Muslim converts to Christianity

[planten]

Pop singers do the same all the time, with phonetics (for that matter, so do opera singers, though most of them actually understand what they are singing).

But that may be at the most 100 lines or two hundred lines. The quetion here that of the bible. It is sure that there is no one who has memorised the bible. Q.E.D.

 

[planten]

What difference does it make what language? You know for a play I had to memorize a Chinese proverb in Chinese. I could do it, but I didn’t understand it. Better to understand what you memorize then to memorize in vain.

I would have to ask him before I gave out his e-mail. I don’t do that to my friends

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Good habit. It will absolve you from giving any proof too.

As far as a video online I am not sure if there is or not.

But here is the thing when the Muslim memorizes the Quran do they understand what they have memorized or is it just sounds to them? Also can they only recite it in order or if can you ask them a specific verse and they can go to it?

Some of them understand the meaning. Some do not understand the meaning of the verses.

The people I know can do it in order or if you ask a specific verse they can tell you what it says

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The language in which those christians memorised the bible is very important because bible is available in nealy all languages. We wish you had told about which language was memorised. But you have avoided it.

Do you have video of the muslims doing it?

There is no need of any video for that. Every one can see Quran being recited on the TV in ramadhan and other nights.

You still have not explained how this proves it is divine.

There is no need to prove it. The Quran is divine. The practice of saving the divine may also be fruitful / useful in the end.

If you want to see many people who have Shakespeare works memorized just go to a Shakespearean Festival they perform his plays and they people have it memorized word for word. To some it is a foreign language in that they were born all over the world. Tell me again how does memorization prove its divinity?

** I also hope that Shaikh spear is not divine. It appears that is more important than the bible.**

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

I would have to ask him before I gave out his e-mail.

ok . U may also confirm him if he can recite the **entire Bible from memory **like Muslims can recite Quran .

Even any ordinary non- Arab Muslim like me can recite say …100 verses verbatim .

Do you have video of the muslims doing it?

yap , many . InshaAllah i will look for it.

Can u watch Saudi TV or peace TV ? U may watch live telecast of prayer where Imams recite Quran from memory.

Also , u can go to any mosque now , u will see Imams are reciting the whole Quran from memory at night in Tarabi prayer ( special for Ramadan ).

You still have not explained how this proves it is divine.

earlier holy books were corrupted by men . Nobody memorised earlier books , no body could check who is changing which verse , who is adding what etc.

So God made the last holy book easy for memorising . Muslims memorised it since the beginning of the revealation . So , if anybody wants to change any single word ( no question of verse ) , Muslims will catch the culprit .

Now if Tsunami hits the world & all holy books are lost , only Muslims will be able to get their holy book back .

Also , dont’ u think it’s amazing that without understanding a foreign language ( just to know how to pronoune the words ) , non Arabs are memorising a book that has more than 6 thousands verses ?

 

[Angelos]

Please do not compare apples with oranges. I was comparing the common people with Jesus as a God, not Jesus as a prophet. Jesus said that he could not do anything of his own.

Actually, you are the one falling into the trap of false analogies while blaming Isa for faulty comparisons. You cannot rationally compare Jesus the God to mere humans before comparing Jesus the prophet to common people.

**
And you have got a mutiple nature of Jesus. That is against all sense. That is being used cleverly to cover up things on different sides. He is a man and a god. What a wrong idea? That is a bad basis to start with. All discussion fails with that belief at the base. We cannot allow that. Let him be a man or let him be a god and then come and discuss please.**

The Incarnation allows and commands us to believe that Jesus had two distinct natures. We do not need your comments for guidance.

Jesus is true man and true God, nothing wrong with that. Nothing is impossible to God. Besides, your Koran says angels would be turned into humans if they were sent as messengers:

Surah 6:8-9
They say: Why hath not an angel been sent down unto him ? If We sent down an angel, then the matter would be judged; no further time would be allowed them (for reflection). Had we appointed him (Our messenger) an angel, We assuredly had made him (as) a man (that he might speak to men); and (thus) obscured for them (the truth) they (now) obscure.

The Son came as a messenger and took human flesh. That’s so simple.

**
Next, I see a cow walking past. May i consider that may be god? And why not according to the principle of the church of multi-nature appearance of god in animal form?. jesus was an animal too.** How can the church explain all these things please?

You are dribbling your saliva now by slandering our faith and abusing Jesus, whom you supposedly consider a true messenger. Your post reveals the truth that Islam and Muslims actually hate Jesus even though they pretend to respect Him.

