Music leaders, show us your song list

[hosea]

I lead music at the 12:15 Mass at St. Helen’s in Glendale, Az.

7th Sunday of Easter:
songs are from Journeysongs.

Opening: Join in the dance 438

Response: The Lord is kind and merciful 84

Offertory: God bless America (by Irving Berlin and arranged for the 9-11 disaster by Emily Crocker and Paul Lavender)

Communion: Three Days 423 and Two were bound for Emmaus 430 (our 2 favorite Easter songs!)

Closing: Companions on the Journey 851

Have a great week!
Terry

 

[Angela39]

Hello! I’m not familiar with Journeysongs but one thing I have found very helpful in planning music for mass are to go to the websites of the music publishers. They have the reading for each Sunday and song suggestions to go with them. I’ve used OCP.org and giamusic.com.

God bless!

 

[benedictgal]

Now, hosea, a lot depends on your diocese. Has the Solemnity of the Ascension been translated to Sunday over there (as it has been sadly, in most of the United States)? If that is the case, you may have to change things up severely.

For me, when I have had to select the hymns at the Cathedral (for this time of the year, given the translation of the feast), it’s been:

Processional: A Hymn of Glory Let Us Sing (Worship III)
Offertory: Father, We Thank Thee Who Has Planted (Worship III)
Communion: Alleluia, Sing to Jesus (Worship III–pay close attention to 'though the cloud from sight received him when the 40 days were o’er, shall our hearts forget his promise, I am with you evermore)
Recessional Go, Make of All Disciples

Actually the last three hymns would be perfect even for the 7th Sunday of Easter, since the Ascension will have already been celebrated. If that is the case, then either “Alleluia, The Strife is O’er” or “At the Lamb’s High Feast We Sing” would be suffice.

Please note that the Worship III reference applies to the original, not the horribly botched newer version.

As to referring to the publishing house’s suggestions, I never use them. They are not very reliable. They are also self-serving, since they only suggest the songs from their stable and hardly anything Traditional (that is from the Church’s treasury of Sacred Music).

 

[agapewolf]

They are also self-serving, since they only suggest the songs from their stable…

Why would a restaurant give its customers a menu for a different restaurant across town? Your point is moot. No parishes that I know of subscribe to more than one base collection. (exceptions include non-hymnal weekly worship aids) Some may have additional supplemental hymnals to the OCP music issue such as a gather or such, but the standard music book, such as a music issue with readings is usually provided by one publisher per parish.

It’s not self serving for a publisher to suggest songs from the books that the church actually uses, its common sense. Why in the world would a publisher not do that? This is not a negative trait. If a parish subscribes to a certain hymnal collection or music books it would only make sense that the publisher sends music planning materials that coincide with it. Its certainly not mandatory to use it. The old online version had all of the common books from other publishers as well.

 

[Cluny]

What exactly does “God Bless America” (which was written by a Jew, btw) have to do with the Offertory–the first part of the Eucharistic Action?

Please explain.

 

[benedictgal]

Why would a restaurant give its customers a menu for a different restaurant across town? Your point is moot. No parishes that I know of subscribe to more than one base collection. (exceptions include non-hymnal weekly worship aids) Some may have additional supplemental hymnals to the OCP music issue such as a gather or such, but the standard music book, such as a music issue with readings is usually provided by one publisher per parish.

It’s not self serving for a publisher to suggest songs from the books that the church actually uses, its common sense. Why in the world would a publisher not do that? This is not a negative trait. If a parish subscribes to a certain hymnal collection or music books it would only make sense that the publisher sends music planning materials that coincide with it. Its certainly not mandatory to use it. The old online version had all of the common books from other publishers as well.

