Muslim converts to Christianity

[Angelos]

I heard him once. He was a horible, unreasonable person. Words without logic and sense have no meaning. He may be a fire bird or fire brand. But that is no use in religion and spiritualism.

If what you are saying about the man is true and trustworthy, you must have been surprised to share with him so many common traits.

 

[inJESUS]

Also, please see those name sake christians wandering in the cities/ streets of Paris and Hmaburg who are not practicng christians. They are already half way on the path of Atheism. Thay comprise a very large number of dissatisfied people, dislocated people.

if this is the level of your arguments, then i invite you **now **to come to Lebanon, during ramadan, to see full-house pubs of Saudis, Kuwaitis, Abu Dhabi, and all kind of Imarati men and (and some women) not only not fasting but drinking like hell…you can check what girls are doing in SA, sleeping with taxi drivers and fleeing their homes or walking naked under the black sheet on them…you can see the unimaginable number of homosexual Imarati and Saudi men and women…welcome to the real world of satisfied Muslims.

 

[Angelos]

Angelos, it is not Muslims who are becoming atheists but the christians are fast becoming atheists because they cannot understand their religion. Also, please see those name sake christians wandering in the cities/ streets of Paris and Hmaburg who are not practicng christians. They are already half way on the path of Atheism. Thay comprise a very large number of dissatisfied people, dislocated people.

What comes to your mind when I utter the name Salman Rushdie?

 

[dzheremi]

He may be a fire bird or fire brand. But that is no use in religion and spiritualism.

Wow…I bet many Muslims would disagree with you. Aren’t they inspired by the oratory of their great speakers? I remember reading, for instance, that audio tapes of Imam Khomeini’s speeches replaced the revolutionary songs by the likes of Mohammad Reza Shajarian once the revolution had actually gotten under way in Iran. Too bad, too…Shajarian is the best of musicians.

Anyway, maybe you prefer your Imam to read to you in a flat, monotone voice, but even if being passionate doesn’t help spirituality, I don’t see how the opposite does either. Oh well. You can be an Islamic pilgrim if you wish. I don’t mind.

 

[Booklover]

Recitation= divine authorship is one claim that is still beyond me.

Arabic still used = divine preservation is another claim that is beyond me.

Of course Arabic language will be idolized if Muhammad was an Arab bedouin nationalist…non-Arabs are supposed to pray in a language they have nothing in common with just because Allah spoke Arabic eternally…After all Muhammad was sent to Arabs, his book is for Arabs…and when people accused him of being taught by someone, he resorted to the same fallacy that the man in question is non-Arab…as if bilinguals do not exist…

We are not limited to languages as the apostles themselves preached about Jesus to each nation according to their language…God enabled humans to speak languages of different people to preach the same message to each according to his language…but Allah wants non-Arabs to speak Arabic and reciting Arabic letters takes you to heaven…Arab nationalist that is…i hope Muslims won’t claim as well that Moses spoke Arabic but Jews corrupted his language…but am ready to such claims…i’ve heard worse historical blunders…

Great post, InJesus! Islam is Arab imperialism.

Vickie

 

[scipio337]

…

Anyone?

…

 

[planten]

if this is the level of your arguments, then i invite you **now **to come to Lebanon, during ramadan, to see full-house pubs of Saudis, Kuwaitis, Abu Dhabi, and all kind of Imarati men and (and some women) not only not fasting but drinking like hell…you can check what girls are doing in SA, sleeping with taxi drivers and fleeing their homes or walking naked under the black sheet on them…you can see the unimaginable number of homosexual Imarati and Saudi men and women…welcome to the real world of satisfied Muslims.

inJesus, Bairut and Bahrain are only a small pockets compared to the filth all over christian dominated countries… There is no comparison. The bad deeds in Lebanon are the result of Christian religious leadership.

 

[scipio337]

inJesus, Bairut and Bahrain are only a small pockets compared to the filth all over christian dominated countries… There is no comparison. The bad deeds in Lebanon are the result of Christian religious leadership.

You don’t know much about politics in Lebanon, do you?

Maybe you can answer, planten, what is the punishment for an apostate in Islam.

 

[planten]

…

Anyone?
…

It was told to you that this is not the proper place to discuss this matter. Perhaps you can tell if there is any punishment for apostacy in church system. That will be more useful to us. I bet you do not have anything.

 

[dolphinlove]

inJesus, Bairut and Bahrain are only a small pockets compared to the filth all over christian dominated countries… There is no comparison. The bad deeds in Lebanon are the result of Christian religious leadership.

Are you blaming Christians for Muslims gone wild?
Did the Christians go and say to the Muslims, ok you must go out and get drunk and have sex with whoever you want?
Planten, your logic is now becoming beyond flawed.
So who are you going to blame the ‘filth’ as you put it in Islamic countries?

 

[KenEOTE]

It was told to you that this is not the proper place to discuss this matter. Perhaps you can tell if there is any punishment for apostacy in church system. That will be more useful to us. I bet you do not have anything.

Funny he has been asking this question for days. What is the big secret? Is there a punishment for it or not? I think it is a good place to talk about it as it is talking about Muslims converting to Christianity so wouldn’t that be apostacy in the eyes of Islam?

 

[dolphinlove]

It was told to you that this is not the proper place to discuss this matter. Perhaps you can tell if there is any punishment for apostacy in church system. That will be more useful to us. I bet you do not have anything.

And again, changing the topic…
Also one of your stronger traits.

