I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
Many don’t get off so easy.
- Status
D
dolphinlove
Guest
excommunication.
Its that simple, or dont you understand us not killing them for leaving?
dictionary meaning for excommunication:
1.to cut off from communion with a church or exclude from the sacraments of a church by ecclesiastical sentence.
2.to exclude or expel from membership or participation in any group, association
Now this couldnt be any more clearer.
Now for your explanation on Islamic excommunication thank you
C
cathopologist
Guest
Oh for goodness sakes man. If you cannot answer the questions (even after we have answered what you wanted to know), just say so. Grow a backbone. You’re becoming tiresome. Is this how Islam proselytizes? Seriously?
P
planten
Guest
**You have replied with some surety ( little surety). Because you have said “Probably…” You are also trying to avoid the punishment of ex-communication. But you have some punishment for apostacy.
About the punishment for apostacy in Islam, you are right. What you wrote in your last para is correct. There is absolutely no punishment in Islam for apostacy. Any one who wants to go away from Islam tomorrow may happily go away today. We do not need any one who is unhappy with Islam.
It is true that the muslim clergy believe there is death penulty for apostacy in Islam. They base it on some Hadith. But our Hadith is only as good as your bible.
But still we have some rules in Islam which the present day Mullas do not know or do not follow. Killing is a capital punishment. It cannot be awarded on the basis of any Hadith only. For such serious punishment, the proof should be in the Quran. And it is not there.
So the practice of killing the apostates in Islam is totally wrong. They have other wrong notions about Jihad with a sword against all non-believers. That is all wrong. And there is plenty more. I may not describe here. I hope I have replied now. Please tell.**
About the punishment for apostacy in Islam, you are right. What you wrote in your last para is correct. There is absolutely no punishment in Islam for apostacy. Any one who wants to go away from Islam tomorrow may happily go away today. We do not need any one who is unhappy with Islam.
It is true that the muslim clergy believe there is death penulty for apostacy in Islam. They base it on some Hadith. But our Hadith is only as good as your bible.
But still we have some rules in Islam which the present day Mullas do not know or do not follow. Killing is a capital punishment. It cannot be awarded on the basis of any Hadith only. For such serious punishment, the proof should be in the Quran. And it is not there.
So the practice of killing the apostates in Islam is totally wrong. They have other wrong notions about Jihad with a sword against all non-believers. That is all wrong. And there is plenty more. I may not describe here. I hope I have replied now. Please tell.**
C
cathopologist
Guest
**
Huh?
**
**
Again, Huh?
**
**
So you admit the Qur’an teaches its believers to kill the infidel/apostate? The Hadith AND the Qur’an is no where comparable to the Bible.
**
**
Why do i feel you’re “gonna get it”?
**
Not really. Killing the apostate isn’t “wrong” according to the Qur’an.
Jihad is Jihad. What are you going to claim now? That you’re a “moderate” Muslim?
P
planten
Guest
** May I add that there is no punishment of ex-communication for apostates in Islam. Because that is not needed. Apostate (Murtadd) is a person who leaves Islam of his own will. Nobody throws him out of the pale of Islam. He himself says that he is unhappy with Islam. He says that islam is a bad religion; it is untrue religion and that he does not want to be a part of it. So what use is there to excommunicate a person who has already said good-bye to us accusing us of falsehood !
There is another malady in the minds of muslims. They try to excommunicate a person and try to make him an apostate. That is wrong. An apostate is the one who leaves Islam of his own accord, not a one whom the others make apostate (Murtadd).**
There is another malady in the minds of muslims. They try to excommunicate a person and try to make him an apostate. That is wrong. An apostate is the one who leaves Islam of his own accord, not a one whom the others make apostate (Murtadd).**
P
planten
Guest
D
dzheremi
Guest
Hahaha. Cathopologist…you broke Planten! 
Now we’re going to have to take him back to the store to have him exchanged for a new one. Hopefully this new model will have less malfunctions and meltdowns.
Now we’re going to have to take him back to the store to have him exchanged for a new one. Hopefully this new model will have less malfunctions and meltdowns.
A
Americanrevert
Guest
Hello wa assalaamu’alaykum wa rahmatuAllahi wa barakatu,
Again, the Gospels are NOT IN THEIR ORIGINAL FORM, GREEK was not even the language of Jesus’.
Find me mistakes in the Quran and not ones from that Jewish antiIslamic site that does not understand Arabi and the tafsir of the Quran. (from your ownself if you are able to think properly) Thank you.