Actually, OCP is very self-serving because it heavily promotes music from their stable writers, which is hardly part of the Church’s treasury of Sacred Music. And, if that is all they provide unsuspecting parishes who subscribe to their services, then, that is all that church is going to get. We need to think away from OCP and not follow their mindless suggestions. Furthermore, if OCP is only suggesting stuff from the SLJ, Hurd, Manolo, Ferrell, et al, then it is only serving itself because it is engaging in self-promotion.

McDonald’s and Dairy Queen both sell hamburgers, but, they hardly taste the same. Down here there are a plethora of Mexican Restaurants, but, while they may offer enchiladas, they do not taste the same.

 

[agapewolf]

Actually, OCP is very self-serving because it heavily promotes music from their stable writers, which is hardly part of the Church’s treasury of Sacred Music. And, if that is all they provide unsuspecting parishes who subscribe to their services, then, that is all that church is going to get. We need to think away from OCP and not follow their mindless suggestions. Furthermore, if OCP is only suggesting stuff from the SLJ, Hurd, Manolo, Ferrell, et al, then it is only serving itself because it is engaging in self-promotion.

McDonald’s and Dairy Queen both sell hamburgers, but, they hardly taste the same. Down here there are a plethora of Mexican Restaurants, but, while they may offer enchiladas, they do not taste the same.

You haven’t made any new points. I still stand by my post above. The “self-serving” negative statement does not make any sense. Why give a menu to the restaurant across town when one isn’t giving that food? It makes no sense.

I’ve got some issues with OCP in the way they handle some things, but this particular point of yours makes absolutely no sense, and does not stand up to reason. Adding additional punches such as “mindless suggestions” is just harsh negative wording that shows contempt with no actual point behind it.

“Unsuspecting parishes” is also a characterization that doesn’t hold up. People aren’t forced to buy OCP products.

 

[benedictgal]

You haven’t made any new points. I still stand by my post above. The “self-serving” negative statement does not make any sense. Why give a menu to the restaurant across town when one isn’t giving that food? It makes no sense.

I’ve got some issues with OCP in the way they handle some things, but this particular point of yours makes absolutely no sense, and does not stand up to reason. Adding additional punches such as “mindless suggestions” is just harsh negative wording that shows contempt with no actual point behind it.

“Unsuspecting parishes” is also a characterization that doesn’t hold up. People aren’t forced to buy OCP products.

Actually, I do stand by my statements because I have experienced them first hand. Our parish, as most in our diocese, has bought into OCP lock, stock and two smoking barrels. While you say that no one is forced to buy OCP products, they sure have a slick marketing job to hoodwink unsuspecting parishes, as Jeffrey Tucker noted in his article, “The Hidden Hand Behind Bad Catholic Music”.

My parish is a slave to the OCP liturgical planning guide. Most, if not all, of the music the guide suggests comes from the OCP writing stable and does not have Traditonal, Sacred music in it. When it does, it includes it in the wrong place. Furthermore, what really troubled me was when the keyboardist told me that this came from the Vatican. I told him that was not true. It comes from a publishing house with little to no ecclesial authority.

Incidentally, the times when the choirs have been absent, my parochial vicar (who does not like the regular music at the parish) picks Traditional songs for the faithful to sing. They actually sing these loudly and proudly. But, when the Spirit and Song, United in Christ and Ruse Up, and Sing, drek is scheduled, you don’t hear very many people sing. Even my pv does not sing. Clearly, there is a big disconnect there.

I’ve had my share of planning diocesan Masses and special liturgies, and I have not used any of the OCP drek for the English songs. Unfortunately, I have to use the OCP Spanish songs because they have a monopoly on the stuff. However, I make sure that these songs are doctrinally, theologically and liturgically correct. Even in Spanish, Bob Hurd still manages to botch things up. O Love of God/O Amor de Dios and Come to the Feast/Ven al Banquete are two such glaring examples.

 

[agapewolf]

Actually, I do stand by my statements because I have experienced them first hand. Our parish, as most in our diocese, has bought into OCP lock, stock and two smoking barrels. While you say that no one is forced to buy OCP products, they sure have a slick marketing job to hoodwink unsuspecting parishes, as Jeffrey Tucker noted in his article, “The Hidden Hand Behind Bad Catholic Music”.

