Music leaders, show us your song list

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benedictgal said:
I do know about copyrights and such. I have had to work with them. You need not take such a condescending tone with me. I also have a very solid understanding of what constitutes genuine sacred music, which apparently, OCP and its supporters do not have. If that were the case, Spirit and Song would not exist and the music would be more Catholic than Protestant in nature.

The point that I believe that you are missing, and what I continue to maintain, is that OCP is being very self-serving. You say that it pays money to have these songs included (you are not even admitting to the fact that OCP owns a lot of other publishing companies under its umbrella), it does so because it believes that there is a demand for this kind of stuff. It promotes this stuff and suggests its use because it is trying to promote its particular brand of music. It’s like Coca Cola and Dr. Pepper. Coca-Cola knows that Dr. Pepper is popular and it invests money in distributing it and promoting it in certain parts of the country. While Dr. Pepper takes in a good chunk of the profit, Coca-Cola is not exactly coming out poorly in this exchange.

As I see it, you are avoiding the gauntlet that I have thrown down which, in essence, is a challenge to the folks who select music to break free from the planning guides and actually think for themselves. Ignore what the publishing house recommends, do your research (basing yourself on the authoritative Church documents, the liturgical season/feast and the readings). It’s not rocket science, but, it is work, but, at least you will be thinking for yourself and not because a publishing house told you what to do…

The OP asked for musical selections. I’ve given them.
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I did not condescend, however when you said “let me remind you”, you did.

I am not avoiding anything. i know how the publishers work. It doesn’t matter if I “admit” it or not, it does nothing for the point I am making. I know they are an umbrella. Thats not the point, it diverts from it.

I am not even saying that the song suggestions are good.

I am trying to stay ON ONE ISSUE. You however always divert away from it. i am not responding to your “gauntlet” because it doesn’t have to do with the point I am trying to make.

You said simply publishers are self serving----flat out----BECAUSE they only suggest songs from their hymnal. I have successfully refuted that point that it is a good service to the parishes they serve, because it makes sense. See menu example. Simple. Thats all.

Not talking about the choice of music, not talking about the different hymnals that OCP uses. Stop bringing those issues into our conversation because it has nothing to do with THE ONE SIMPLE POINT.

Argue the song choices with the other conversations. Do not address me in that conversation because I have no interest in taking part in it. I was simply replying to one point you made, and have explained my issue with it.
 
agapewolf said:
I did not condescend, however when you said “let me remind you”, you did.

I am not avoiding anything. i know how the publishers work. It doesn’t matter if I “admit” it or not, it does nothing for the point I am making. I know they are an umbrella. Thats not the point, it diverts from it.

I am not even saying that the song suggestions are good.

I am trying to stay ON ONE ISSUE. You however always divert away from it. i am not responding to your “gauntlet” because it doesn’t have to do with the point I am trying to make.

You said simply publishers are self serving----flat out----BECAUSE they only suggest songs from their hymnal. I have successfully refuted that point that it is a good service to the parishes they serve, because it makes sense. See menu example. Simple. Thats all.

Not talking about the choice of music, not talking about the different hymnals that OCP uses. Stop bringing those issues into our conversation because it has nothing to do with THE ONE SIMPLE POINT.

Argue the song choices with the other conversations. Do not address me in that conversation because I have no interest in taking part in it. I was simply replying to one point you made, and have explained my issue with it.
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Actually, the challenge does prove the point. If we stay away from the suggestions that the self-serving publishing houses make, and they are self-serving even if you may not want to see it that way, we will find that their selections are not at all suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and they serve no real purpose other than self-promotion.

You really have not successfully proven anything, as far as I can tell. Your menu analogy does not even work. The soft drink analogy actually works much better. What OCP is doing regarding insering GIA works that it likes is analogous to Coca Cola distributing Dr. Pepper. OCP is being self-serving because it is trying to validate its purpose for using GIA stuff, much like Coca-Cola is being self-serving by distributing Dr. Pepper in certain markets. Both of them are making money off of this. OCP is a business and it is acting pretty much like Coca Cola and Dr. Pepper.

