Muslim converts to Christianity

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Recitation= divine authorship is one claim that is still beyond me.

Arabic still used = divine preservation is another claim that is beyond me.

Of course Arabic language will be idolized if Muhammad was an Arab bedouin nationalist…non-Arabs are supposed to pray in a language they have nothing in common with just because Allah spoke Arabic eternally…After all Muhammad was sent to Arabs, his book is for Arabs…and when people accused him of being taught by someone, he resorted to the same fallacy that the man in question is non-Arab…as if bilinguals do not exist…

We are not limited to languages as the apostles themselves preached about Jesus to each nation according to their language…God enabled humans to speak languages of different people to preach the same message to each according to his language…but Allah wants non-Arabs to speak Arabic and reciting Arabic letters takes you to heaven…Arab nationalist that is…i hope Muslims won’t claim as well that Moses spoke Arabic but Jews corrupted his language…but am ready to such claims…i’ve heard worse historical blunders…
 
Ooo! A language question! I love it.

During Jesus’ time, the dominant language of the area was Aramaic, and it is said that this is the native language of Jesus. I, like inJESUS, do not see this as the basis for the linguistic “divinity” of Aramaic in the way that the Muslims see Muhammad’s exultation of his own language as evidence of its divinity. As a linguist, that seems like silly self-inflation. As a Christian, that seems like a doorway to blasphemy (God is an Arab? He speaks so that only one people can understand Him?).

But I am still so happy that Aramaic survives among the descendents of the first Christians. If I had my druthers, I would learn it myself, as well as Amharic and Ge’ez (another Semitic language that some of its proponents have claimed is divine; sorry, Habeshi, that doesn’t sit right with me!). This is one of my main reasons for learning Arabic, in fact. It is indeed a beautiful language of poetry, scholarship, and great philosophy (and very nice people, of course), but most importantly from a linguistic perspective, it will help me in my Amharic studies by giving me a good background in Semitic tri-consonantal root formation and recognition, syntax, lexis, etc. It will not prove the divinity of the Quran, and if that turns up in any part of the lessons, I will quit and return to self-study! 😉
 
Dear Sister Amy

Just because some muslims convert to chrisitanity doesnt pove that christianity but i n the same way just because soem christians convert to islam doesnt prove it right. Muslims always go on about how their religion is the fastest growing religion on earth and how that it is proof it is right.Muslims seem to equate numbers with truth. What they dont realise is that millions of muslims leave the religion each year for other religions or athiesm. As for the muslim who converted to christianity are u refering to this hadith

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 814:
Narrated Anas:
There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again and he used to say: “Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him.” Then Allah caused him to die, and the people buried him, but in the morning they saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, “This is the act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and took his body out of it because he had run away from them.” They again dug the grave deeply for him, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, “This is an act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and threw his body outside it, for he had run away from them.” They dug the grave for him as deep as they could, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. So they believed that what had befallen him was not done by human beings and had to leave him thrown (on the ground).
 
Hello,

By wikipedia

By all the reliable sources, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. It has been verified by many independent sources, many of which are listed below.

**CNN World News **( 14 November 1997 Report — See link below )

World Christian Database ( 200-2005 Survey — See link Below )

Foreign Policy ( May 2007 Report — See link Below )

And also, by many other websites like,

People’s Daily Online ( 2 Nov, 2006 — See link Below )

Islam is Growing ( — See link Below )

And, the number of adherents of Protestants and Catholics is decreasing. So, as people are accepting christianity, they are leaving it at a greater rate as reported in leading newspaper. The New York Times ( 25 Feb, 2008 Report — See link Below )

Therefore, as verified by indepedant news media, western sources and even by the christian organisation itself, Islam is indeed the fastest growing religion in the world.

Americanrevert
 
Hello,

By wikipedia

By all the reliable sources, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. It has been verified by many independent sources, many of which are listed below.

