Muslim bigotry

[dzheremi]

We have already learned all we need to understand about Islam from the witness of our holy martyrs and saints forged in the crucible of Islamic domination of Christian societies. The need for education is now on the other side, and no Christian priest can be found in the parking lots of mosques educating eager Muslims or their leaders. Any attempts at “education” by Muslims or Imams, as they are nothing but stealth proselytizing under the noses of naive and ignorant Christians. Do not attend or support them.

I fully believe that any Christian caught supporting or attending such meetings ought to be excommunicated on the spot. What accord has Christ with Belial, or a believer with an unbeliever?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well don’t excommunicate me just yet, Jeremy, I didn’t go! LOL

We have already learned all we need to understand about Islam from the witness of our holy martyrs and saints forged in the crucible of Islamic domination of Christian societies. The need for education is now on the other side, and no Christian priest can be found in the parking lots of mosques educating eager Muslims or their leaders. Any attempts at “education” by Muslims or Imams, as they are nothing but stealth proselytizing under the noses of naive and ignorant Christians. Do not attend or support them.

I fully believe that any Christian caught supporting or attending such meetings ought to be excommunicated on the spot. What accord has Christ with Belial, or a believer with an unbeliever?

 

[dzheremi]

Haha. I wouldn’t worry…something tells me I lost my magic excommunicating powers when I willingly placed myself outside of the Catholic Church…

And of course you didn’t go! You’re trying to actually be a Catholic.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well I go the same church I been going to since I was Baptized. Its a Polish Catholic Church. St Michaels and its like day and night from my wifes. Its been there since the 1800’s also and the Priests come from Poland. And the VFW is across the street. So there not just Catholics but Vets also.

I go with her to Holy Rosary now and then, But thats the type of thing I expect there.

Depends where you go without a doubt.

You can get a watered down message now, They have one for you. You can also get hard cold truth if you look.

If I miss mass at St Michaels the Priest will say " I didn’t see you at mass last week" ?

I would look into the different churchs for sure.

 

[Bwtby]

We have already learned all we need to understand about Islam from the witness of our holy martyrs and saints forged in the crucible of Islamic domination of Christian societies. The need for education is now on the other side, and no Christian priest can be found in the parking lots of mosques educating eager Muslims or their leaders. Any attempts at “education” by Muslims or Imams, as they are nothing but stealth proselytizing under the noses of naive and ignorant Christians. Do not attend or support them.

I fully believe that any Christian caught supporting or attending such meetings ought to be excommunicated on the spot. What accord has Christ with Belial, or a believer with an unbeliever?

Excommunicating Priests on the spot? …Because they are promoting a dialogue about interfaith?!

Hmm, I have to disagree.

By the way, I recently made a comment about excommunicating a Priest because I felt he was also making a mockery of the Church, and it didn’t go so smooth… at all.

 

[dzheremi]

Yes. They are endorsing and allowing that their faithful be educated by Islamic leaders on the Christ-denying blasphemy that is Islam, which inherently compromises Christian truth. That education, since it comes from a leader of Muhammad’s vile heresy, will do nothing to bolster the Christian faith of anyone involved, therefore it ought not be supported by a Christian, priest or not. You can work for better interfaith relations without compromising your faith, if you care to do so. Sometimes it does not seem as though the Catholic Church cares to do so.

I see it as not significantly different than taking communion at a church outside of your own communion, as communion – like the support and propagation of a religion – requires shared faith. In all orthodox churches, partaking outside of your communion incurs excommunication in the absence of very specific and difficult circumstances. There are no comparable extenuating circumstances that might excuse Christians supporting the spread of Islam in any way, shape or form, and there never will be.

 

[JaredM]

More like bigotry towards Muslims. I am right?

Most of the Muslims that come over to the USA are moderate liberal Muslims. Yes there are a few bad apples but that doesn’t mean all Muslims are bad.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

More like bigotry towards Muslims. I am right?