My parish is a slave to the OCP liturgical planning guide. Most, if not all, of the music the guide suggests comes from the OCP writing stable and does not have Traditonal, Sacred music in it. When it does, it includes it in the wrong place. Furthermore, what really troubled me was when the keyboardist told me that this came from the Vatican. I told him that was not true. It comes from a publishing house with little to no ecclesial authority.

Incidentally, the times when the choirs have been absent, my parochial vicar (who does not like the regular music at the parish) picks Traditional songs for the faithful to sing. They actually sing these loudly and proudly. But, when the Spirit and Song, United in Christ and Ruse Up, and Sing, drek is scheduled, you don’t hear very many people sing. Even my pv does not sing. Clearly, there is a big disconnect there.

I’ve had my share of planning diocesan Masses and special liturgies, and I have not used any of the OCP drek for the English songs. Unfortunately, I have to use the OCP Spanish songs because they have a monopoly on the stuff. However, I make sure that these songs are doctrinally, theologically and liturgically correct. Even in Spanish, Bob Hurd still manages to botch things up. O Love of God/O Amor de Dios and Come to the Feast/Ven al Banquete are two such glaring examples.

You are still saying the exact same thing over and over, and it isn’t working. A slick marketing job is the job of any group that serves products…you attaching a motivation to “hoodwink unsuspecting parishes” is ridiculous. I mean, come on. They don’t have to buy it, and a parish can decide not to.

Just becasue your parish doesn’t sing does not make things a clear disconnect. My parish sings everything, in fact, they prefer newer stuff. Your experience does not make objective truth.

My original point stands…your harsh judgements of “self-serving” make absolutely no sense. When a parish subscribes to a particular publisher, the planning materials are going to go with the books that the parish have. …that is A GOOD THING.

 

[benedictgal]

You are still saying the exact same thing over and over, and it isn’t working. A slick marketing job is the job of any group that serves products…you attaching a motivation to “hoodwink unsuspecting parishes” is ridiculous. I mean, come on. They don’t have to buy it, and a parish can decide not to.

Just becasue your parish doesn’t sing does not make things a clear disconnect. My parish sings everything, in fact, they prefer newer stuff. Your experience does not make objective truth.

My original point stands…your harsh judgements of “self-serving” make absolutely no sense. When a parish subscribes to a particular publisher, the planning materials are going to go with the books that the parish have. …that is A GOOD THING.

Actually, Agapewolf, it is not a harsh statement. It is the truth. The planning materials are only good so far as they are self-serving in that it promotes what the publisher is trying to pass off as sacred music, as opposed to what the Church says. Just because it is in the planning guide does not necessarily means that it is suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Remember this line from the Chirograph on Sacred Music:

1. In continuity with the teachings of St Pius X and the Second Vatican Council, it is necessary first of all to emphasize that music destined for sacred rites must have holiness as its reference point: indeed, “sacred music increases in holiness to the degree that it is intimately linked with liturgical action”[11]. For this very reason, “not all without distinction that is outside the temple (profanum) is fit to cross its threshold”, my venerable Predecessor Paul VI wisely said, commenting on a Decree of the Council of Trent[12]. And he explained that “if music - instrumental and vocal - does not possess at the same time the sense of prayer, dignity and beauty, it precludes the entry into the sphere of the sacred and the religious”[13]. Today, moreover, the meaning of the category “sacred music” has been broadened to include repertoires that cannot be part of the celebration without violating the spirit and norms of the Liturgy itself.