Amazing how you say you have Jesus. Where was God when his son was being killed? You call that Grace? Merciful? You really think so bigheaded of yourself that you deserve to have someone die for you?? The Creator who created all humankind and the unseen, the One Who creates, you think He needs you? You think He needs to have “HIS SON” whom yall claim “is” die for something He already created and One who is in control of DEATH AND LIFE. You really think this is a merciful God that you deserve to be treated with such “Grace”???
He, our beautiful Creator is not in need of us, you must understand that or can you?
Americanrevert
You seem very eager to judge me. I am a native American (ancestors~Cherokee Indian Tribe). I am married to a national from UAE for 24 years. Please do not underestimate my ability when it comes to the Arabi language. I also have the first 3 major books from the Quran all memorized, with Tajweed and am God willing, am on way to becoming a Hafitha if Allah permits Allah ybarak! I can speak different dialects of the Arabi language, have studied Islam explicitly for 21 years now, Arabi is included. You do not know me, you will never know me so please stop saying stupid sarcastic statements against me. Thank you.
Again, the Gospels are NOT IN THEIR ORIGINAL FORM, GREEK was not even the language of Jesus’.
Find me mistakes in the Quran and not ones from that Jewish antiIslamic site that does not understand Arabi and the tafsir of the Quran. (from your ownself if you are able to think properly) Thank you.
Amazing how you say you have Jesus. Where was God when his son was being killed? You call that Grace? Merciful? You really think so bigheaded of yourself that you deserve to have someone die for you?? The Creator who created all humankind and the unseen, the One Who creates, you think He needs you? You think He needs to have “HIS SON” whom yall claim “is” die for something He already created and One who is in control of DEATH AND LIFE. You really think this is a merciful God that you deserve to be treated with such “Grace”???
He, our beautiful Creator is not in need of us, you must understand that or can you?
Americanrevert
D
dzheremi
Guest
Americanrevert, repeating over and over your distortions of what Christians believe (such as your incredibly insulting idea that we Christians believe that we are worthy to have Jesus die for us) will do nothing but provoke the same responses you have received from us the last time you posted these baseless claims. I suggest you find another line of argument, because what you are doing now will yield no fruit and may even eventually get you banned, as has happened to other posters who apparently thought that it was a civil right to be able to post the same anti-Christian rants over and over on a Catholic messageboard. (It definitely isn’t, by the way 
)
)
A
Americanrevert
Guest
Hello,
It isn’t anti-Christian like when you insult Islam? When you criticize our prophet? You call this civil? I ask in SERIOUS DIALOGUE TONE, but get feedback that has been nothing but assumptions, accusations and criticisms…well except for a certain few like “inJesus” it has been nice carry on a CIVIL dialogue for a change.
Knowledge is there, those who do not have it usually end up insulting, ridiculing and hurting those who are innocent. I said before I came on this forum I was not looking for insults, degradations etc…but I got a lot of it from CHRISTIANS…and yes, one time from a Muslim. Does this not warrant a talk to your Christian fellows?
Be HONEST AND FAIR.
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
Americanrevert
Why is it insulting? I am not provoking any responses. I ask questions, yall give insults to my questions…that isn’t very Christianlike is it? Still no one has answered…but yet yall, DEMAND ***and ridicule and insult Islam and muslims and say we don’t answer yall straight forward…I call this hypocritical wouldn’t you? ***
It isn’t anti-Christian like when you insult Islam? When you criticize our prophet? You call this civil? I ask in SERIOUS DIALOGUE TONE, but get feedback that has been nothing but assumptions, accusations and criticisms…well except for a certain few like “inJesus” it has been nice carry on a CIVIL dialogue for a change.
Knowledge is there, those who do not have it usually end up insulting, ridiculing and hurting those who are innocent. I said before I came on this forum I was not looking for insults, degradations etc…but I got a lot of it from CHRISTIANS…and yes, one time from a Muslim. Does this not warrant a talk to your Christian fellows?
Be HONEST AND FAIR.
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
Americanrevert
D
dzheremi
Guest
It is insulting because it makes Christians accomplices in the murder of their own Lord for greedy, selfish reasons. It is insulting because it is the exact opposite of what every sect of Christianity has taught regarding this issue since the very first generations of Christianity itself. It is insulting because it is heresy. It is insulting for so many reasons that are obvious to anyone with even the slightest superficial knowledge of Christianity (no matter what religion they actually are) that I am almost tempted to say I am insulted that you even ask this question. It is one of the most insulting things you can possibly say to a Christian or about Christianity. It is definitely provocative.