Most of the Muslims that come over to the USA are moderate liberal Muslims. Yes there are a few bad apples but that doesn’t mean all Muslims are bad.

How do you know that the Muslims that come over here are mostly “modearte liberal Muslims?”

How have you determined that?

 

[Sufjon]

I don’t buy that view. It has a superficial take on human reality. People do not need the existence of bad things to savor good things.

This is a Hollywood myth, in my opinion. Or, perhaps the real source is gothic-style Romanticism.

One can eat a lot of white bread sandwiches, be bored silly gastronomically, and then really savor a Thai meal. You don’t need opposites to know what’s good.

Dear Captain America: I am not at all surprised.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[Tsuwano]

You have said that one culture (yours) offers religious freedom and the other culture comes among you demanding the same, while not offering the same in their own lands. Who is diminished by that? The one who gives or the one who takes? It would seem that the ones who take and don’t reciprocate by doing the same in their own lands are diminished, but this too is false. In serving as an example of how not to be, they are your teachers, and in being such, they have served an equal purpose. Perhaps it would be best to simply take advantage of the opportunity, learn something, and move on.

Your friend,
Sufjon

Dear Sufjon, You are correct in stating that the one who takes is more diminished in the eyes of God than he who gives. You are also correct in your view that he who takes is also a teacher in that he teaches us how not to act before God and others. But you are mistaken in thinking that he who is righteous can merely learn something from he who is not and simply move on. After all, righteousness is born in love for brothers and sisters, even when they are in the wrong, and the righteous are obligated by the truth to point out the errors of the unrighteous and to call them to conversion. To simply move on, unmindful that those brothers and sisters stand before God in sin, without attempting to point out that sin, is wrong and does not reveal the love that we should hold for all. Christians are bound by their love for God to point out to their Muslim brothers and sisters that certain kinds of behavior, in this case the persecution of minority Christians in Muslim communites, fall far from the relationship that God has called his people to, just as Muslims are obligated to point out the failings of Christians when they fail to live out the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Tsuwano]

In America the mentality is to wipe out religious expression completely. Atheists don’t want Christianity expressed, Christians don’t want Islam expressed.

I do not believe this is a correct view of what is happening in America. I spent years studying theology and religion. During those years we spent many evenings with the Imams from the Muslim community in Chicago learning about Islam. They spent many evenings with us learning and talking about Christ. This was true with the Jewish community and other faith communities as well. I believe your post is an expression of fear and bigotry and not based in experience. At least, it doesn’t represent my experience with the Muslim and other faith communities I came in contact with in America.

 

[Tsuwano]

Today at the end of Mass, monsignor was reading the bulletin to us, “today in the park hall we’ll be having a long presentation from an Islamic imam called “Understanding Islam” you’re all invited to come!”

HUH?

It was a good thing for the monsignor to invite parishoners to try and understand Islam. It is a sign that he takes the Christian faith of his parishoners seriously and that he views them as mature in their faith and not mere children who will be swayed merely by exposure to people who believe differently. It is a sign that he believes the Holy Spirit dwells among the people of his parish and will guide them in correct understanding of God’s presence among his people. It is a sign that he believes his parishoners are generous, open minded, thoughtful and welcoming to those who are different. It is a sign that he believes that Christ dwells among his people and that they reflect the spirit of Christ in their relationships with others. You should rejoice that your monsignor views the parish is this way. He is not afraid to expose the Christian faith of his parishoners to others and neither should you.

 

[Tsuwano]

We have already learned all we need to understand about Islam from the witness of our holy martyrs and saints forged in the crucible of Islamic domination of Christian societies. The need for education is now on the other side, and no Christian priest can be found in the parking lots of mosques educating eager Muslims or their leaders. Any attempts at “education” by Muslims or Imams, as they are nothing but stealth proselytizing under the noses of naive and ignorant Christians. Do not attend or support them.

I fully believe that any Christian caught supporting or attending such meetings ought to be excommunicated on the spot. What accord has Christ with Belial, or a believer with an unbeliever?

