Musical Instruments in Mass

[po18guy]

GiftofMercy:

The harpist is currently a rare breed.

Probably due to that Christmas song . . . “Strike the harpist from the chorus, fa-la-la-la-la, la la law law.”

What? I thought it was:

“Deck us all with Boston Charlie, Walla Walla Wash. and Kalamazoo”

Apologies to Walt Kelly (RIP)

 

[dochawk]

With no harpists left, changes just had to be made . . .

:crazy_face:

 

[po18guy]

With no harpists left, changes just had to be made . . .

:crazy_face:

Let’s see, there was Groucho, Chico, Zeppo and Harpist?

 

[dochawk]

Yeah, something Gummo’d up the works.


(Harpo was one of the top two or so harpists of his era

 

[po18guy]

Now I understand what our Lord said about a millstone around one’s neck…

 

[GiftofMercy]

Probably due to that Christmas song . . . “Strike the harpist from the chorus, fa-la-la-la-la, la la law law.”

Looks shocked, shows this to her very accomplished harpist friend who replies, Hawkish!

 

[Gertabelle]

If we’re going to be biblical literalists about it, why don’t we advocate for the harp, not the guitar?

We’d better start praying for a financial miracle if we’re going to advocate for harps to take the place of guitars.

My made-to-order, left-handed classical guitar cost my just over $400 US a few years ago.

A used pedal harp in working order will cost you upwards of $15,000 - $20,000 US. New pedal harps are astronomically more expensive. A harpist also needs a vehicle capable of transporting their instrument. And the pedal harp is a difficult instrument to learn and to play.

Have you taken organ lessons so you could play for Mass? If you have children, are they taking organ lessons?

An excellent question! Gold star!

An organ is not the same as a piano. And knowing how to play the piano does not mean one can simply pop onto the organ bench and play well. We’ve had plenty of people try it at my parish, and it’s been disastrous.

I had a few years of piano lessons growing up, and kept playing over the decades. I’m a fairly good pianist.

When I was 19 – back when dinosaurs roamed the earth – I entered a monastery and was taught how to accompany the hours on the organ. It was very simple stuff. After a few months, I was told I needed to learn a few hymns, including the pedal parts. A few months later, I was given some actual organ music to try to learn. I was awful at first, but cloistered nuns are a committed lot, so eventually I did improve.

The only reason I can actually play the organ is because of my two years in the monastery. I didn’t have actual lessons, but I did have a community that supported my efforts and loved me through my mistakes.

Most parish organists nowadays have no formal training in how to play the organ. We choose our stops through trial and error, we clumsily learn to play the pedals – but becoming decent at that can take years and years.

It’s ridiculous to ask why we HAVE to use pianos at mass when the organ is simply not an instrument most people have access to learning and practicing.

Personally, I’m a trained singer (Bachelor of Music in voice), not a trained pianist or organist. But since no one else is even trying to learn, I’m usually sitting silently at the organ bench when I’m in the choir loft.

 

[GiftofMercy]

And a standup organ is different to a Pipe Organ. Both need training.

 

[CRV]

Musicae Sacrae On Sacred Music Pope Pius XII Encyclical Promulgated on December 25, 1955

Instruction on Sacred Music and Sacred Liturgy Published by the Sacred Congregation for Rites – September 3, 1958

At my parish we have used an automatic organ , which under #71 is forbidden , though now we are blessed to have a marvellous organ and organist for our Mass.

MUSICAM SACRAM INSTRUCTION ON MUSIC IN THE LITURGY 5 March, 1967

 

[dochawk]

Looks shocked, shows this to her very accomplished harpist friend who replies, Hawkish!

we try.

But are we just going to keep harping about this until someone accuses us of lyreing?

 

[Peeps]

After many years of listening to pianos at Mass, I have come to despise them. Trying to discern why, I have concluded that it is their percussive nature and the way they are used to accompany. The percussive attack of every note & chord tends to obscure the syllables, making it very difficult to understand the words being sung. And most piano-playing I have heard at Masses is just too danged busy, swarming over the singing like gnats. I would not have said this years ago, but I would prefer guitar to piano now. Of course, organ is better than either.