 

[inJESUS]

And Muslims are showing off about reciting a book as if it proves anything? that’s not too much, that’s pathetic…oh the ummah. the ummah…but you beat Mormons after all, Muhammas equalled each Quranic letter with a step to heaven…

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace

ok . U may also confirm him if he can recite the **entire Bible from memory **like Muslims can recite Quran .

Even any ordinary non- Arab Muslim like me can recite say …100 verses verbatim .

You are taking refuge in logical fallacies. Humans’ ability to memorise a text confirms neither its divine origin nor its preservation.

Muslims can recite the Koran today since they have the whole text as a checklist. However, they did not have the Koran as a complete book before Mohammad’s death! Thus, we cannot know for sure if those early Muslims were good at memorising and reciting the verses accurately. As I have already proved, there are many variations in certain repeated narratives of the Koran, which demonstrate that early Muslims did not memorise or recite an account identically. Another example:

Surah 20:38-39
When we inspired in thy mother that which is inspired, Saying: Throw him into the ark, and throw it into the river

Surah 28:7
And We inspired the mother of Moses, saying: Suckle him and, when thou fearest for him, then cast him into the river and fear not nor grieve.

One of the guys reciting chapter 28 somehow forgot that Allah had told Moses’ mother to put the baby into the ark before throwing him into the river.

earlier holy books were corrupted by men . Nobody memorised earlier books , no body could check who is changing which verse , who is adding what etc.

Our manuscript evidence debunks your false allegations.

Further, Islam can never prove that the modern Koran is the same book dictated by Mohammad. I doubt that Muslims memorised the verses correctly and did not pervert it through deliberate or acccidental additions/extractions.

So God made the last holy book easy for memorising . Muslims memorised it since the beginning of the revealation . So , if anybody wants to change any single word ( no question of verse ) , Muslims will catch the culprit .

What you are stating is contradictory. If the “last holy book” was made easy by God for memorisation, there is no use bragging about Muslims’ ability to recite the whole Koran by heart.

More, I still see many textual variations in the Koran, for all of which I blame the Muslims with short memory.

Also , dont’ u think it’s amazing that without understanding a foreign language ( just to know how to pronoune the words ) , non Arabs are memorising a book that has more than 6 thousands verses ?

I would call that act useless and meaningless rather than amazing. LOL

 

[KenEOTE]

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Good habit. It will absolve you from giving any proof too.

SO Platen I want proof you are really Muslim will you give me your personal e-mail or perhaps the personal e-mail of your imam? I want to write him and you. Post it here on the forum.

I sent him an e-mail I will give it to Muslim woman privately if he is willing.

 

[KenEOTE]

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The language in which those christians memorised the bible is very important because bible is available in nealy all languages. We wish you had told about which language was memorised. But you have avoided it.

I wasn’t avoiding it. I am in America. We speak English. So they had memorized it in English so that they could share it with those who are here in America. It would do them no good to memorize the Bible in lets say Farsi if they are not going to Iran.

 

[KenEOTE]

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There is no need of any video for that. Every one can see Quran being recited on the TV in ramadhan and other nights.

There is no need to prove it. The Quran is divine. The practice of saving the divine may also be fruitful / useful in the end.

** I also hope that Shaikh spear is not divine. It appears that is more important than the bible.**

How do we know that they are reciting it correctly. Its in Arabic. I work with many Arabic speaking people and just one slight guttural sound changes the meaning of many words.

But how do we know it is Divine? Other then what Mohammad says. What is ther fruit of the Quran?

Also it is not Shaikh spear… it is Shakespeare. The English Poet. William Shakespeare. and not his words are not more important then the Bible.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

**Please do not compare apples with oranges. I was comparing the common people with Jesus as a God, not Jesus as a prophet. Jesus said that he could not do anything of his own.

And you have got a mutiple nature of Jesus. That is against all sense. That is being used cleverly to cover up things on different sides. He is a man and a god. What a wrong idea? That is a bad basis to start with. All discussion fails with that belief at the base. We cannot allow that. Let him be a man or let him be a god and then come and discuss please.**
So you believe, to make an analogy, that the body and the soul are the same thing?

Next, I see a cow walking past. May i consider that may be god? And why not according to the principle of the church of multi-nature appearance of god in animal form?. jesus was an animal too. How can the church explain all these things please?

If the cow made the claim that he was God, and could prove it, you might have a case.
Tommorrow (today’s a fast day) I’ll have a hamburger in your honor.

 

[KenEOTE]

Salaam/peace

ok . U may also confirm him if he can recite the **entire Bible from memory **like Muslims can recite Quran .

Even any ordinary non- Arab Muslim like me can recite say …100 verses verbatim .

yap , many . InshaAllah i will look for it.

Can u watch Saudi TV or peace TV ? U may watch live telecast of prayer where Imams recite Quran from memory.

