words are beautiful. I’ll check it out. It’s in our book.

Assumption of the BVM

entrance: Sing a new song
Response: The Queen stands at Your right hand PS 45 by Kevin Keil (ICEL)
Prep: There is nothin told vss 1,2,3
Communion: The cry of the poor and Holy is His Name or There is nothing told starting at vs 4.
Closing: Hail Holy Queen

peace,
h

I’m curious. Why would you use Sing a New Song? It has nothing to do with the Assumption. The Cry of the Poor is not even a Communion hymn.

I don’t mean to be critical, but, somehow, the selections, with the exception of the psalm and the recessional don’t have much of a Marian element. Maybe Holy is His Name might work, but, there should be a Eucharistic element.

Don’t get me wrong. Your choices are your choices, but, I am wondering, though, if these are what OCP is suggesting, where is their logic? I suggested to our music director that perhaps she might want to dispense with Today’s Liturgy and start planning on her own. A lot of OCP’s suggestions are completely off the mark. Plus, most of the time, the songs OCP pushes come from their stable of composers and not drawn from the Sacred Music element.

 

[hosea]

I’m curious. Why would you use Sing a New Song? It has nothing to do with the Assumption. The Cry of the Poor is not even a Communion hymn.

I don’t mean to be critical, but, somehow, the selections, with the exception of the psalm and the recessional don’t have much of a Marian element. Maybe Holy is His Name might work, but, there should be a Eucharistic element.

Don’t get me wrong. Your choices are your choices, but, I am wondering, though, if these are what OCP is suggesting, where is their logic? I suggested to our music director that perhaps she might want to dispense with Today’s Liturgy and start planning on her own. A lot of OCP’s suggestions are completely off the mark. Plus, most of the time, the songs OCP pushes come from their stable of composers and not drawn from the Sacred Music element.

“There is nothing told” is a beautiful Chris Wilcock song about Mary.
web.ocp.org/pdfOctavos/webReadyPreviews/22519z4.pdf
As to the others, you are right. I’ve often wondered why Cry of the poor seems to always wind up on Marian song lists. Yep, OCP suggested Sing a new song and I’m not sure why.
Guess I better get out my JourneySong book and see what the references suggest.
I’ll probably play it safe with communion and choose Eucharistic hymns. A liturgist friend of mine said that the rules are pretty specific about using Marian hymns during Holy Communion: a strict no-no. I was indulging my love of John Michael Talbot’s Magnificat by putting it into the Communion slot.
Thanks for keeping me honest.
peace,
h

 

[CatholicZ09]

I think OCP’s reasoning behind suggesting “The Cry of the Poor” for Marian feasts is resounding the Blessed Mother’s Magnificat, found in Luke 1:39-56:

“My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
my spirit rejoices in God my Savior
for he has looked with favor on his lowly servant.
From this day all generations will call be blessed:
the Almighty has done greats things for me
and holy is his Name.
He has mercy on those who fear him
in every generation.
He has shown the strength of his arm,
and has scattered the proud in their conceit.
He has cast down the mighty from their thrones,
and has lifted up the lowly.
He has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent away empty.
He has come to help of his servant Israel
for he has remembered his promise of mercy,
the promise he made to our fathers,
to Abraham and his children forever.”

Now, let’s compare.

The Cry of the Poor - John Foley

Refrain: The Lord hears the cry of the poor. Blessed be the Lord.

1. I will bless the Lord at all times, with praise
   ever in my mouth. Let my soul glory in the
   Lord, who will hear the cry of the poor.

Refrain: The Lord hears the cry of the poor. Blessed be the Lord.

1. Let the lowly hear and be glad: the Lord
   listens to their pleas; and to hearts broken, God is
   near, who will hear the cry of the poor.

Refrain: The Lord hears the cry of the poor. Blessed be the Lord.

1. Ev’ry spirit crushed, God will save; will be
   ransom from their lives; will be safe shelter for their
   fears, and will hear the cry of the poor.

