Muslim friend first to send me a Christmas e-card

[catholic2]

The Pope is fallible outside the area of faith and morals.

 

[exoflare]

Though, the previous pope claimed that Moslems and Catholics worship the same god.

The Pope was right, but people project too many extras onto what he said. I don’t like how it’s often worded, the question of “which” god somebody is worshipping… In reality, there’s only one God, the single all-powerful God that truly exists, and this fact is not dependent of what people choose to believe.

It’s obvious that Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all paying lip-service to that one God. The only thing in question is, who is correct in their understanding of HIM?

 

[Montalban]

The Pope was right, but people project too many extras onto what he said. I don’t like how it’s often worded, the question of “which” god somebody is worshipping… In reality, there’s only one God, the single all-powerful God that truly exists, and this fact is not dependent of what people choose to believe.

It’s obvious that Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all paying lip-service to that one God. The only thing in question is, who is correct in their understanding of HIM?

That’s wrong. If I say I’m worshipping my ‘god’ and you say “There’s only one God, therefore I’m worshipping the same God” that’s false. You’d have to look at what my concept of God is… I might believe God to be a thing who came into being after the universe began. That is not the same as the God you worship

 

[Lion]

I am amazed at th thoughtfulness of my Muslim friend, who despite our religious differences, sent me a “Merry Christmas” e-card.

I feel blessed to have friends of different religions (Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists (though I don’t know any Jew—I know they are also good people), who look beyond what separates us–and still see a friend in me as I see a friend in them.

I know what you mean! I have Jewish friends, Muslim friends, Buddhist friends Hindu friends and friends of other religions and they all wish me a Merry Christmas! It’s the media and politicians who seem to have a hard time with it. I in turn try to recognize their feasts/celebrations with a salutation (Happy Yom Kippur doesn’t really work)… I’m sure you know what I mean.

 

[Lion]

Eugenia and Happygal,

would you be equally happy if you knew a demon had sent you a christmas e-card and be happy about your religious differences? You wouldn’t I guess.

Let me re-rephrase myself here.

The bible teaches (search this yourself), that the anti-christ is one who denies the Father and the Son and the deity of Christ. Do you know what your fellow muslim friend teaches? I suppose you don’t. Cos, otherwise you wouldn’t be this happy. You would fear for your spirit.

Islam festers upon the wheat that has been sown in christianity. Claiming its succession to the scriptural prophets and denouncing the resurrection of Christ and His deity.

THAT is as good as telling you that your religion is worthless, that Christ has NOT died for you, and your salvation is a VAIN. AND, here you are boasting about your friendship???

Do you even know what it means to be a christian?

Do you? The OP was expressing gratitude that someone of another faith took the time to recognize the OP’s beliefs (at least that is how I read it). I do not recall reading that this particular event has caused the OP to question their faith.
A demon has sent the ecard? My understanding is that humans can’t be demons… demons are fallen angels. I would suggest that perhaps it is you who is unclear about what it is to be Christian. You seem to have a “hate-on” for Muslims, how Christian is that? Would you not rather prefer to be on amicable terms with a professed Muslim so as to teach them our beliefs, or would you rather just “demonize” the lot of them?

 

[exoflare]

That’s wrong. If I say I’m worshipping my ‘god’ and you say “There’s only one God, therefore I’m worshipping the same God” that’s false. You’d have to look at what my concept of God is… I might believe God to be a thing who came into being after the universe began. That is not the same as the God you worship

That’s fine. I really think we agree but are using different terminology. It’s all irrelevent in the end, as I don’t agree with the Muslims on God’s nature to begin with.

 

[Montalban]

That’s fine. I really think we agree but are using different terminology. It’s all irrelevant in the end, as I don’t agree with the Muslims on God’s nature to begin with.

That’s wrong too. They believe that we who accept the Trinity are in fact attributing ‘partners’ to God. For them a ‘trinity’ is complete anathema.

“And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allaah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allaah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allaah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allaah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”

[al-Tawbah 9:31]

“Surely, they have disbelieved who say: ‘Allaah is the Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary).’ But the Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus)] said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord.’ Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers”

Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.
[al-Maa’idah 5:72, 73]

“Say (O Muhammad): ‘O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allaah (Alone), and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allaah.’ Then, if they turn away, say: ‘Bear witness that we are Muslims’”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:64]

They also say that their god is totally unknowable (as my understanding of their beliefs), whereas Christians believe that God is knowable (to an extent) through Jesus Christ, who is God and Man. Our God desires a relationship with us. Their god demands that they obey him. They say that their god is completely beyond human comprehension which is why it’s forbidden to depict him. We can depict God through Jesus. (And in your western tradition you depict God the Father a lot; such as Michelangelo’s God in the Sistine Chapel).