I have not observed so many questions as bold statements from you regarding what you believe Christianity to be about. And I have answered many of your posts. If you have questions, they are generally of the form “Why do you Christians (insert fallacious belief based on traditional Islamic reading of Christianity as given in the Quran)?” or “Why don’t you Christians (insert Islamic belief that the Quran insists we must follow in order to conform to Muhammad’s depiction of Christianity which is absolutely at variance with the book we actually DO follow)?” There is no way to answer such questions other than to keep telling you what I have always told Muslims here whenever I have encountered such questions: Your knowledge of Christianity is perverted by the Quran’s false depictions of it. And we do not behave as you tell us to because we truly understand our religion, so we are not bound by how a Muslim must act, or how a Muslim says a Christian must act based on shallow, self-serving readings of the Bible with NO knowledge of context or tradition. Let the Muslims be Muslims. We do not demand that you behave as we Christians do, only leave our scriptures alone and concern yourselves instead with your own.
I don’t demand anything other than what I just typed above: Leave us and our scriptures alone. If Muslims want to believe in Muhammad’s prophethood and the eternal and uncreated nature of the Quran and everything in it, fine. Please, by all means do that. But I will not, and I will not pretend that I do not disagree with Islam. The difference is that I can disagree with Islam without slaughtering the Quran as you do to the Bible.
No. It is definitely Christian to refuse to accept the doctrines that come after the Bible, claiming divine origin or sanction, that contradict and seek to nullify God’s word as it is written therein, and to deny the divinity of Jesus. We are told in the Bible not to believe things such as the Quran (as well as any others after it), for these very reasons.
I do not know what posts of mine you are refering to, but if you can point them out to me and where I was insulting in them, I will believe you. Maybe I am deluding myself, but I had thought I was one of the less anti-Muslim posters here. Maybe you have not seen my posts where I write that I love my Muslim friends, that I believe Muslims worship the One God, etc.
I have talked to my fellow Christians here when I think they are out of line or mistaken. Yesterday alone, several times.
P
Psalter
Guest
Hello wa assalaamu’alaykum wa rahmatuAllahi wa barakatu,
You seem very eager to judge me. I am a native American (ancestors~Cherokee Indian Tribe). I am married to a national from UAE for 24 years. Please do not underestimate my ability when it comes to the Arabi language. I also have the first 3 major books from the Quran all memorized, with Tajweed and am God willing, am on way to becoming a Hafitha if Allah permits Allah ybarak! I can speak different dialects of the Arabi language, have studied Islam explicitly for 21 years now, Arabi is included. You do not know me, you will never know me so please stop saying stupid sarcastic statements against me. Thank you.
Again, the Gospels are NOT IN THEIR ORIGINAL FORM, GREEK was not even the language of Jesus’.
Actually, three of the four Gospels (Mark, Luke, & John) are in their original form and were written in Greek. The Gospel of Matthew might have been written in Aramaic (the language of Jesus) originally, but was translated into Greek in the time of the Apostles and therefore is of equal authority. What is your point, anyway? Jesus didn’t come to give us a book (as the Quran mistakenly asserts) but to give us His teachings and willingly lay down His life on the cross for our sins, then rise on the third day. Some of His teaching was later recorded in the time of the Apostles (the four Gospels)…we also have unwritten Sacred Tradition, which is of equal authority as the written Scriptures.
Find me mistakes in the Quran and not ones from that Jewish antiIslamic site that does not understand Arabi and the tafsir of the Quran. (from your ownself if you are able to think properly) Thank you.
Oh…a “Jewish” anti-Islamic site. Of course!
Amazing how you say you have Jesus. Where was God when his son was being killed? You call that Grace? Merciful? You really think so bigheaded of yourself that you deserve to have someone die for you??
You do understand that we believe Jesus Christ Himself IS God in the flesh, don’t you? Your question of “where was God” is sort of nonsensical…God Himself WAS on the cross. He took human flesh, was born of the Virgin Mary, He suffered, died, and was buried, the third day He rose again. And none of us think we deserve to have someone die for us…you really don’t have a clue at all, do you!? The message of Christianity is that God took the form of a servant, suffered and died for us, even though we DON’T deserve it…that’s how much He loved us. Our God is loving…I don’t think the Quran ever describes God as loving His creatures, though. Man of himself is unable to merit eternal salvation…this is why we are only saved by the grace of God. I suppose that in Islam, you think man is good enough in himself to merit eternal life…Islam is a graceless religion.