You haven’t heard me play the piano at Mass.

Do you realize that many people reading this thread are pianists who volunteer their time and face down their “nerves” to substitute for the music minister and play at Mass, knowing that there are people like you out in the congregation hating what we are doing?

It hurts to read this. It makes me feel like doing what most of the other pianists in our parish of several thousand people do–say, “No,” when they are asked to play for Mass. Just stick with playing for community theater and secular choirs and accompanying kids at contests and auditions.

Two weekends ago, I played for three different Masses at my parish on a Sunday. That’s a lot of time out of my Sunday, and I work full time in a hospital and put in double shifts, too. I also had to spend a couple of hours during the week preparing the music (mainly making sure I had all of it), and I had to be at Masses 45 minutes early to get my music set up and run through the Psalm with the cantor.

Of course, that time given to the Lord and His Church will be more than repaid in eternity when My Lord smiles and tells me, “Well done, good and faithful servant!” (At least, that’s my hope!)

I would like to suggest to those of you who “despise” any instrument used in your parish’s Mass that you please consider that real people, your fellow parishioners, are doing the work of playing those instruments, and we’re doing the very best that we are capable of doing as part-time musicians who also work at other jobs and/or are raising families. I would like to suggest that you implore the Lord to soften your heart and help you to get to a place where you can recognize that music done for the Lord’s Glory is not something that should be despised, but appreciated.

And if you can’t get to that place, then try this–go up to the pianist after Mass and tell him/her, “I despise the piano,” and watch their face. Then tell them again, although I’m betting that when you see those tears, you won’t be able to ever say that again either to their face or in the privacy of your own mind.

I would rather you tell me to my face than sit out in the pews and hate my music. Do you think I can’t sense it? It’s awful to sit up there on the piano bench and know that there are people like you out there. I try very hard to play in such a way that even the hardest heart is touched , but I leave every Mass wondering if I am just a crazy nutcase for agreeing to substitute for the music minister–and do it WITHOUT PAY!!!

(continued next post)

 

[Peeps]

(continued from last post)

Another suggestion that I would respectfully and in complete seriousness make to you and others who feel the way you do is to offer a scholarship to a young person in your parish to pay for them learn to play the organ. When I was taking organ lessons a few years ago (I took lessons for five years), I payed my teacher $260/month. I had to get out of work early to get to my parish on time, but usually I was only allowed to practice a few times a week, as there were always activities going on in the nave (e.g., funerals, wedding rehearsals, meetings, etc.) that prevented me from practicing. Thankfully a kind older organist allowed me to practice on the organ in her Lutheran church and I actually had a key to get in when I had the time–that was very helpful! Eventually, my brother bought me an electric organ for my home ($3500), and that was wonderful, but it’s definitely not the same as the huge pipe organ in my parish.

So if you paid for a young person to take lessons, the above description will give you an idea of what it will cost you, but plan on at least 10 years, probably more.

I’m dead serious about providing scholarships. Many families can’t begin to afford organ lessons for a child.

Thankfully, many of the parishioners in my parish are kind and thoughtful, and tell me that they love my music and love hearing the piano at Mass. I also play organ, but I’m not good enough and I don’t have enough time to practice on the parish pipe organ (by the time I get off work, the parish is closed) to be able to play organ for the entire Mass. I also think that the more modern songs sound better when accompanied by the piano. (We do a mix of traditional and “modern” hymns in our parish at the Masses.)

Thank you for at least thinking about this post.

 

[BartholomewB]

Thank you, @Peeps.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

I’m a trained singer (Bachelor of Music in voice)

What’s your highest note?

 

[CRV]

Whilst I can’t speak for anyone else on this site, nor in your own parish, I can convey my own opinion.

I thank you and every lady or gent who does play the organ or piano at Mass.