Refrain: The Lord hears the cry of the poor. Blessed be the Lord.

1. We proclaim your greatness, O God, your praise
   ever in our mouth; ev’ry face brightened in your
   light, for you hear the cry of the poor.

*This paraphrases the Blessed Mother. “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my Savior…”

Verses 2-4 explain how God lifts up the lowly and casts down the mighty. This is also said in the Magnificat.

 

[agapewolf]

I’ve often wondered why Cry of the poor seems to always wind up on Marian song lists.

Read the words to the verses. Lots of the lines are very similar to the magnificat.

 

[pianomany2k]

A liturgist friend of mine said that the rules are pretty specific about using Marian hymns during Holy Communion: a strict no-no.

Interesting. I’ve never been told that before. Good to know for the future though.

 

[benedictgal]

I think OCP’s reasoning behind suggesting “The Cry of the Poor” for Marian feasts is resounding the Blessed Mother’s Magnificat, found in Luke 1:39-56:

Now, let’s compare.

The Cry of the Poor - John Foley

*This paraphrases the Blessed Mother. “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my Savior…”

Verses 2-4 explain how God lifts up the lowly and casts down the mighty. This is also said in the Magnificat.

It’s still a poor song. The musicality is of poor quality. Besides, why use a paraphrase when you can use the real thing? It just goes to show that OCP is only interested in promoting its stable than solid traditional hymnody.

 

[CatholicZ09]

It’s still a poor song. The musicality is of poor quality. Besides, why use a paraphrase when you can use the real thing? It just goes to show that OCP is only interested in promoting its stable than solid traditional hymnody.

Also, “The Cry of the Poor” is quoting directly from Psalm 34.

I will bless the LORD at all times; praise shall be always in my mouth.
My soul will glory in the LORD that the poor may hear and be glad.

(Psalm 34:2-3)

When the just cry out, the LORD hears and rescues them from all distress.
The LORD is close to the brokenhearted, saves those whose spirit is crushed.

(Psalm 34:18-19)

Many are the troubles of the just, but the LORD delivers from them all.

(Psalm 34:20)

 

[benedictgal]

Also, “The Cry of the Poor” is quoting directly from Psalm 34.

(Psalm 34:2-3)

(Psalm 34:18-19)

(Psalm 34:20)

But, the musicality is of poor quality. If you are going to use the Magnificat, then, use the Magnificat. There is no need to use something that is a mish-mash of psalms when you can go straight to the source.

CatholicZ09, the problem is that we seem to buy into the OCP machine so much (I am not saying that you necessarily do this) that we’ll simply take whatever the publishing house suggests. Furthermore, inasmuch as the Gospel is the Magnificat, there are many sound and traditional Marian hymns that will do this solemnity justice.

I asked our music director if she noticed something at our afternoon Mass. No one sings the stuff from Spirit and Song. You only hear the choir (who is middle-aged). Now, when the choir does not show up and our parochial vicar is the celebrant, he chooses traditional hymns and everyone sings. The same holds true with the Marian hymns. I can guarantee you that if you start with “O Sanctissima”, someone in the pews will pick it up and run with it. The same holds true for Hail Holy Queen, Enthroned Above, Sing of Mary, and Ye Watchers and Ye Holy Ones. Even at my dad’s parish, when the young lady was singing with her guitar Seek Ye First (which comes from the same generation and genre as The Cry of the Poor), no one was singing. In fact, when she strummed and sang Be Not Afraid, no one sang. However, in my case, when I picked music like Alleluia, Sing to Jesus, the faithful sang it during Holy Communion and even sang it on their own as I received Holy Communion. They carried that hymn and it did not die out. That tells you something.

