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VociMike
Guest
Notice how Catholics aren’t arguing with each other, flooding the blogs, etc over the music at the papal Vespers service? A true study in contrast.
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frommi
Guest
Because 95% of the people who tune into blogs and message boards probably count themselves as ‘traditionalists’
Not to mention…the numbers who watched the vesper service paled in comparison to the numbers who watched the mass.
The music at the mass ‘divides’ us because folks like you are saying it ‘divides’ us.
The same 15 people are making the same statements over and over in all corners of the internet…that’s not being divided…that’s 15 people with a narrow dogmatic view of music.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
Really? I have held this view for 40 years as did my parents, aunts, uncles and neighbors who went to earlier and earlier Masses to avoid the music and who voted with their feet to move to parishes where they don’t have to listen to the type of music which does indeed divide. Everything is not “I’m OK; you’re OK - just focus on the Eucharist”. I would rather have no music than to be subjected to the kind of sacro-salsa and sacro-pop I heard yesterday.
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puzzleannie
Guest
if you are not willing to volunteer your services, practice for weeks at inconvenient times and stand in the blazing hot sun for hours to sing for the Pope I really don’t think you have anything to criticize. I think the music for all the events, including and especially the Mass in Washington, has been exceptional, delightfully varied, and presented liturgy richly for those participating and for those viewing who may be new to it, and richly appropriate for an American Church whose hallmark is diversity. The vespers was indeed lovely.
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FAB
Guest
I tend to agree. There is no one I know,outside of web blogs, that express these types of opinions concerning music, going back to the TLM or revieving the Eucharist by hand or any of a number of other complaints I have read here. The mission of the church, and the message of this Pope goes far beyond these concerns.
Peace,
FAB
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brotherhrolf
Guest
Twenty-five years of service as a cathedral chorister. Three hours of practice a week. I do indeed put my money where my mouth is and in those twenty-five years I have been exposed to a very, very wide variety of liturgical music. I think I have some idea of whereof I speak.
No blazing sun Annie but how about a thunderstorm when JPII came to New Orleans in '87. Does that count? There was no sacro pop or Dixieland brass band music in the Mass celebrated nor was there a Cajun fiddle playing a lively two-step during the Offertory. It was pedestrian compared to yesterday’s Mass and I believe New Orleans would qualify as a city of extraordinary diversity.
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Maritsa
Guest
All the people there seemed to agree and approve of one song.
Placido Domingo’s Panis Angelicus.
There’s a song that doesn’t divide.
Placido Domingo’s Panis Angelicus.
There’s a song that doesn’t divide.
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Michael96
Guest
I hope we don’t get to a position when music is acceptable only when everyone approves of it. We’d have no music.
I think it’s most important for parishes to offer a range of worship music if they can, and to ensure everyone knows what to expect at particular mass.
Must go now and work on an arrangement for a Taize chant we haven’t done before. That’s one type of music which does seem to please *almost *everyone *almost *all of the time.
I think it’s most important for parishes to offer a range of worship music if they can, and to ensure everyone knows what to expect at particular mass.
Must go now and work on an arrangement for a Taize chant we haven’t done before. That’s one type of music which does seem to please *almost *everyone *almost *all of the time.
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Patrick_Eastin
Guest
Indeed. And it is within the reach of the average parish choir.
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frommi
Guest
Which was pretty much nothing more than a performance…which most would say doesn’t have much place in the context of the Eucharist.
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MrS
Guest
So, do you think Thomas Aquinas would agree with you…just a performance?
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tomarin
Guest
sometimes i think that would be an improvement over the status quo.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
Placido Domingo in a performance? Did you note that he knelt to kiss the HF’s ring? That is the action of a life long Catholic. Look how many performances are in St. Peter’s. When they are clearly identified as performances no one kisses Peter’s Ring.
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Joannm
Guest
Probably, but I saw it as a performance. WHy did they need a first class opera star sing it. Why not a regular cantor or the choir. It’'s the same thing when they have big stars singing the National Anthem at ball games. The focus is not on the words but on the one singing it.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
Panis Angelicus was written for soloist and choir. In fact the choir backed Domingo. Why have Kathleen Battle sing the Lord’s Prayer…why not the principal cantor of the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception? To honor the Holy Father. No one knew that Pacido Domingo was going to do it…It came as a total welcomed surpise to me and to the HF. His eyes lit up. Domingo was not there to perform, he was there to use his voice in praise of the Eucharist.
I may disagree with the choice of music but I would never accuse any member of any of the choirs there of “performing”. All sang to the best of their abilities to honor the HF and to sing praise to God. Domingo deserves the same consideration.
