Music

[benedictgal]

It’s not that I don’t understand, it’s that I have a different interpretation than you. The GIRM opens the door a little for instruments to be used in moderation, that’s all. As stated earlier, the GIRM specifically omits Advent while mentioning Lent regarding this. Doesn’t that tell you something?

I used to work for several members of the Texas House of Representatives. I have found loopholes, closed them and drafted them. Loopholes are great for circumventing the tax man, but, not for liturgy.

Please don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to be disrespectful to neither you nor the other posters, but, it seems to me that if you can’t sing the Gloria during Advent (unless it’s the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception or, as in the case in deep South Texas, the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe), the change in season should signal that things are different.

My concern is that Musicam Sacram is pretty clear about what can and cannot be done during these seasons. Why not use that as a basic rule of thumb instead of trying to find a loophole?

 

[brotherhrolf]

Aw, geese y’all! My local geographic parish still sings “Prepare Ye the Way of the Lord” from Godspell for Advent. My cathedral choir does otherwise even when we sing for the downtown choir festival (which the Episcopalians won’t participate in because it is Advent). So, we sing Advent carols… There is a plentitude of Advent choral music out there.

 

[CantorumNovum]

So, are you saying that Musica Sacram is to be ignored? The GIRM doesn’t explicitly declare that solos should be played. Musica Sacram is more explicit. One doesn’t cancel out the other.

I find it a little puzzling that everyone on this thread is ignoring Sing to the Lord, the new guidelines on music put out by the USCCB. It is a wonderful document, and draws heaviliy on MS. It also (wonderfully) supercedes Music in Catholic Worship and Liturgical Music Today.

Any interested can find the document at:
usccb.org/liturgy/SingToTheLord.pdf

A quote from the preface:
Sing to the Lord: Music in Divine Worship, a revision of Music in Catholic Worship, was developed by the Committee on Divine Worship of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). On November 14, 2007, the Latin Church members of the USCCB approved these guidelines. These guidelines are designed to provide direction to those preparing for the
celebration of the Sacred Liturgy according to the current liturgical books (in the ordinary form of celebration).

Well worth a read!

 

[LighthouseRon]

I used to work for several members of the Texas House of Representatives. I have found loopholes, closed them and drafted them. Loopholes are great for circumventing the tax man, but, not for liturgy.

Please don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to be disrespectful to neither you nor the other posters, but, it seems to me that if you can’t sing the Gloria during Advent (unless it’s the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception or, as in the case in deep South Texas, the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe), the change in season should signal that things are different.

My concern is that Musicam Sacram is pretty clear about what can and cannot be done during these seasons. Why not use that as a basic rule of thumb instead of trying to find a loophole?

Let me say that I’m not looking for a way to circumvent the Musicam Sacram nor find a loophole. I’m simply interpreting the more recent GIRM and how it relates to instruments during Advent. No one is denying there is a significant change when Advent arrives, that’s obvious. Nor is anyone saying that the music shouldn’t be more solemn and the instruments need to be especially “in the background” if you will. All I’m saying is the GIRM opens the door a little for moderation.

We could continue to go back and forth but I really think neither one of us is going to change the other’s opinion, and I really don’t want this to turn from spirited discussion to anything less, so I won’t continue other than to say I will follow my pastor’s lead on things such as this, and thank you for the discussion.

 

[benedictgal]

I find it a little puzzling that everyone on this thread is ignoring Sing to the Lord, the new guidelines on music put out by the USCCB. It is a wonderful document, and draws heaviliy on MS. It also (wonderfully) supercedes Music in Catholic Worship and Liturgical Music Today.

Any interested can find the document at:
usccb.org/liturgy/SingToTheLord.pdf

A quote from the preface:
Sing to the Lord: Music in Divine Worship, a revision of Music in Catholic Worship, was developed by the Committee on Divine Worship of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). On November 14, 2007, the Latin Church members of the USCCB approved these guidelines. These guidelines are designed to provide direction to those preparing for the
celebration of the Sacred Liturgy according to the current liturgical books (in the ordinary form of celebration).

Well worth a read!

Sing to the Lord, while it is a document of the USCCB, does not carry the same weight as the GIRM or Musicam Sacram. That is because it does not have the recogitio from the Holy See. In other words, it is not binding like the aforementioned documents.

The original intent of Sing to the Lord was to have the liturgical music used in the United States conform to Liturgiam Authenticam, but, special interest groups launched a lobbying effort and the document did not pass by the votes necessary to submit it to Rome for the recognitio from the Holy See.

I do not want to get into arguments with folks, especially right before Advent. I have not had much sleep today because one of my dachshunds is dying and I was up every hour on the hour tending to him. So, if I sounded cranky and grouchy, I hope you understand.

Interestingly enough, I attended a somewhat theologically liberal parish in Central Texas. However, when it came to the issue of music, as strange as it may seem, they were fairly traditional to the point of zero instrumental solos during Advent and Lent. We also employed that same practice at the Cathedral down here, until the new administrator decided to bring in Mariachis and everything went downhill.