“We wish to clarify that the whole matter is very easy and that none of the above conditions or obligations are required. For Allah, the Almighty is above all comprehension and knows well the secrets of all hearts.”
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=1402&ln=eng

Also, check out their arguments here
answering-islam.com/ac7.htm#links

Moslems reject the notions of our God. The late pope’s personal error is remarkable

 

[Lion]

That’s wrong too. They believe that we who accept the Trinity are in fact attributing ‘partners’ to God. For them a ‘trinity’ is complete anathema.

“And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allaah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allaah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allaah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allaah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”

[al-Tawbah 9:31]

“Surely, they have disbelieved who say: ‘Allaah is the Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary).’ But the Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus)] said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord.’ Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers”

Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.
[al-Maa’idah 5:72, 73]

“Say (O Muhammad): ‘O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allaah (Alone), and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allaah.’ Then, if they turn away, say: ‘Bear witness that we are Muslims’”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:64]

They also say that their god is totally unknowable (as my understanding of their beliefs), whereas Christians believe that God is knowable (to an extent) through Jesus Christ, who is God and Man. Our God desires a relationship with us. Their god demands that they obey him. They say that their god is completely beyond human comprehension which is why it’s forbidden to depict him. We can depict God through Jesus. (And in your western tradition you depict God the Father a lot; such as Michelangelo’s God in the Sistine Chapel).

“We wish to clarify that the whole matter is very easy and that none of the above conditions or obligations are required. For Allah, the Almighty is above all comprehension and knows well the secrets of all hearts.”
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=1402&ln=eng

Also, check out their arguments here
answering-islam.com/ac7.htm#links

Moslems reject the notions of our God. The late pope’s personal error is remarkable

how about you start your own thread

 

[Montalban]

how about you start your own thread

You saying I can’t respond to what other people write?

 

[Lion]

You saying I can’t respond to what other people write?

RELAX!!!
What I’m saying is start your own thread… you obviously have a lot to say… so say it on a new thread. IMHO you have strayed from the original post, so start a new thread. I’d be interested.
BTW, I can attempt to draw a picture if this is still confusing to you

 

[Montalban]

RELAX!!!

I am.

What I’m saying is start your own thread… you obviously have a lot to say… so say it on a new thread. IMHO you have strayed from the original post, so start a new thread. I’d be interested.

I’ve dealt with the OP.

Here’s what I said…(post #56)

Montalban:

It goes to show that it’s irrelevant; the fact the person who sent the e-card is a Moslem.

They are not doing this act because of Islamic belief. They are simply doing a nice gesture at Christmas time.

There is no connection here between what they did and their faith.

It’s like saying one is amazed that the person who helped them on the street was an atheist.

BTW, I can attempt to draw a picture if this is still confusing to you

Thanks for the condescending tone. Had you wished to deal with the post above, you’d have done so.

 

[Jesusisgod]

Those of you who say that because there is ONE God, therefore all are worshipping the same God but with different understanding.

I feel very very sorry for you. Because you don’t even know what you’re saying.

Do you have an earthly father? One father right? If one day, someone comes up to you with a piece of rock and tells you, “hey, this is YOUR father and My father!”. What would you say to him?

Hug him and kiss him? ONE Father!

Please, if a demon appears to your islamic friend and tell him/her that its name is allah and then goes on to say that it was the one who saved the Jews from Egypt, would you join him to embrace his demon as your God? Afterall, both of you believe only in ONE God right? And, you might as well join the buddhists in worshipping God. Why even be a christian?

The bible says there is only ONE name under heaven by which mankind can be saved. JESUS. There is NO OTHER. Jesus Himself said “no one goes to the Father EXCEPT through me”.

I think the above is clear enough. If you even think that someone else with a different faith has the SAME God as you (if you call yourself a christian), YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. A very very serious problem. What is it? You don’t even know who you are worshipping.

 

[Jared123]

No, a muslim could not have been saved prior to the Savior’s coming to Earth simply because there were no muslims then.

Interesting thread. One thing is clear, that the value of the muslim friend is in himself and not the muslim faith, for the Koran forbids friendship with Christians and Jews.

This is a great post. I think some of you are missing the point with the opening post. The value is clearing on the Muslim friend. We are not saying that Islam is great or even good. My cousin who was a non practicing Catholic married a Muslim women. When she told her Mulsim parents that they were going to get married, (they had kept their relationship a sercret for years) her parents were very upset to the point of disowning her if she went through with it. They called off the wedding plans. My cousin finally agreed to converting to Islam and he had to change his name to a Muslim name. He also had to agree to raise his children as Muslims and he bascially can’t have contact with his Christian relatives anymore. Very sad, but we all tried to tell him not to marry her.