St Pius X’s reform aimed specifically at purifying Church music from the contamination of profane theatrical music that in many countries had polluted the repertoire and musical praxis of the Liturgy. In our day too, careful thought, as I emphasized in the Encyclical Ecclesia de Eucharistia, should be given to the fact that not all the expressions of figurative art or of music are able “to express adequately the mystery grasped in the fullness of the Church’s faith”[14]. Consequently, not all forms of music can be considered suitable for liturgical celebrations.

My parish sings the Traditional hymsn fairly well. However, when it comes to the OCP stable, they do not do as well. You say that your parish likes the newer stuff. However, have you tried to teach them and your LifeTeen group anything that is solidly Traditional as far as genunine Sacred Music is concerned. I think that once they learn what the truly Sacred is, they may not be too inclined to go with the mass-produced banal pieces. And, banal is not necessarily my adjective, Pope Benedict used it to describe a lot of this kind of music in “Spirit of the Liturgy.”

 

[agapewolf]

Actually, Agapewolf, it is not a harsh statement. It is the truth. The planning materials are only good so far as they are self-serving in that it promotes what the publisher is trying to pass off as sacred music, as opposed to what the Church says. Just because it is in the planning guide does not necessarily means that it is suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Remember this line from the Chirograph on Sacred Music:

My parish sings the Traditional hymsn fairly well. However, when it comes to the OCP stable, they do not do as well. You say that your parish likes the newer stuff. However, have you tried to teach them and your LifeTeen group anything that is solidly Traditional as far as genunine Sacred Music is concerned. I think that once they learn what the truly Sacred is, they may not be too inclined to go with the mass-produced banal pieces. And, banal is not necessarily my adjective, Pope Benedict used it to describe a lot of this kind of music in “Spirit of the Liturgy.”

b-gal, you know I do teach them traditional, we’ve been through this way before. and yes, they like the newer stuff.

I still state my case…you’re not going to give a menu for the restaurant down the street when you dont’ serve the food

 

[JMJ_coder]

b-gal, you know I do teach them traditional, we’ve been through this way before. and yes, they like the newer stuff.

I still state my case…you’re not going to give a menu for the restaurant down the street when you dont’ serve the food

But your analogy is a little inaccurate. It’s not OCP’s restaurant – we don’t belong to the “Church of OCP”, not matter what their marketing department thinks.

It would be like someone printing menus for a restaurant and only listing those meals with food from the printers food distributing company. In this case, their only listing and distributing spam to a restaurant that wants to serve lobster and filet mignon!

 

[JMJ_coder]

What exactly does “God Bless America” (which was written by a Jew, btw) have to do with the Offertory–the first part of the Eucharistic Action?

Please explain.

Memorial day is Monday.

 

[Tepeyac]

(which was written by a Jew, btw)

Why does that even matter? A couple of the Gospels were written by Jews. St. Paul’s Letters were written by a Jew. The Psalms were written by Jews.

 

[agapewolf]

But your analogy is a little inaccurate. It’s not OCP’s restaurant – we don’t belong to the “Church of OCP”, not matter what their marketing department thinks.

It would be like someone printing menus for a restaurant and only listing those meals with food from the printers food distributing company. In this case, their only listing and distributing spam to a restaurant that wants to serve lobster and filet mignon!

The analogy is not inaccurate because you are talking about an entirely different issue. I was scaling the issue down to the one sentence. The analogy works because in this case, the restaurant is any particular publisher, not the church. It’s an analogy, not a broad statement of the world at work.

I’m not arguing about the choices of songs actually put in the hymnal. That is an entirely different matter…the choice of whether to include more traditional music, public domain, etc is another issue, and I would like to see more traditional in there.