The music director understood. She did notice that when she uses Traditional, Sacred Music, the faithful will sing, and, they are not shy about it. The young lady with the guitar kind of got the message. When she sang Faith of Our Fathers (out of tune, though), the faithful actually managed to steer her back on track. The problem with the young lady is that she and the guitar are not on the same wavelength. She strums one key and sings at another. I told her on many occasions that she does not need the guitar. If she wants to use the guitar, she does not need the capo as the instrument needs to be in synch with her vocal range.

 

[CatholicZ09]

But, the musicality is of poor quality. If you are going to use the Magnificat, then, use the Magnificat. There is no need to use something that is a mish-mash of psalms when you can go straight to the source.

CatholicZ09, the problem is that we seem to buy into the OCP machine so much (I am not saying that you necessarily do this) that we’ll simply take whatever the publishing house suggests. Furthermore, inasmuch as the Gospel is the Magnificat, there are many sound and traditional Marian hymns that will do this solemnity justice.

I asked our music director if she noticed something at our afternoon Mass. No one sings the stuff from Spirit and Song. You only hear the choir (who is middle-aged). Now, when the choir does not show up and our parochial vicar is the celebrant, he chooses traditional hymns and everyone sings. The same holds true with the Marian hymns. I can guarantee you that if you start with “O Sanctissima”, someone in the pews will pick it up and run with it. The same holds true for Hail Holy Queen, Enthroned Above, Sing of Mary, and Ye Watchers and Ye Holy Ones. Even at my dad’s parish, when the young lady was singing with her guitar Seek Ye First (which comes from the same generation and genre as The Cry of the Poor), no one was singing. In fact, when she strummed and sang Be Not Afraid, no one sang. However, in my case, when I picked music like Alleluia, Sing to Jesus, the faithful sang it during Holy Communion and even sang it on their own as I received Holy Communion. They carried that hymn and it did not die out. That tells you something.

The music director understood. She did notice that when she uses Traditional, Sacred Music, the faithful will sing, and, they are not shy about it. The young lady with the guitar kind of got the message. When she sang Faith of Our Fathers (out of tune, though), the faithful actually managed to steer her back on track. The problem with the young lady is that she and the guitar are not on the same wavelength. She strums one key and sings at another. I told her on many occasions that she does not need the guitar. If she wants to use the guitar, she does not need the capo as the instrument needs to be in synch with her vocal range.

Very good points. Benedictgal, I hope you weren’t beginning to think I was being a persistent nag in my viewpoint.

Now, I don’t understand why OCP suggests “Glory and Praise to our God” and “Sing a New Song” for the Assumption. Actually, looking at older copies of Today’s Liturgy, they seem to suggest those most of the time for Marian feasts.

I can understand their viewpoint maybe being they want a “praise” song for the processional, but there’s better suggestions out there. However, I think a Marian hymn would be most appropriate to set the mind on what we’ll be celebrating at Mass that day.

Also, I think we (or atleast I) can cut the Today’s Liturgy team some slack. I mean, they have to promote their composer’s works. The editor’s may not like some of the songs put out, but they have to suggest them because it’s their job to promote it, basically. Yes, most of us would like more Sacred Music put out/suggested, but then again, they aren’t going to completely ignore what their composers make.

 

[hosea]

Wow, CatholicZ09, that was a terrific comparison. It’s been so long since we’ve done Cry of the poor I had forgotton the lyrics. The faithful sing those old 60’s songs so well. After all, they own them. I’ll think about keeping it in. It is just a little tricky because the only other place to put a Marian hymn is at offertory (the other two being entrance and exit). The cry of the poor is not majestic enough for entrance or exit so I will have to way it against There is nothing told which we really enjoy singing. And the words are so appropriate to Mary’s commitment to her Son and her glorifying His Sacrafice. The Magnificat is more of Her saying ‘Yes’ to her Lord and becomming the Vessel of the Savior. But the Magnificat IS the Gospel so…
do I sound confused?

peace, and thanks again for the wonderful research.
you are on a beautiful walk with your Lord.
h