**CNN World News **( 14 November 1997 Report — See link below )

World Christian Database ( 200-2005 Survey — See link Below )

Foreign Policy ( May 2007 Report — See link Below )

And also, by many other websites like,

People’s Daily Online ( 2 Nov, 2006 — See link Below )

Islam is Growing ( — See link Below )

And, the number of adherents of Protestants and Catholics is decreasing. So, as people are accepting christianity, they are leaving it at a greater rate as reported in leading newspaper. The New York Times ( 25 Feb, 2008 Report — See link Below )

Therefore, as verified by indepedant news media, western sources and even by the christian organisation itself, Islam is indeed the fastest growing religion in the world.

Americanrevert
In addition to these, there are hundreds of “Muslims” turning to other religions or simply choosing to adhere to atheism in the world today. Why do you think we cannot have their names? Why do you think those people avoid publicity? Could it be because Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance? 😃
 
**Hello Angelos,

They misunderstand their religion. You cannot call God a liar.

Americanrevert**
 
Though he is little known in the West, Coptic priest Zakaria Botros — named Islam’s “Public Enemy #1” by the Arabic newspaper, al-Insan al-Jadid — has been making waves in the Islamic world. Along with fellow missionaries — mostly Muslim converts — he appears frequently on the Arabic channel al-Hayat (i.e., “Life TV”). There, he addresses controversial topics of theological significance — free from the censorship imposed by Islamic authorities or self-imposed through fear of the zealous mobs who fulminated against the infamous cartoons of Mohammed. Botros’s excurses on little-known but embarrassing aspects of Islamic law and tradition have become a thorn in the side of Islamic leaders throughout the Middle East.
Botros is an unusual figure onscreen: robed, with a huge cross around his neck, he sits with both the Koran and the Bible in easy reach. Egypt’s Copts — members of one of the oldest Christian communities in the Middle East — have in many respects come to personify the demeaning Islamic institution of “dhimmitude” (which demands submissiveness from non-Muslims, in accordance with Koran 9:29). But the fiery Botros does not submit, and minces no words. He has famously made of Islam “ten demands” whose radical nature he uses to highlight Islam’s own radical demands on non-Muslims.

The result? Mass conversions to Christianity — if clandestine ones. The very public conversion of high-profile Italian journalist Magdi Allam — who was baptized by Pope Benedict in Rome on Saturday — is only the tip of the iceberg. Indeed, Islamic cleric Ahmad al-Qatani stated on al-Jazeera TV a while back that some six million Muslims convert to Christianity annually, many of them persuaded by Botros’s public ministry. More recently, al-Jazeera noted Life TV’s “unprecedented evangelical raid” on the Muslim world. Several factors account for the Botros phenomenon.

A third reason for Botros’s success is that his polemical technique has proven irrefutable. Each of his episodes has a theme — from the pressing to the esoteric — often expressed as a question (e.g., “Is jihad an obligation for all Muslims?”; “Are women inferior to men in Islam?”; “Did Mohammed say that adulterous female monkeys should be stoned?” “Is drinking the urine of prophets salutary according to sharia?”). To answer the question, Botros meticulously quotes — always careful to give sources and reference numbers — from authoritative Islamic texts on the subject, starting from the Koran; then from the canonical sayings of the prophet — the Hadith; and finally from the words of prominent Muslim theologians past and present — the illustrious ulema.

Typically, Botros’s presentation of the Islamic material is sufficiently detailed that the controversial topic is shown to be an airtight aspect of Islam. Yet, however convincing his proofs, Botros does not flatly conclude that, say, universal jihad or female inferiority are basic tenets of Islam. He treats the question as still open — and humbly invites the ulema, the revered articulators of sharia law, to respond and show the error in his methodology. He does demand, however, that their response be based on “al-dalil we al-burhan,” — “evidence and proof,” one of his frequent refrains — not shout-downs or sophistry.