Reminding you about something is not condescending. I am merely restating fact.

Until those of us who plan liturgies start thinking for ourselves and not mindlessly following what the publishing houses suggest, we are never going to have good and solid sacred liturgical music. The publishers call the shots and play the pipe. We, like mindless mice, are all too willing to follow the piper when we should be doing our own research and homework.
 
Reminding isn’t condescending itself. But saying “let me remind you” is.

As usual, extra issues are being brought into a discussion that have no place, therefore the main idea is being ignored.

The fact that any publishing company comes with a companion to plan is not a negative thing. It is a nice service. The responsibilities lies in the people planning to use it as much as they want to supplement, however, they would only be planning what they have in the books in the church anyway-with or without the companion planning guide. Thats what I don’t understand why you can’t understand that.

I will not continue this discussion because the only point I wanted to make has been made, and actually discussing it has been avoided and skewed by other issues that were merely tangents.
 
agapewolf said:
Reminding isn’t condescending itself. But saying “let me remind you” is.

As usual, extra issues are being brought into a discussion that have no place, therefore the main idea is being ignored.

The fact that any publishing company comes with a companion to plan is not a negative thing. It is a nice service. The responsibilities lies in the people planning to use it as much as they want to supplement, however, they would only be planning what they have in the books in the church anyway-with or without the companion planning guide. Thats what I don’t understand why you can’t understand that.

I will not continue this discussion because the only point I wanted to make has been made, and actually discussing it has been avoided and skewed by other issues that were merely tangents.
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With all due respect, you’ve been the one skewing things, as I have read your posts. The service that the publishing house provides is not necessarily a nice service. When OCP offers suggestions it nearly all of the time offers its own stuff, whether they own it outright or have borrowed it. Very rarely have they suggested anything of substance.

The OP noted that most of his sources come from OCP. Journeysongs is a product of OCP, as is Spirit and Song (which I imagine is used at LifeTeen because their planning guides certainly pull a lot of stuff from that songbook).

The publishing house is not the Magisterium, nor does it have any rule-making authority or any other kind of authority whatsoever. While you may think of this as a nice service, it is merely nothing more than self-serving. OCP does a great job of marketing and convincing unsuspecting parishes that their songbooks are perfect for the Mass. The only problem is that just like the emperor’s new clothes, they are not all that they claim to be.

A good choirmaster, a good liturgy person will do their homework and base their musical selections on the liturgical season/feast, the readings and what the authoritative documents of the Church have to say, not on the whims of a publishing company.
 
benedictgal said:
With all due respect, you’ve been the one skewing things, as I have read your posts. The service that the publishing house provides is not necessarily a nice service. When OCP offers suggestions it nearly all of the time offers its own stuff, whether they own it outright or have borrowed it. Very rarely have they suggested anything of substance.

The OP noted that most of his sources come from OCP. Journeysongs is a product of OCP, as is Spirit and Song (which I imagine is used at LifeTeen because their planning guides certainly pull a lot of stuff from that songbook).

The publishing house is not the Magisterium, nor does it have any rule-making authority or any other kind of authority whatsoever. While you may think of this as a nice service, it is merely nothing more than self-serving. OCP does a great job of marketing and convincing unsuspecting parishes that their songbooks are perfect for the Mass. The only problem is that just like the emperor’s new clothes, they are not all that they claim to be.

A good choirmaster, a good liturgy person will do their homework and base their musical selections on the liturgical season/feast, the readings and what the authoritative documents of the Church have to say, not on the whims of a publishing company.
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They will not suggest others songs because THE CHURCH DOES NOT HAVE THE SONGS!!! That is my point. The church can’t do the songs anyway. If it isn’t the song book in the church, they can’t all sing it. So it is pointless to suggest it. 1+1=2

I am not skewing anything. I don’t call anyone an “unsuspecting parish” It it the responsibility of the parish and bishops and pastors to do the homework. They don’t have to buy it.