I’m talking about the one sentence…it is NOT self-serving for a publisher to put out a planning guide to the parishes that subscribe to their materials to only include things that are printed in those particular hymnals. Thats good sense and actually helpful to the parish because as I stated before, most, if not all, only subscribe to a base set music program. It wouldnt’ help the parish at all to suggest songs from other hymnals-because most likely they dont’ have the music for it. This is just simple plain common sense. And by the way, the accusation against OCP is inaccurate as far as them only suggesting from their own publishing company. They have bought from other companies the rights to print in their music issues and they also suggest those as well. They don’t get any money from that use, in fact, the more those are used the more they have to pay the other publisher

 

[benedictgal]

The analogy is not inaccurate because you are talking about an entirely different issue. I was scaling the issue down to the one sentence. The analogy works because in this case, the restaurant is any particular publisher, not the church. It’s an analogy, not a broad statement of the world at work.

I’m not arguing about the choices of songs actually put in the hymnal. That is an entirely different matter…the choice of whether to include more traditional music, public domain, etc is another issue, and I would like to see more traditional in there.

I’m talking about the one sentence…it is NOT self-serving for a publisher to put out a planning guide to the parishes that subscribe to their materials to only include things that are printed in those particular hymnals. Thats good sense and actually helpful to the parish because as I stated before, most, if not all, only subscribe to a base set music program. It wouldnt’ help the parish at all to suggest songs from other hymnals-because most likely they dont’ have the music for it. This is just simple plain common sense. And by the way, the accusation against OCP is inaccurate as far as them only suggesting from their own publishing company. They have bought from other companies the rights to print in their music issues and they also suggest those as well. They don’t get any money from that use, in fact, the more those are used the more they have to pay the other publisher

Agapewolf, while I am happy that you would like to see more Traditional sacred music, the fact remains that OCP only serves to promote itself. Inasmuch as it has purchased the rights to some of GIA’s arsenal, what they have purchased is just as objectionable as their own stuff. It’s as though they have never read any of the Church’s authoritative documents on Sacred Music, let alone any of the writings of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI.

People who plan liturgies (this includes selecting the music) need to base their musical selections on the particular liturgical season and/or feast, the text of the readings and the authoritative documents of the Church, not on what a self-serving and self-promoting publishing house has to say. We should be following the Church, not OCP and not GIA.

 

[agapewolf]

Agapewolf, while I am happy that you would like to see more Traditional sacred music, the fact remains that OCP only serves to promote itself. Inasmuch as it has purchased the rights to some of GIA’s arsenal, what they have purchased is just as objectionable as their own stuff. It’s as though they have never read any of the Church’s authoritative documents on Sacred Music, let alone any of the writings of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI.

People who plan liturgies (this includes selecting the music) need to base their musical selections on the particular liturgical season and/or feast, the text of the readings and the authoritative documents of the Church, not on what a self-serving and self-promoting publishing house has to say. We should be following the Church, not OCP and not GIA.

I have refuted your point, as well as now you have, by admitting that OCP uses other publishers. You contradicted yourself in the same paragraph.

I’m not arguing even whether the suggestions from the publshing companies are good. That is beside the point. you are yet again skirting around the actual issue that I have taken up.

The fact remains that it isn’t “self-serving”…it is serving the very customers that it provides for.

 

[benedictgal]

I have refuted your point, as well as now you have, by admitting that OCP uses other publishers. You contradicted yourself in the same paragraph.

I’m not arguing even whether the suggestions from the publshing companies are good. That is beside the point. you are yet again skirting around the actual issue that I have taken up.

The fact remains that it isn’t “self-serving”…it is serving the very customers that it provides for.

Actually, I am not contradicting myself. OCP is very self-serving because it is selectively promoting what it wants sung during the Mass, not what should be sung. That is the big difference. I believe that it is time for us to cut the proverbial umbilical chord and simply do our homework when it comes to hymn selection.

OCP may purchase the rights to other songs, but, it is still part of its arsenal and it will promote only what wants to promote, as opposed to what is appropriate for use in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Might I remind you that OCP also owns several music publishing companies within its vast umbrella, like New Dawn Music. So, while it may not seem to you to have the OCP name, it is like Pepsi Cola, which has Diet Pepsi, Mountain Dew and other flavored drinks in its arsenal, or like Coca-Cola which also has Mr. Pibb, Sprite and its own brand of bottled water. Sprite may not be called Coca-Cola, but, it’s still owned by it. And, Dr. Pepper may not be a Coca-Cola product, but, in certain parts of Texas it is distributed by Coca-Cola.