Also , u can go to any mosque now , u will see Imams are reciting the whole Quran from memory at night in Tarabi prayer ( special for Ramadan ).

earlier holy books were corrupted by men . Nobody memorised earlier books , no body could check who is changing which verse , who is adding what etc.

So God made the last holy book easy for memorising . Muslims memorised it since the beginning of the revealation . So , if anybody wants to change any single word ( no question of verse ) , Muslims will catch the culprit .

Now if Tsunami hits the world & all holy books are lost , only Muslims will be able to get their holy book back .

Also , dont’ u think it’s amazing that without understanding a foreign language ( just to know how to pronoune the words ) , non Arabs are memorising a book that has more than 6 thousands verses ?

As soon as I hear back from him I will send you a private message and give you his e-mail I am not sure how he is going to “prove” over e-mail other then tell you he has done it. If you can’t take my word for it I am not sure how you will be able to take his. Just like you are expecting me to take your word for it on the those who memorize the Quran. I believe people have memorized it. I do not know why you find it hard to believe people have memorized the Bible.

You still have not explained how having something memorized makes it divine.

 

[planten]

I wasn’t avoiding it. I am in America. We speak English. So they had memorized it in English so that they could share it with those who are here in America. It would do them no good to memorize the Bible in lets say Farsi if they are not going to Iran.

I believe you. I knew a Muslim (born Muslim) who was the hafiz of the bible. He was not hafiz of Quran but had memorized the bible. So I believe there was one of your person too who had memorized the bible. Thanks.

 

[cathopologist]

Memorizing sacred scripture (of any religion) does not make his/her a pious person. I once knew a person from my school days who actually memorized an entire Webster’s dictionary! He impressed his English teachers but that was it. He was not a religious person and neither was he any better in his other subjects or grades.

It takes discipline to memorize scripture, but what use will it be if a person does not apply the same discipline when practicing the faith?

 

[Booklover]

Please do not compare apples with oranges. I was comparing the common people with Jesus as a God, not Jesus as a prophet. Jesus said that he could not do anything of his own.

And you have got a mutiple nature of Jesus. That is against all sense. That is being used cleverly to cover up things on different sides. He is a man and a god. What a wrong idea? That is a bad basis to start with. All discussion fails with that belief at the base. We cannot allow that. Let him be a man or let him be a god and then come and discuss please.

Next, I see a cow walking past. May i consider that may be god? And why not according to the principle of the church of multi-nature appearance of god in animal form?. jesus was an animal too. How can the church explain all these things please?

Planten, stop insulting Jesus by calling him an animal!

If Jesus is not God, why did he state that he could forgive sins?

Vickie

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

One of the guys reciting chapter 28 somehow forgot that

lol…you are talking about English translation . I am talking about holy Quran that was revealed in the Arabic language.

Original language & the translation is not the same & Muslims memorise the Quran----Not the translation .

Quran revealed to the Prophet (p) in 23 years . whenever any verse revealed , Prophet (p) recited that to the companions & they memorised immediately. Angel Gabriel / Jibril (p) used to visit Prophet specially in Ramadan to recited the whole Quran to him .

we believe there is rewards from God for uttering each single letter of Quran . Also , it’s a must for us to recite few lines from Quran ( not the translation ) in our daily prayers.

So , memorisation played a great role to kept the Quran safe from corruption. Moreover , God Almighty is protector of His Last holy book .

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Are you jealous that we have our original holy book & u lost ? In which language Jesus (p) talked & got the revealition from God ? Pl. don’t say it was english.

 

[scipio337]

So what is the final word on the punishment for apostacy on the Muslims of the board?

Death to sane male ones, per the hadiths and all major schools of Islamic jurisprudence?

What punishment should be meted out?

 

[scipio337]

So what is the final word on the punishment for apostacy on the Muslims of the board?

Death to sane male ones, per the hadiths and all major schools of Islamic jurisprudence?

What punishment should be meted out?

Bueller?

 

[Booklover]

Salaam/peace

Are you jealous that we have our original holy book & u lost ? In which language Jesus (p) talked & got the revealition from God ? Pl. don’t say it was english.

Why should we be jealous of a book as full of errors, hatred and absurdities as the Quran? How can such a book be from God?

Vickie

 

[KenEOTE]

Why should we be jealous of a book as full of errors, hatred and absurdities as the Quran? How can such a book be from God?

Vickie

But it can be memorized by people who don’t even know the language. That must mean its got something. Oh wait, I have seen a girl who memorized a song in Farsi who couldn’t speak it. My son who is 4 can say the Alphabet in french and spanish and english. But he doesn’t speak French or Spanish. perhaps the French and Spanish alphabet our divine.