The soda distributing analogy is completey different than the restaurant analogy. The soda distributing is addressing actually carrying outside companies. The restaurant analogy is actually giving a menu to something that isn’t even served at the restaurant. 2 different issues. so, you did it again.

Is it the fault of soda companies that people are obese? because they show commercials? No. the responsibility lies with the consumer.

Ugh never mind, now I’m getting caught up in peripheral arguments.
 
agapewolf said:
They will not suggest others songs because THE CHURCH DOES NOT HAVE THE SONGS!!! That is my point. The church can’t do the songs anyway. If it isn’t the song book in the church, they can’t all sing it. So it is pointless to suggest it. 1+1=2

I am not skewing anything. I don’t call anyone an “unsuspecting parish” It it the responsibility of the parish and bishops and pastors to do the homework. They don’t have to buy it.

The soda distributing analogy is completey different than the restaurant analogy. The soda distributing is addressing actually carrying outside companies. The restaurant analogy is actually giving a menu to something that isn’t even served at the restaurant. 2 different issues. so, you did it again.

Is it the fault of soda companies that people are obese? because they show commercials? No. the responsibility lies with the consumer.

Ugh never mind, now I’m getting caught up in peripheral arguments.
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The parish does not have the songs because OCP does not put them in their arsenal. Why? It is because OCP is more in line with self-promotion of their artists (borrowed or not) and of their tastes rather than what constitutes sound, traditional sacred music. The parish is not the one editing the song books, the publishing house is. Thus, the publishing house is calling the shots because it decides just what it is going to sell to the parishes, and, since the publishing houses are very clever at marketing their stuff (even offering discounts and grants), they manage to pull in the parishes hook, line and sinker.

In other words, we are allowing OCP to dictate what should be sung in our parishes rather than the Church.
 
Now that the thread has been effectively derailed, could we get back to the OP’s original question? I am not a music leader, but I am interested in what other parishes use.
 
IMHO, Nationalistic songs such as God Bless America and America the Beautiful - while lovely songs - have no place in Mass. We are One Holy Catholic and Apostolic, not the Catholic Church of America.

Do other Parishes have such on the song list for this weekend?

The other songs on the OP list are in the most part wayyyy to fluffy for my taste.

Interested to see other lists for this weekend.
 
Cluny said:
What exactly does “God Bless America” (which was written by a Jew, btw) have to do with the Offertory–the first part of the Eucharistic Action?

Please explain.
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JMJ_coder said:
Memorial day is Monday.
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I think Cluny’s point was that normally one expects the offertory hymn to have a meaningful connection to the offering of the gifts. “God Bless America” does not do so.
 
The_Prodigal said:
I think Cluny’s point was that normally one expects the offertory hymn to have a meaningful connection to the offering of the gifts. “God Bless America” does not do so.
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That is true. And I did not mean to derail the thread. It’s just that a lot of parishes, in selecting music, tend to rely solely on the publisher’s recommendations, rather than researching on their own.

I love my state, Texas. However, I would not be so inclined to sing “Texas, Our Texas” or “The Eyes of Texas” (as a Longhorn grad), during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. As St. Paul notes, we are citizens of heaven, our rightful home. We are merely on this earth wayfaring as pilgrims.

This weekend, with the exception of the entire state of Nebraska and several ecclesial provinces in the United States, we will be celebrating the Ascension of Our Lord. This great feast, in and of itself, should not be overshadowed by using patriotic music. Jesus has already shown us the way to our true heavenly home. Let’s not derail it with secular patriotism. Remember, it’s God first, then country.
 