I would challenge the folks who select music for your parishes to do your own thinking and research when selecting hymns for the next Mass. Do your homework, read the authoritative documents of the Church and study the readings and ignore what the publishing house suggests. It might actually be refreshing to act indepently of the publishing houses and select music that is genuinely sacred and is truly fit to cross the threshold.

 

[agapewolf]

Actually, I am not contradicting myself. OCP is very self-serving because it is selectively promoting what it wants sung during the Mass, not what should be sung. That is the big difference. I believe that it is time for us to cut the proverbial umbilical chord and simply do our homework when it comes to hymn selection.

OCP may purchase the rights to other songs, but, it is still part of its arsenal and it will promote only what wants to promote, as opposed to what is appropriate for use in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Might I remind you that OCP also owns several music publishing companies within its vast umbrella, like New Dawn Music. So, while it may not seem to you to have the OCP name, it is like Pepsi Cola, which has Diet Pepsi, Mountain Dew and other flavored drinks in its arsenal, or like Coca-Cola which also has Mr. Pibb, Sprite and its own brand of bottled water. Sprite may not be called Coca-Cola, but, it’s still owned by it. And, Dr. Pepper may not be a Coca-Cola product, but, in certain parts of Texas it is distributed by Coca-Cola.

I would challenge the folks who select music for your parishes to do your own thinking and research when selecting hymns for the next Mass. Do your homework, read the authoritative documents of the Church and study the readings and ignore what the publishing house suggests. It might actually be refreshing to act indepently of the publishing houses and select music that is genuinely sacred and is truly fit to cross the threshold.

I know tons about copyright information, thank you, however you are misinformed.

If it has other’s publishers in its hymnal, it is still not theirs. They do not own the music. They PAY MONEY every time the song is printed. Yet they still suggest it. You have contradicted yourself once again. This is impossible to be “self serving” in this regard. If they were self-serving, they would not be even suggesting the music.

 

[benedictgal]

I know tons about copyright information, thank you, however you are misinformed.

If it has other’s publishers in its hymnal, it is still not theirs. They do not own the music. They PAY MONEY every time the song is printed. Yet they still suggest it. You have contradicted yourself once again. This is impossible to be “self serving” in this regard. If they were self-serving, they would not be even suggesting the music.

I do know about copyrights and such. I have had to work with them. You need not take such a condescending tone with me. I also have a very solid understanding of what constitutes genuine sacred music, which apparently, OCP and its supporters do not have. If that were the case, Spirit and Song would not exist and the music would be more Catholic than Protestant in nature.

The point that I believe that you are missing, and what I continue to maintain, is that OCP is being very self-serving. You say that it pays money to have these songs included (you are not even admitting to the fact that OCP owns a lot of other publishing companies under its umbrella), it does so because it believes that there is a demand for this kind of stuff. It promotes this stuff and suggests its use because it is trying to promote its particular brand of music. It’s like Coca Cola and Dr. Pepper. Coca-Cola knows that Dr. Pepper is popular and it invests money in distributing it and promoting it in certain parts of the country. While Dr. Pepper takes in a good chunk of the profit, Coca-Cola is not exactly coming out poorly in this exchange.

As I see it, you are avoiding the gauntlet that I have thrown down which, in essence, is a challenge to the folks who select music to break free from the planning guides and actually think for themselves. Ignore what the publishing house recommends, do your research (basing yourself on the authoritative Church documents, the liturgical season/feast and the readings). It’s not rocket science, but, it is work, but, at least you will be thinking for yourself and not because a publishing house told you what to do…

The OP asked for musical selections. I’ve given them.