The Creator who created all humankind and the unseen, the One Who creates, you think He needs you? You think He needs to have “HIS SON” whom yall claim “is” die for something He already created and One who is in control of DEATH AND LIFE. You really think this is a merciful God that you deserve to be treated with such “Grace”???
He didn’t need to. God could have saved us from our sins in any way He saw fit…but God demonstrated His love for us in that, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
He, our beautiful Creator is not in need of us, you must understand that or can you?
What ARE you talking about???
Americanrevert
A
Angelos
Guest
SHALOM
I am not judging anyone, but only expressing my disgust with the Islamic fraud rampant in this kind of religious forums.
The more you give me extra information about yourself and your abilities, the more my doubt about your religious origin increases.
According to your previous comments, only Muslim Arabs can understand the Koran perfectly well. If you really are an American of Indian origin, whatever you teach about Islam and the Koran comes to naught. However, your posts rather than your supposed ethnic origin prove that you know almost nothing about Mohammad’s ideology.
Who told you that Jesus was given a scripture in Hebrew or who told you that Jesus’ disciples were commanded to write His Gospel in Hebrew/Aramaic? Your Koran is somehow silent on the language and form of the supposed Injeel given to Jesus. LOL
More, your Koran implies that Jesus was given a book in GREEK when it uses the Arabic transliteration of the GREEK word for Gospel (Evangelion!). Even Jesus’ name in the Koran is erroneously derived from GREEK. Your scripture somehow replaces the Arabic word YESUWA with the word ISSA, which is closer to the Greek version of the name (ISUS).
I do not remember copying/pasting any article from Jewish sites while criticising the Koran.
It is actually YOU who resorts to such an act. You, very much like a parrot, repeat the Islamic allegations about Christianity when you copy and paste some irrational suppositions from anti-Christian sites and present them as facts. You also forget to state your source LOL
Amazing how you say you have Jesus whilst you prove to know nothing about Christian doctrines related to atonement and salvation.
God was present as the One offering His Son as a sacrifice for the remission of the sins on the altar of Golgotha.
Nevertheless, I do not know where Mohammad’s god was when many Jewish prophets were killed in the hands of their enemies? Why didn’t Mohammad’s god fail to save those prophets? Why did he save only Issa from death and why did he HAVE TO do that through a deceptive miracle??? How can Mohammad’s god be RIGHTEOUS and HONEST when he brags about fooling Jews through an illusion???
Why did Mohammad’s god NEED Jews and Christians to corrupt their scripure? Why did Mohammad’s god NEED to send many messengers to mankind? Why did Mohammad’s god NEED to let Jews KILL so many of his prophets? Why did Mohammad’s god NEED to wait until Mohammad’s era to establish Islam on earth and preserve his word???
Should I go on?
The Koran says Mohammad’s god NEEDS Muslims to worship him:
Surah 51:56
I created the jinn and humankind **only that they might worship Me. **
A
Americanrevert
Guest
Hello
Yes, I know what you are saying, trust me, I lived it, was taught it and believed it. (not now though). People on this forum have actually told me that Jesus is not God…so yall need to get your facts straight. If God was on the cross, who was he calling out to? Himself?
I do have clues…it’s just that I am asking you to verify it without just believing it…find me Jesus’ true words? His true message…not the message of “the church”, or “from pastors” (had those and went through them big time). I want to see the book of Jesus…surely a message such as God dyin should have 100% factual documents no? God doesn’t just leave to have His words constantly change by script writers or because “it is easier to stand this way” writers…some of the authors are not even known…so how can you show to me your belief is 100% accurate?? am talkin proof, not because ya just gotta have faith because the bible tells me so. …this isn’t proof.
I always have heard, “God is Love” etc. etc. etc…but when I read the old testament, and then when I started thinkin about it…killin “His OWN son”…that isn’t love to me…and dyin for someone He can simply make again…doesn’t add up…to kill His son, yet Him being God as you claim…impossible…surely that does mean God died. I am not insulting…am just reasoning here…other’s claim I am insulting…BUT I AM NOT.
Acutally, Allah is the Most Merciful, Most Beneficient. He forgives mankind like the foam of the sea…In Islam, it is said that Allah’s mercy on this earth is just 1% while on the Day of Judgment, it is 99%. The love Allah has for His believing servants we can’t even imagine.