I just believe that we need to retain our penitential seasons. Reminding people that this is not Christmas yet (and, it is rather disheartening to hear Christmas carols played on the local Catholic station) and teaching them the traditional Advent hymns should encourage the faithful to really understand what this season is about. Hymns like Creator of the Stars of Night and even For You O Lord, My Soul in Stillness Waits (yes, it’s a Haugen song, but, he has one or two that could pass muster) really drive home the point. We used to sing these hymns during the Offertory and even The King Shall Come When Morning Dawns worked out really well.

My dachshund is asleep so I will take a breather.

 

[CantorumNovum]

Sing to the Lord, while it is a document of the USCCB, does not carry the same weight as the GIRM or Musicam Sacram. That is because it does not have the recogitio from the Holy See. In other words, it is not binding like the aforementioned documents.

The original intent of Sing to the Lord was to have the liturgical music used in the United States conform to Liturgiam Authenticam, but, special interest groups launched a lobbying effort and the document did not pass by the votes necessary to submit it to Rome for the recognitio from the Holy See.

I do not want to get into arguments with folks, especially right before Advent. I have not had much sleep today because one of my dachshunds is dying and I was up every hour on the hour tending to him. So, if I sounded cranky and grouchy, I hope you understand.

Interestingly enough, I attended a somewhat theologically liberal parish in Central Texas. However, when it came to the issue of music, as strange as it may seem, they were fairly traditional to the point of zero instrumental solos during Advent and Lent. We also employed that same practice at the Cathedral down here, until the new administrator decided to bring in Mariachis and everything went downhill.

I just believe that we need to retain our penitential seasons. Reminding people that this is not Christmas yet (and, it is rather disheartening to hear Christmas carols played on the local Catholic station) and teaching them the traditional Advent hymns should encourage the faithful to really understand what this season is about. Hymns like Creator of the Stars of Night and even For You O Lord, My Soul in Stillness Waits (yes, it’s a Haugen song, but, he has one or two that could pass muster) really drive home the point. We used to sing these hymns during the Offertory and even The King Shall Come When Morning Dawns worked out really well.

My dachshund is asleep so I will take a breather.

Regardless, Sing to the Lord is written for the contemporary Church. MS is not. It is so clearly written from the perspective of the Tridentine rite. I’m not arguing that it is not law, but that STL, which basically follows MS, and departs radically from Music in Catholic Worship and Liturgical Music Today and is written with contemporary issues in mind. No document is flawless, not even a Roman one, but STL, as it’s written, would provide, IMHO a far more useful guide for the great numbers of Pastoral Musicians who are not as well versed in the documents as you would be. That’s all I was trying to say.

 

[Phemie]

Actually, we don’t have a contradiction because the GIRM does not explicitly say that instrumental solos can take place during Advent. Musica Sacram has not been abrogated nor should it be tossed aside.

But apparently “The Ceremonial of Bishops” does say that solo organ during Advent is OK. I don’t happen to have a copy handy, but if someone could verify that it would be nice to know that something official post-Musica Sacram speaks on the topic.

 

[benedictgal]

Regardless, Sing to the Lord is written for the contemporary Church. MS is not. It is so clearly written from the perspective of the Tridentine rite. I’m not arguing that it is not law, but that STL, which basically follows MS, and departs radically from Music in Catholic Worship and Liturgical Music Today and is written with contemporary issues in mind. No document is flawless, not even a Roman one, but STL, as it’s written, would provide, IMHO a far more useful guide for the great numbers of Pastoral Musicians who are not as well versed in the documents as you would be. That’s all I was trying to say.

Unfortunately, Sing to the Lord has some flaws to it, including the section concerning trophes in the Agnus Dei. Nonetheless, the issue with STL is that it is not a regulatory document, given the fact that it does not have recogitio from Rome. Furthermore, Music in Catholic Worship and Liturgical Music Today were also in the same boat. They are merely teaching documents that do not carry much weight. They are simply recommendations.

The Holy See is expected to come out with a document on music early next year. I am awaiting to see what that will say.

As for the playing of solos, I think that MS should be followed. I have yet to see what the Ceremonial for Bishops says on the matter.

By the way, my little dachshund died this afternoon. We just buried him a little while ago. :sad_yes:

 

[Phemie]

By the way, my little dachshund died this afternoon. We just buried him a little while ago. :sad_yes:

I’m sorry, I know you must be in pain since losing a pet is very difficult. :console: :hug3:

 

[benedictgal]

I’m sorry, I know you must be in pain since losing a pet is very difficult. :console: :hug3:

Thank you, Phemie. It was hard as I had never had anyone or anything die in front of me. But, he has now crossed the “rainbow bridge.”

 

[LighthouseRon]

I’m sorry, I know you must be in pain since losing a pet is very difficult. :console: :hug3:

Please accept my condolences. I was there when I lost my sweet Rotty recently. It really hurts.

Ron

 

[LighthouseRon]

By the way, my little dachshund died this afternoon. We just buried him a little while ago. :sad_yes:

Please accept my condolences. I was with my very sweet Rotty when she died recently. It hurts very much.

Take care,

Ron

 

[Jean_Anthony]

With all due respect for those who have lost beloved pets, please continue that discussion in another thread in the appropriate forum. Thank you all.