Your response in the first paragraph shows me that you have not learned all you need to know about Islam and the people who profess that faith. Your second paragraph shows me that you have not learned enough about the Gospel of Christ and the relationship that Jesus calls us to forge with those who are different from us.

 

[Tsuwano]

Haha. I wouldn’t worry…something tells me I lost my magic excommunicating powers when I willingly placed myself outside of the Catholic Church…

And of course you didn’t go! You’re trying to actually be a Catholic.

Attempting to live a full Catholic life and hoping to understand the faith of others are not mutually exclusive. Love and devotion to my Christian faith compels me to seek a relationship with those who believe differently from me if only to live the Gospel of Jesus before them. Shunning people of other faiths is not what Jesus did in his own ministry or what the disciples did when they went out into the world to preach the Gospel.

 

[Tsuwano]

How do you know that the Muslims that come over here are mostly “modearte liberal Muslims?”

How have you determined that?

Yes, well, how have you determined otherwise? Considering the number of Muslim immigrants to America and the number that proved themselves unworthy of being admitted to this country, I would say the odds are that most of them are indeed politically moderate Muslims.

 

[Tsuwano]

More like bigotry towards Muslims. I am right?

Most of the Muslims that come over to the USA are moderate liberal Muslims. Yes there are a few bad apples but that doesn’t mean all Muslims are bad.

In my opinion, you are right. There is a lot of bigotry present in this thread.

 

[GaryTaylor]

In my opinion, you are right. There is a lot of bigotry present in this thread.

I hear what your saying but I disagree. This a war of good and evil. Thats the history of mankind.

Its a given that there are good muslims who are mislead in there idea of religion, since their Faith cannot produce salvation. Denial of Jesus Christ as Savior is a fatal clause since this is His Kingdom.

To keep an open line of communication is all well and fine. But the truth must also be taught in Catholic Churchs. There are not many path’s to God which is a proposed theory of modern man. Their is one path to salvation. And thats Jesus Christ. We have Catholics who don’t understand or believe that today. So should we then teach them the Islamic view?

For a Catholic Church to say, we should embrace all our brothers, as Christ would want? Is all well and fine. But it also must be taught exactly what the NT Gospel is teaching in accordence with salvation and Catholic history. Islam is a Christian heresy and that is the Truth. Once followers of Jesus Christ are educated and clearly understand their own faith, then to embrace other faiths is all well and fine. But you must first understand the “truth” first. Then to embrace interfaith dialogue is fine.

But to not clearly understand your own faith and welcome Islam as your brothers? Thats a road to tragedy.

What I’m saying is lets clearly put the Truth up for all to see. Catholics and Christains been working in the far edges of Islamic countrys for centurys. But they clearly understand what they are dealing with.

Because of the situation of the CC today we don’t have the Catholic Schools run by Sisters as in the past. Many can’t afford Catholic teaching and attend public schools. As a result their understanding of Christianity itself becomes limited. These are the very people who easily convert to Islam. Who fall by the wayside without constant prayer and church. You cannot know Jesus Christ and covert to Islam, its impossible.

I have worked with Muslims and have no-issues with this nor am I a racist. But the truth needs to be taught in the Churchs “first”. And the message needs to be clear. Untill these sheep can truly embrace a Christain lifestyle they are not ready to deal with islam and that idealism or interfaith actions. Time does that and being rooted in Christ

When did you begin to meet with Muslims? In college, after how many years of Christain teaching?

You must be rooted in faith first. I know nothing but this faith. I couldn’t tell you something else if I tried. Its not in my knowledge. But this isn’t the case with the recent increase in the Catholic Church. Combine that with Vaticvan II teaching and we have a problem. And it needs to be addressed.

Islam needs to be clearly defined by the Catholic Church and that is my stance. And I don’t believe we are doing a good enough job of this with the amount of converts to Islam I see.