I appreciate the sacrifices you make regarding your time so we may have the benefit of hymns accompanied by musical instrument/s. I am friends with the lady at my parish who does play at Mass, for funerals, though not sure about weddings and I know how often she is at Church for these ceremonies as well as time spent in practice at the Church. It is just a standard type organ as in it is not one of those huge pipe organs which my Cathedral has.

I personally don’t object to the choice of hymns at my parish nor to the person playing. I enjoy and love both and benefit from both.

I personally just don’t like pianos playing hymns at Mass, nor do I like drums or guitars. But if that is all there is, then I accept that, but that doesn’t mean I don’t wish we had an organ instead for the ladies/gents to play on.

Outside of Mass I love the piano, and being poor growing up my parents could not afford lessons for me, let alone buy a second hand piano, so sadly I never learned to play.

For those who have that talent - thanks be to God for that gift and the willingness and desires of these people to utilize their talents in the praise and worship of God and of course we benefit too.

I would hope that peoples dislike is not for the person playing but solely the dislike for the instrument being played.

 

[CTBcin]

An organ is not the same as a piano. And knowing how to play the piano does not mean one can simply pop onto the organ bench and play well. We’ve had plenty of people try it at my parish, and it’s been disastrous.

Definitely! I took piano lessons growing up, which certainly did make it easier to transition to the organ, particularly knowing how to read music and how a keyboard works. But I didn’t become good at the organ till I started taking organ lessons and learning the proper technique, both with the hands and the pedalwork with the feet. Then there’s understanding how the stops work. There’s a lot to learn and much of the technique is fundamentally different from the piano.

 

[Gertabelle]

Gertabelle:

I’m a trained singer (Bachelor of Music in voice)

What’s your highest note?

That’s such an odd question.

I’m a classically-trained mezzo soprano.

I have a very strong low range, down to F or E below middle C. In my younger days I could sing up to a high C, but only when very, very warmed up. Nowadays, high A flat is probably the highest I could go when very, very, very warmed up.

In the real world of community and church choirs, I sing soprano, or alto if no one else can do it.

In classical singing groups, I sing second soprano or first alto.

 

[Gertabelle]

Definitely! I took piano lessons growing up, which certainly did make it easier to transition to the organ, particularly knowing how to read music and how a keyboard works. But I didn’t become good at the organ till I started taking organ lessons and learning the proper technique, both with the hands and the pedalwork with the feet. Then there’s understanding how the stops work. There’s a lot to learn and much of the technique is fundamentally different from the piano.

My years as a dancer helped me with the pedals – that and simply being told to use heel-toe-heel-toe on consecutive notes.

The strangest adjustment for me when playing the organ is having to sustain notes manually. If it’s a half note, you have to hold the key down for two beats. I’ve gotten really good at switching fingers in order to sustain notes while the other fingers play something else.

This past year in my free time, I’ve started playing solo piano pieces instead of “functional music” (i.e., accompaniments for my students and hymns for church). I have fallen in love with the music of J.S. Bach, most of which I play without the damper pedal.

Turns out, some of that music sounds excellent on the organ! :+1:t4:

Who knows? I might end up being a real organist before I die!

 

[Peeps]

I would hope that peoples dislike is not for the person playing but solely the dislike for the instrument being played.

But for those of us who play, those “despised instruments” are part of who WE are.

I can’t imagine not playing piano. I play almost every day of my life, and have done so since I was a child. Many people at church don’t even realize that I have a full-time job that isn’t musical (I work in a hospital microbiology lab.).

It’s very hard for me to separate a dislike or hatred of my instrument from a dislike or hatred of me. I would not want to spend a lot of time with people who hate the piano.

 

[Phemie]

A church musician told me several years ago that, while guitars are ubiquitous, most of the hymns they usually accompany were written for piano. None were written for organ.

I remember doing a liturgy preparation program and the instruments used in worship in the chapel there were organ and piano. Any traditional hymn used was accompanied by the organ, more recently written stuff was accompanied by the piano.