 

[Lion]

I am.

I’ve dealt with the OP.

Here’s what I said…(post #56)

Thanks for the condescending tone. Had you wished to deal with the post above, you’d have done so.

Again, IMHO you are not getting the OP’s point… they never said anything about the friend sending the e-card out of there Moslem belief, but was merely recognizing an act of kindness from a non-Christian.
You are more than welcome for my tone!!
And I plan to change it as soon as you stop sounding “holier than thou”.
I honestly do think you have a lot of interesting points/comments and hope you start your own thread. I will not respond to you on this thread anymore, but will respond by PM (unless of course you start your own thread )

 

[Jared123]

This is a great post. I think some of you are missing the point with the opening post. The value is clearly on the Muslim friend. We are not saying that Islam is great or even good. My cousin who was a non practicing Catholic married a Muslim women. When she told her Mulsim parents that they were going to get married, (they had kept their relationship a sercret for years) her parents were very upset to the point of disowning her if she went through with it. They called off the wedding plans. My cousin finally agreed to converting to Islam and he had to change his name to a Muslim name. He also had to agree to raise his children as Muslims and he bascially can’t have contact with his Christian relatives anymore. Then they were married. Very sad, but we all tried to tell him not to marry her.

 

[exoflare]

This is a great post. I think some of you are missing the point with the opening post. The value is clearing on the Muslim friend. We are not saying that Islam is great or even good. My cousin who was a non practicing Catholic married a Muslim women. When she told her Mulsim parents that they were going to get married, (they had kept their relationship a sercret for years) her parents were very upset to the point of disowning her if she went through with it. They called off the wedding plans. My cousin finally agreed to converting to Islam and he had to change his name to a Muslim name. He also had to agree to raise his children as Muslims and he bascially can’t have contact with his Christian relatives anymore. Very sad, but we all tried to tell him not to marry her.

For those reading this, don’t you think it’s the exception either! Muslims acting this way is quite the norm.

 

[exoflare]

That’s wrong too. They believe that we who accept the Trinity are in fact attributing ‘partners’ to God. For them a ‘trinity’ is complete anathema.

You’re right about how they see our beliefs. But that’s why I said from the beginning they have a flawed understanding of God. They make a strawman version of “God” to worship just as they make a strawman of each and every prophet up until Jesus (whom they consider just a prophet) that somehow “preached Islam” to everyone.

It’s also important to remember that probably 99% of Muslims don’t even know what “Trinity” even means and take the liberty of making their own definitions for it (like three gods).

Without getting bogged down in semantics, I really don’t see where we disagree with each other so I guess this whole dialogue has run it’s course. We both take the Catholic position on God and agree that the Muslim teaching on God is false… end of story.

 

[IsMiseSteise]

Jared123:

This is a great post. I think some of you are missing the point with the opening post. The value is clearing on the Muslim friend. We are not saying that Islam is great or even good. My cousin who was a non practicing Catholic married a Muslim women. When she told her Mulsim parents that they were going to get married, (they had kept their relationship a sercret for years) her parents were very upset to the point of disowning her if she went through with it. They called off the wedding plans. My cousin finally agreed to converting to Islam and he had to change his name to a Muslim name. He also had to agree to raise his children as Muslims and he bascially can’t have contact with his Christian relatives anymore. Very sad, but we all tried to tell him not to marry her.

I’m so sorry to hear this.

exoflare:

For those reading this, don’t you think it’s the exception either! Muslims acting this way is quite the norm.

Yeah, that’s what I’ve witnessed in my dealings with Muslims as well.

 

[exoflare]

What’s also funny is the fact that having a “Muslim name” is pretty much just a euphemism for having an Arabic name of any sort. Those people may be onto something, who say that Islam is just a political system disguised as a religion… I myself think it’s a very calculated means of spreading an Arab hegemony.

 

[Montalban]

Again, IMHO you are not getting the OP’s point… they never said anything about the friend sending the e-card out of there Moslem belief, but was merely recognizing an act of kindness from a non-Christian.
You are more than welcome for my tone!!

Therefore it’s irrelevant that they’re Moslem! And wow, they sent an e-card. No wonder they wanted to tell the whole world. What an effort that took.

I saw a Hindu pat a dog once. I should start a thread on that one too.

I responded to this point. I’ve responded to other points people have made. You seem to have taken exception to only me doing so, which makes the next statement ironic…

And I plan to change it as soon as you stop sounding “holier than thou”.

More projection.

I honestly do think you have a lot of interesting points/comments and hope you start your own thread. I will not respond to you on this thread anymore, but will respond by PM (unless of course you start your own thread

That’s up to you, of course, if you don’t respond, but obviously you think it’s okay for you to sound condescending, but not me (as you perceive me to be).