I’m sorry I disagree with you. I listened to Pope JP-II and Benedict and I clearly understand Assisi. Nonetheless we are not speaking the truth and are avoiding the issue of Islam in early Catholic teaching and its creating confusion later down the road. And this doesn’t best serve our Church or its followers.

When there is a mixed message given, then that mixed message is left to the listener to define. Then problems occur. I’ve never seen this in Catholic teaching. This was unheard of when I grew up.

God Bless, Gary

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I don’t appreciate this at all. Your wording creates a phobia on my part, a hysteria and lunacy that is not deserved. I am not “afraid to expose the Christian faith” to others. I resent that comment. I am not “afraid” of anything. What concerns me is not our exposure to others but the exposure of Islam to us. We don’t need to have classes at a CATHOLIC parish on Islam. We need classes on Christ Jesus and His Church! With all the poor catechesis, misinformation being heard by Catholics, need for freshening our faith and the need to get to know Our Saviour in a deeper way, why in the world would we be giving time in our parish hall to Muslims? If Muslims want to teach us about their faith, they can do so at a mosque and invite us over there. Do you seriously think the Lord Jesus would want us teaching about a religious that butchers Christianity, teaches a false salvation history, minimizes the Lord to just a prophet, and actually teaches that Christians will be judged to hell by Jesus Himself? Should we really be using this valuable time in our parish hall for Islamic understanding? NONSENSE. Please don’t try to warp my concerns into hysterics. Thanks and God bless.

It was a good thing for the monsignor to invite parishoners to try and understand Islam. It is a sign that he takes the Christian faith of his parishoners seriously and that he views them as mature in their faith and not mere children who will be swayed merely by exposure to people who believe differently. It is a sign that he believes the Holy Spirit dwells among the people of his parish and will guide them in correct understanding of God’s presence among his people. It is a sign that he believes his parishoners are generous, open minded, thoughtful and welcoming to those who are different. It is a sign that he believes that Christ dwells among his people and that they reflect the spirit of Christ in their relationships with others. You should rejoice that your monsignor views the parish is this way. He is not afraid to expose the Christian faith of his parishoners to others and neither should you.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Examples???

In my opinion, you are right. There is a lot of bigotry present in this thread.

 

[dzheremi]

What concerns me is not our exposure to others but the exposure of Islam to us. We don’t need to have classes at a CATHOLIC parish on Islam. We need classes on Christ Jesus and His Church! With all the poor catechesis, misinformation being heard by Catholics, need for freshening our faith and the need to get to know Our Saviour in a deeper way, why in the world would we be giving time in our parish hall to Muslims?

Exactly! Y’see, this guy gets it.

Look, folks, you have two choices as to how you run your churches: Proclaim your OWN FAITH (Christianity) to your people and others as ABSOLUTELY RIGHT and the incontrovertible truth of GOD – or – invite others to corrupt it for the good of their own sick teachings, such as Islam, secular humanism, Buddhism, or whatever else is out there. Nobody is “afraid” of Islam, but you have no one but yourselves to blame if you stage events like this “Let a Muslim Imam ‘educate’ you on Islam” (a.k.a. proselytize you with the blessing of your own parish priest) and then, NOT coincidentally, begin to see a weakening of faith and eventually desertion of Christ for some of this other garbage you have let into your community. There is NO excuse for it. The Church is NOT a democracy in which everyone has an equal voice. Malignancies such as Islam must be shut out, and Christ must be the focus and the authority. Give yourselves over, even for a minute, to anyone else and you aren’t preaching Christianity anymore. Islam belongs in mosques, NOT in churches.

For God’s sake (and, no, that is not taking the Lord’s name in vain, as this conversation is all about what we do for God’s sake), is modern Roman Catholicism so insanely relativistic and lukewarm that Christians should have to be reminded that CHRIST and ISLAM don’t mix, at all, ever? No wonder there is such a growth of agnosticism, atheism, Islam, and other Christ-denying heresy among ex-Catholics. Stand up for God. He certainly stood up for you at Golgotha.