So, I do know the difference.
Americanrevert
I know what you are trying to say…fine, but you also must realize that you cannot prove they are 100% factual. You cannot…the apostles…who were they? and might have been translated does not equal to accurate account. The book of Matthew we come to find out was not even written by him. This is my point. They were not given authority by God to say they were “inspired”…they were not messengers of God.
.
Yes, I know what you are saying, trust me, I lived it, was taught it and believed it. (not now though). People on this forum have actually told me that Jesus is not God…so yall need to get your facts straight. If God was on the cross, who was he calling out to? Himself?
I do have clues…it’s just that I am asking you to verify it without just believing it…find me Jesus’ true words? His true message…not the message of “the church”, or “from pastors” (had those and went through them big time). I want to see the book of Jesus…surely a message such as God dyin should have 100% factual documents no? God doesn’t just leave to have His words constantly change by script writers or because “it is easier to stand this way” writers…some of the authors are not even known…so how can you show to me your belief is 100% accurate?? am talkin proof, not because ya just gotta have faith because the bible tells me so. …this isn’t proof.
I always have heard, “God is Love” etc. etc. etc…but when I read the old testament,
and then when I started thinkin about it…killin “His OWN son”…that isn’t love to me…and dyin for someone He can simply make again…doesn’t add up…to kill His son, yet Him being God as you claim…impossible…surely that does mean God died. I am not insulting…am just reasoning here…other’s claim I am insulting…BUT I AM NOT.Acutally, Allah is the Most Merciful, Most Beneficient. He forgives mankind like the foam of the sea…In Islam, it is said that Allah’s mercy on this earth is just 1% while on the Day of Judgment, it is 99%. The love Allah has for His believing servants we can’t even imagine.
So, I do know the difference.
Americanrevert
A
Americanrevert
Guest
Hello,
You think this means that He needs us? Come on
This verse is the MAIN REASON WHY WE ARE PUT ON THE EARTH. This doesn’t mean God is needy in any way shape or form.
Americanrevert
So, you want to tell God why He created humans and jinns?
You think this means that He needs us? Come on
This verse is the MAIN REASON WHY WE ARE PUT ON THE EARTH. This doesn’t mean God is needy in any way shape or form.
Americanrevert
A
Americanrevert
Guest
Hello,
that is your problem not mine…you have to live with it not me. lol
according to my previous comments, I said, Arab Muslim Scholars in contrast to Christian Scholars…You must understand the vast origin of scholars…many are not arab even!..but I was just pointing out the different to them being Muslim and Arab having the advantage…So, you misunderstood yet again.
I don’t teach, I spread and those who accept may Allah reward them ameen Nothing comes to naught when you are doing things for the pleasure of Allah and in the name of Allah. We do get compensation for such goodness.
You are very rude in your assumptions. You just don’t know me and I could care less that you do. But please, am asking you kindly, point out what it is that I do not know and we can have an honest dialogue. If you are able.
Americanrevert
right…but you are the main one lol
that is your problem not mine…you have to live with it not me. lol
according to my previous comments, I said, Arab Muslim Scholars in contrast to Christian Scholars…You must understand the vast origin of scholars…many are not arab even!..but I was just pointing out the different to them being Muslim and Arab having the advantage…So, you misunderstood yet again.
I don’t teach, I spread and those who accept may Allah reward them ameen Nothing comes to naught when you are doing things for the pleasure of Allah and in the name of Allah. We do get compensation for such goodness.
You are very rude in your assumptions. You just don’t know me and I could care less that you do. But please, am asking you kindly, point out what it is that I do not know and we can have an honest dialogue. If you are able.
Americanrevert
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
Salaam/peace
In short , Quran does not say to kill apostates here . They will
get punishment on the last day …eteral hell fire .
Most probably based on hadith , if ex Muslims are fighting against Muslims, involved in ethnic cleansing of Muslims , they will get death penalty.
already answered in Ask about Islam thread . So , i requested to visit that .
In short , Quran does not say to kill apostates here . They will
get punishment on the last day …eteral hell fire .
Most probably based on hadith , if ex Muslims are fighting against Muslims, involved in ethnic cleansing of Muslims , they will get death penalty.
M
morning_star777
Guest
Read it again.
**.sura:004.088Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way. 004.089 They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;- **.
Read again,**Bukhari:Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Code:
Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
Code:
Narrated Abu Burda:
Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
Salaam/peace
- Status