More often than not, the response from the ulema is deafening silence — which has only made Botros and Life TV more enticing to Muslim viewers. The ulema who have publicly addressed Botros’s conclusions often find themselves forced to agree with him — which has led to some amusing (and embarrassing) moments on live Arabic TV.
Botros played the key role in exposing this obscure and embarrassing issue and forcing the ulema to respond. Another guest on Hala Sirhan’s show, Abd al-Fatah, slyly indicated that the entire controversy was instigated by Botros: “I know you all [fellow panelists] watch that channel and that priest and that none of you [pointing at Abd al-Muhdi] can ever respond to him, since he always documents his sources!”
Incapable of rebutting Botros, the only strategy left to the ulema (aside from a rumored $5-million bounty on his head) is to ignore him. When his name is brought up, they dismiss him as a troublemaking liar who is backed by — who else? — international “Jewry.” They could easily refute his points, they insist, but will not deign to do so. That strategy may satisfy some Muslims, but others are demanding straightforward responses from the ulema.

But the ultimate reason for Botros’s success is that — unlike his Western counterparts who criticize Islam from a political standpoint — his primary interest is the salvation of souls. He often begins and concludes his programs by stating that he loves all Muslims as fellow humans and wants to steer them away from falsehood to Truth. To that end, he doesn’t just expose troubling aspects of Islam. Before concluding every program, he quotes pertinent biblical verses and invites all his viewers to come to Christ
Botros’s motive is not to incite the West against Islam, promote “Israeli interests,” or “demonize” Muslims, but to draw Muslims away from the dead legalism of sharia to the spirituality of Christianity. Many Western critics fail to appreciate that, to disempower radical Islam, something theocentric and spiritually satisfying — not secularism, democracy, capitalism, materialism, feminism, etc. — must be offered in its place. The truths of one religion can only be challenged and supplanted by the truths of another. And so Father Zakaria Botros has been fighting fire with fire.

There’s more examples of what he brings up that the ‘ulama’ don’t want you to:
article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTUwY2QyNjA0NjcwMjExMzI2ZmJiZTEzN2U1YjYyZjE=&w=MA==

God bless him and his ministry!
 
I have seen videos of Father Zakariya Boutros on Youtube. He is a real firebrand! I am deeply impressed by his straight words (well, the translations of them that I read) and unwaivering faith and conviction. While I am obviously not a Copt, I truly believe that men like him are the light of all Christianity, and a great example to us all. May God bless him and keep him safe.

One of my favorite videos of him is this one. How can anyone not look up to this man after watching this and hearing his words?
 
**Hello,

I have seen him on TV one time and man, he has his own daleels. (no wonder he is Islam’s enemy #1) I wouldn’t trust him with a ten foot pole! He interprets things the way HE SEES THEM…not the way Allah taught it to His Last Messenger (sws).

See, his problem stems from lack of knowledge of ahadith, tafsir of Quran and also the Arabi language. Not necessarily everyone who speaks Arabi understands the correct FussHa meaning. This is known in the Islamic world that one must be completely understanding of the Arabi language in order to pronounce any judgment on any aya, and in sayin that, one must have ISLAMIC KNOWLEDGE TAUGHT TO HIM AND PASSED DOWN TO HIM THROUGH ISLAMIC SCHOLARS.

He, does not have this.

Then you have ignorant Muslims who listen and are convinced DUE TO IGNORANCE OF THEIR OWN RELIGION.

Allahul Musta’aan!

americanrevert

**
 
In addition to these, there are hundreds of “Muslims” turning to other religions or simply choosing to adhere to atheism in the world today. Why do you think we cannot have their names? Why do you think those people avoid publicity? Could it be because Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance? 😃
Angelos, it is not Muslims who are becoming atheists but the christians are fast becoming atheists because they cannot understand their religion. Also, please see those name sake christians wandering in the cities/ streets of Paris and Hmaburg who are not practicng christians. They are already half way on the path of Atheism. Thay comprise a very large number of dissatisfied people, dislocated people.
 
one must have ISLAMIC KNOWLEDGE TAUGHT TO HIM AND PASSED DOWN TO HIM THROUGH ISLAMIC SCHOLARS.