So can you answer for the violence in your religion Planten??
Now is as good a time as any…

 

[KenEOTE]

And again, changing the topic…
Also one of your stronger traits.

So can you answer for the violence in your religion Planten??
Now is as good a time as any…

I would like to answer on behalf of Planten… It was told to you that this is not the proper place to discuss this matter.

That will be the reply to both of your posts.

 

[scipio337]

It was told to you that this is not the proper place to discuss this matter. Perhaps you can tell if there is any punishment for apostacy in church system. That will be more useful to us. I bet you do not have anything.

I was told? Where would be the proper place to discuss the matter? What better than a forum about Christian converts?

Why don’t you want to discuss this???

And no, there is no punishment in the “Church System”.

Its mentioned in the Second Epistle to the Thessalonians, Jude and Titus 3:10, but no punishment is prescribed, just that the apostate should be “rejected after the first and second admonition.”.

Christ didn’t call for punishment of his former followers in John 6:66.

The punishment according to Canon Law is a latae sententiae excommunication.

Cann. 1364

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P52.HTM

Cann. 1336 also lists:

1/ a prohibition or an order concerning residence in a certain place or territory;

2/ privation of a power, office, function, right, privilege, faculty, favor, title, or insignia, even merely honorary;

3/ a prohibition against exercising those things listed under n. 2, or a prohibition against exercising them in a certain place or outside a certain place; these prohibitions are never under pain of nullity;

4/ a penal transfer to another office;

5/ dismissal from the clerical state.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4Y.HTM

**There. Now that I’ve answered your question, will you now answer mine? **

?

 

[KenEOTE]

I was told? Where would be the proper place to discuss the matter? What better than a forum about Christian converts?

Why don’t you want to discuss this???

And no, there is no punishment in the “Church System”.

Its mentioned in the Second Epistle to the Thessalonians, Jude and Titus 3:10, but no punishment is prescribed, just that the apostate should be “rejected after the first and second admonition.”.

Christ didn’t call for punishment of his former followers in John 6:66.

The punishment according to Canon Law is a latae sententiae excommunication.

Cann. 1364

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P52.HTM

Cann. 1336 also lists:

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4Y.HTM

**There. Now that I’ve answered your question, will you now answer mine? **

?

That was nice of you to show such charity and answer his question when he still hasn’t answered yours. It shows the kind of Character you have. Even if he now answers you it shows much about Platen’s character.

 

[scipio337]

That was nice of you to show such charity and answer his question when he still hasn’t answered yours. It shows the kind of Character you have. Even if he now answers you it shows much about Platen’s character.

Thanks!

I wouldn’t want to try to brush over my Catholic beliefs, or excuse the past behavior of Catholics, etc. Straightforward, for me, is always the best policy. If I disagreed with a teaching of my faith (let’s say, opposition to the death penalty), I would tell you, up front, what my faith teaches, and why I disagree with it (just an example, I don’t support the death penalty).

I’m not trying to be disingenuous in my question. I know what is traditionally taught, but I want to see what is in the hearts of Muslims.

 

[inJESUS]

The bad deeds in Lebanon are the result of Christian religious leadership

. i didn’t know Muslims in here (Lebanese, Saudi, Imarati, Syrian, Iraqi) are led by the Christian religious leadership…thank you for enlightning me.

 

[planten]

And again, changing the topic…
Also one of your stronger traits.

So can you answer for the violence in your religion Planten??
Now is as good a time as any…

Please read bible OT for the violence. That is the book of your ancestors. Once you have seen the real violence and killing there then you may come back to look for violence in Quran.

Why you go far to Quran when violence is very near you in your own book ( combined bible).

 

[planten]

I was told? Where would be the proper place to discuss the matter? What better than a forum about Christian converts?

Why don’t you want to discuss this???

And no, there is no punishment in the “Church System”.

Its mentioned in the Second Epistle to the Thessalonians, Jude and Titus 3:10, but no punishment is prescribed, just that the apostate should be “rejected after the first and second admonition.”.

Christ didn’t call for punishment of his former followers in John 6:66

The punishment according to Canon Law is a latae sententiae excommunication.

Cann. 1364

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P52.HTM

Cann. 1336 also lists:

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4Y.HTM

**There. Now that I’ve answered your question, will you now answer mine? **

?

Thanks you have given detailed reply. But it is not easy to understand it. In one way, you say there is no punishment. On other hand you have given some news for punishment for apostacy, i.e. banisment etc. ex-communication etc.

So what I am to believe in simple terms, what is the right final word about the apostate as per church teaching.

Your question can easily be answered.

 

[KenEOTE]

Please read bible OT for the violence. That is the book of your ancestors. Once you have seen the real violence and killing there then you may come back to look for violence in Quran.

Why you go far to Quran when violence is very near you in your own book ( combined bible).

Platen.

We all know the violence in the OT and some in the NT. The difference that is made is that when I read the OT it is not a call to go out and kill. It is telling you historically what happened. God in the OT is not telling us now to go out and destroy those who do not agree or do not convert to our ways. Yet in the Quran there are statements saying this, and there are many Muslims killing in the name of Allah using the Quran as their backup. I think that is the violence that many our concerned about. I do not see the Pope leading an army to convert or kill. I do not see any Christian Army out there claiming to do anything in the name of Christ that involves converting or killing the innocent. I have seen many “martyr” of Islam blow themselves up and others in the name of Allah.