Wow. This is unbelievable. So much derision.
There was a survey taken at my parish last year. One of the statements that was presented to the takers was this:

I attend mass because of the music.
yes_________no

A mere 4 per cent of the people that took the survey said that they attend mass because of the music. When OCP takes over what is written in the lectionary then we better worry. Until then, everyone, just lighten up. Use the hymnals that your parish provides. And if it is OCP don’t worry. We are there to hear the Word of God and be fed by the Body and Blood of His Son. It does not matter to 96 per cent of the people what we sing as long as it is in tune. The safest thing we can do is stick to the hymnals our respective Churches provide us. After all, we give our ears each week to an ordained man who is making the hymnal selection. What should we do? Stand up during his homily and scream “DOWN WITH OCP! YOU BELIEVER IN SELF-SERVITUDE!”
My Jesus is much kinder and gentler than that. I doubt He would like me if I did that.

I started this thread to seek a sharing between music leaders and to just see what everyone else does for Mass.
Apparently, all I get for my asking is disharmony and criticism.
I do, however, want to thank Benedictgal. You are the only one who did submit a list. Your selections were wonderful. Can you tell us about your choir and accompanists?

I do have to say that hearing all those old men in attendance singing God Bless America from their hearts was quite amazing. I pray that their hearts were somehow comforted and any bitter memories were, even for the 3.5 minutes, given meaning.

I am heartily sorry I sought fellow music leaders. I had no idea there were so many waiting to hurl insults to the ministry that I have loved since 1972.

Peace to all,
Terry
song leader
St. Helen’s in Glendale, Az.
 
Hosea, not all folks who select music are necessarily music leaders. In planning many diocesan liturgies, I have selected music, pretty much telling the oragnist and cantor what should be sung.

A lot of the process involves being in tune with what the authoritative documents of the Holy See have to say on the matter. It does matter greatly what kind of music is sung for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Unfortunately, a lot of what is out today, mainly from both OCP and GIA, is horizontally-centered and has very little of the veritical dimmension. We need to realize that the music is not about us and about how wonderful we are. Songs like O Love of God/O Amor de Dios turn us into the actors and relegate the Triune God to a supporting role. I do not know if you have ever read “The Spirit of the Liturgy” by Pope Benedict XVI, or “A New Song to the Lord”, also by the Holy Father, but, I think that these will give you a better perspective on what kind of music should be used for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

There is also Musicam Sacram, the authoritative document of the Holy See on Sacred Music and Pope John Paul’s Chirograph on Sacred Music where he quotes Pope Paul VI who said that not all is fit to “cross the threshold”.

I would rather follow what the Church recommends and do my research on the particular liturgy of the day, rather than go by the self-serving recommendations of the publishing house.
 
We sang “Let There Be Peace on Earth” as a recessional hymn this weekend.
 
hosea said:
When OCP takes over what is written in the lectionary then we better worry. Until then, everyone, just lighten up.
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I’m not a music director, choir member or liturgical expert. I’m a simple lay Catholic who sings at the top of his lungs during Mass when the song lifts my heart to the Lord and inspires or enhances my prayer experience in church.

My biggest complaint is why is the responsorial hymn changed from what the Church recommends, why do we sing songs from the 1960s instead of utilizing the incredible storage of anchient hymns we have at our disposal? Why don’t other Catholics sing at all but they say loadly the “Our Father”. Why do so many people leave before the recessional hymn concludes? Wouldn’t a simple reminder every now and then of St Augustine’s words go a long way? “When one sings one prays twice”.
 
hosea said:
Wow. This is unbelievable. So much derision.
There was a survey taken at my parish last year. One of the statements that was presented to the takers was this:

I attend mass because of the music.
yes_________no

A mere 4 per cent of the people that took the survey said that they attend mass because of the music. .
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Poorly written survey question. No one should attend Mass because of the Music. We are there to as an act of worship and obedience.

Those who answered “NO” may be very well saying “I continue to attend Mass in spite of the music selections”.