Then you have ignorant Muslims who listen and are convinced DUE TO IGNORANCE OF THEIR OWN RELIGION.
I left Islam, and I think I have a pretty good understanding of Islam.

Perhaps you can inform me what I don’t know about Islam.

in Christ,

Silouan
 
I have seen videos of Father Zakariya Boutros on Youtube. He is a real firebrand! I am deeply impressed by his straight words (well, the translations of them that I read) and unwaivering faith and conviction. While I am obviously not a Copt, I truly believe that men like him are the light of all Christianity, and a great example to us all. May God bless him and keep him safe.

One of my favorite videos of him is this one. How can anyone not look up to this man after watching this and hearing his words?
I heard him once. He was a horible, unreasonable person. Words without logic and sense have no meaning. He may be a fire bird or fire brand. But that is no use in religion and spiritualism.
 
I left Islam, and I think I have a pretty good understanding of Islam.

Perhaps you can inform me what I don’t know about Islam.

in Christ,

Silouan
Perhaps you can tell me what the penalty for apostacy is?

None of the Muslims on the board want to tell me.

I’ve found some sources online, but want to see what the actual belief and practice is, and what Muslims feel in their heart.

Any insight is greatly appreciated.
 
So let me get this this straight: When a non-Arabic speaking non-Muslim interprets something in the Quran or Hadith on this board, they are often told “you are not understanding the true meaning because you read a translation, and the true meaning can only be known in Arabic.” Now when a NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER reads the Quran and Hadith and interprets them according to his knowledge, you say “well, just because he speaks Arabic doesn’t mean he really understands.” So who CAN understand the Quran and Hadith correctly? Let me guess: Only Muslims, right?

And, in case you are thinking of responding that way, I do not need to have the term fusha explained to me. I am a linguist, with many Arabic-speaking friends and acquaintances.

I just find it fairly insane that you, a non-native speaker who is admittedly still in the process of studying the language, would question whether or not this man who has Arabic as his first language can really understand what he reads and says in his own language. Why not just admit the truth and say that you disagree with his interpretations? That would be better than trying to convince us that not even Arabs can understand the Quran! 😉
 
**Hello,

I have seen him on TV one time and man, he has his own daleels. (no wonder he is Islam’s enemy #1) I wouldn’t trust him with a ten foot pole! He interprets things the way HE SEES THEM…not the way Allah taught it to His Last Messenger (sws).

See, his problem stems from lack of knowledge of ahadith, tafsir of Quran and also the Arabi language. Not necessarily everyone who speaks Arabi understands the correct FussHa meaning. This is known in the Islamic world that one must be completely understanding of the Arabi language in order to pronounce any judgment on any aya**, and in sayin that, one must have ISLAMIC KNOWLEDGE TAUGHT TO HIM AND PASSED DOWN TO HIM THROUGH ISLAMIC SCHOLARS.

He, does not have this.

Then you have ignorant Muslims who listen and are convinced DUE TO IGNORANCE OF THEIR OWN RELIGION.

Allahul Musta’aan!

americanrevert
Do you speak Arabic to judge us Christians and our tenets by the Koran?If the answer is yes, how can you present yourself as a convert of American origin? Since when have baptists taught their kids modern Arabic and as well as the language of the Koran?

Before that do you speak Greek to understand the Gospels in their original form?

The mistakes in the Koran stemmed from Mohammad’s (actually his scribes’) ignorance and related fallacious arguments/presumptions.

We have Jesus, through whom came TRUTH and GRACE, so we do not need the guidance of a pagan born 600 years after Jesus and His Church. 😉
 
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