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anamchara
Guest
So true.
you’ve held the view for 40 yrs so that makes the poster wrong? lol, how funny. And please tell me who thinks “I’m ok your Ok”? You keep repeating this. It’s obviously directed at certain posters which I find somewhat insulting. Please explain this sentiment that you are accusing people of. I’m frankly sick of “we are not all happy clappy, we are not all I’m ok your ok, we are not all kumbaya” What the heck?? So, if anyone has a different view it means we just throw caution to the wind and not care? What gives you the right to assume to know what is in the hearts and minds of the faithful!
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frommi
Guest
My point is that it was put out there as a communion meditation of sorts…which the rubrics don’t provide for. The positioning of the song made it more performance based. It’s a lovely poem set to music…it was just borderline placement of the piece…would’ve been more suitable for offertory or as a prelude.
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Michael96
Guest
Well I think that often could be one option.
Is there really a problem in some parishes that all the masses have music that pople don’t like? I’m “lucky” in that I love both listening to and playing all types of music; from chant through Victorian hymns through to modern worship songs; but I sympathise with anyone who is forced to attend a mass with music that doesn’t help them enter into worship. On the other hand I have little sympathy with people who think only the music that helps *them *worship is acceptable.
Tim Hughes (a modern worship songwriter) found this article commenting on new trends in worship music:
“There are several reasons for opposing it. One, it’s too new. Two, it’s often worldly, even blasphemous. The new Christian music is not as pleasant as the more established style. Because there are so many new songs, you can’t learn them all. It puts too much emphasis on instrumental music rather than godly lyrics. This new music creates disturbances making people act indecently and disorderly. The preceding generation got along without it. It’s a money making scam and some of these new music upstarts are lewd and loose.”
Sound familiar? But it was in an American Newspaper and was a pastor attacking Isaac Watts, writer of ‘When I survey the wonderous cross,’ in 1723.
But I do hope and pray all people are able to find a mass with music that takes them deeper into worship, whether for them that is plain chant, Taize chant, Victorian hymns or new songs.
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Maritsa
Guest
I’m pretty far from a traditionalist. I don’t mind trumpets, guitars, or even drums as I’ve seen them done well. I don’t mind modern music. I don’t mind the novus ordo. I don’t like Latin. I came to defend the music from what I perceived to be an outcry over the entire thing not being in Gregorian chant. Then I watched the Mass.
I was disturbed by the Responsorial Psalm and a couple of the others which sounded like they had washboards and maracas playing with a lounge pianist in them. I wasn’t fond of the part where they had a line of people from different ethnicities in the choir rotate through languages. I saw a man do a finger circle that I first mistook to be someone directing them to wrap it up as it was going on and on, but I realized when he walked back the other way that he was a guard and not a music director. I would have been extremely frustrated spiritually if I went to Mass with that chaotic and dissonant music. I think what this is turning into here is not a discussion about the music selections but a drawing of sides on positions completely unrelated. Everyone who dares question the music must be a traditionalist on the verge of schisiming if anything newer than 1750 is used while anyone who dares to like the music or focus on other aspects must be a modern heretic dressed in the garb of a cafeteria Catholic who has no sense of history, liturgy, or music.
That isn’t true, and I’m just one example. Instead of attacking the messenger and his other positions, it would be good to see an attempt to discuss the actual issue at hand.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
Indeed, and there has been much good music written since 1750 which I’ve sung. It doesn’t all have to be a’strummin’ and a’grinnin’ music, “I’m OK; you’re OK let’s focus on the Eucharist” music. We have 1500 years of music from which to draw - across ethnic boundaries. Face it, we threw out the baby with the bathwater 40 years ago. Fifteen hundred years of glorious Catholic music has been replaced by music that even 40 years ago would not have been heard in a Protestant church. “I’m OK; you’re OK” lets sing sacro-salsa and sacro-pop and all be friends.
The Vesper Service stands in stark contrast to the Mass. Once, all Catholics all over the world could have sung the chants used and responded to the prayers offered in Latin. I remember those days and have not forgotten them. If I want to hear Protestant praise and worship music, I can go right down the road to my neighbor’s church. There were an awful lot of us left behind 40 years ago and now you are hearing our voices.
The Vesper Service stands in stark contrast to the Mass. Once, all Catholics all over the world could have sung the chants used and responded to the prayers offered in Latin. I remember those days and have not forgotten them. If I want to hear Protestant praise and worship music, I can go right down the road to my neighbor’s church. There were an awful lot of us left behind 40 years ago and now you are hearing our voices.
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