A better way to word your survey would have been…

“What type of music is most fitting for Mass” then give a multiple choice.

“What type of music is not fitting for Mass”

“What can be done to better the music at our Masses?”

"What are your favorite hymns? "

“If you could pick one song that would never be used at Mass again, what would it be?”
 
No parishes that I know of subscribe to more than one base collection. (exceptions include non-hymnal weekly worship aids) Some may have additional supplemental hymnals to the OCP music issue such as a gather or such, but the standard music book, such as a music issue with readings is usually provided by one publisher per parish.
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I am HEAVILY invovled with the Music Ministry at my parish. We may have only one hymnal (Gather Comprehensive, 2nd Edition), but our choir sings hymns from a plethora of different sources.
 
Attempting to get this thread back on track…

This past week was The Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ.

We opened with Table of Plenty by Dan Schutte. I just love playing the John Michael Talbot guitar intro on my Taylor 12!
Response: Our blessing cup by Bob Hurd
Prep: Panis Angelicus Composed by Cesar Auguste Franck (1822-1890). This is acutally a duet for melody/alto but I improvised a tenor part along with my wife on melody and our dear friend on alto.
Communion: I am the living bread 822 and To be your bread 816 both by David Haas.
Closing: Glory in the Cross by Dan Schutte 523

all songs are in Journeysongs.

We were off last week vacationing in San Diego. If you ever get the chance to visit the University of San Diego (a private Catholic university) we highly recommend it. Incredibly beautiful campus and unbelievably immaculate Church. Called The Immaculata coincidentally.
sandiego.edu/immaculata/about.php

sandiego.edu/about/
Peace,
Terry
 
hosea said:
Attempting to get this thread back on track…

This past week was The Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ.

We opened with Table of Plenty by Dan Schutte. I just love playing the John Michael Talbot guitar intro on my Taylor 12!
Response: Our blessing cup by Bob Hurd
Prep: Panis Angelicus Composed by Cesar Auguste Franck (1822-1890). This is acutally a duet for melody/alto but I improvised a tenor part along with my wife on melody and our dear friend on alto.
Communion: I am the living bread 822 and To be your bread 816 both by David Haas.
Closing: Glory in the Cross by Dan Schutte 523

all songs are in Journeysongs.

We were off last week vacationing in San Diego. If you ever get the chance to visit the University of San Diego (a private Catholic university) we highly recommend it. Incredibly beautiful campus and unbelievably immaculate Church. Called The Immaculata coincidentally.
sandiego.edu/immaculata/about.php

sandiego.edu/about/
Peace,
Terry
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Table of Plenty, with all due respect, is a poor choice. We were stuck with that one in my parish. My parochial vicar seemed to cringe.

In the past, when I have selected the music, I have chosen this:

At that First Eucharist (Entrance)
Father, We Thank Thee Who Has Planted (taken directly from the Didache), the Panis Angelicus or the Ave Verum (Offertory)
Shepherd of Souls, I Received the Living God, Alleluia Sing to Jesus or Draw Near and Take the Body of Your Lord
God, We Praise You (or some deritive of the Te Deum)

If Benediction follows, then it’s the Pange Lingua

Table of Plenty and To Be Your Bread really speak zilch about the incredible mystery of the Holy Eucharist and make us the focus and not the Blessed Sacrament. The older hymns have a rich, theological and spiritual depth that is not found in many of the new stuff that OCP peddles.
 
Shepherd of Souls, I Received the Living God, Alleluia Sing to Jesus and Draw Near and Take the Body of Your Lord are some of our favorite pre-Vatican II songs. We do them often. They are the ones that take the elderly back to a traditional time when the Church was just considering changing how it viewed the laity.

Thanks for sharing.
Peace,
Terry
by the way, my choir’s name is Hosea. Mine’s Terry. In case you want to call me by name.
and your’s?
 
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