Muslim Inferiority Complex?

[dzheremi]

Hi bro. I know you do this for kick because your friend Planten is actually not responding to the issue of this thread.

Kicks? Well, maybe a little…I do get a kick out of some of the things that Planten comes up with, so sometimes I can’t resist a little good-natured ribbing, but mostly I would like Planten and others to see how some of their arguments used against Christianity do not bode well for their own religion (e.g., Christianity’s “racism” supposedly inherent in following a Jew in light of Muhammad’s/Islam’s race/tribe specific favoritism), so it is best to argue for their religion on its own merits. In fact, not doing that and instead resorting to attacking “Christianity” (in quotes because it is never true Christianity, but Islam’s distortion of it that they base their arguments on) makes it appear as though they have no merits with which to defend their religion, even if that might not be the case. Some do better jobs than others (Sister Amy, Harris).

Poor Muslim posters here. Everytime they don’t have anything to say in defence of their theology, they start attacking other people hoping that we will get caught in the quagmire of mud slinging contest. I feel tempted to respond in kind sometimes but I’m just too tired of this sick game.

Eh…we’re Christians. Doesn’t it come with the territory? Enjoy it what little you can, however you can. Think of it as an opportunity to correct another person’s misunderstanding, as they may think about these threads as an opportunity to correct ours (even though they usually never take it, as it is so much easier to just bash away at their strawman version of Christianity, as given to them by their prophet).

Maybe, just maybe, if any Muslims want to address this thread objectively, the issue is: Muslims are deemed to have inferiority complex. Some reasons offered that may contribute to this include inherent racial inclination of the Arabs, socio-cultural factor and spiritual religous factor. I did mention about Muslims/Allah relationship that’s akin to absolute master / slave relationship.

I think that the different relationships to God in Islam and Christianity are a good point…or at least I like this better than the idea of “inherent racial inclination of the Arabs”. I personally know several Arabs who are not like that (okay, yes, most of them are Christians, but they are still Arabs!), and I think that characterizing a whole race like that is just as racist as it would be assuming them to be, so let’s not fall into that trap.

I’m actually not sure I entirely agree with the premise of this thread to begin with. I think that some Muslims may have this problem, but certainly not all, and in the end it is no worse than the superiority complex of some Christians or Jews. In the end, it is a human problem, don’t you think? That’s another in the endless list of endless things for which we have to thank Jesus: in Him, we are all one, with no respect for national origin, race, sex, class, etc. We are finally free of this sick human construct.

Now, to live it…! That is a much bigger challenge and more important task than pointing out the faults of others. Really, I don’t think I’m any better than any Muslim, though I much prefer my relationship with God to theirs. That, I think, is a fundamental error some Muslims here make: They see Christians saying “Christianity is the best religion” and they think “Aha! You are saying that you are better than I am, because you are a Christian!” To my way of thinking, this is absolutely backwards and not at all what is being said. In my experience, the Christian does not and should not say “I am better than you because I am Christian”, but rather, “We are ALL made into better people through this Christian relationship with God”! Remember, “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed”? I know that this was changed recently, but I don’t want to confuse Muslims who might take a change in translation (to a more accurate one!) as evidence of “corruption”. Still the point stands: Humility! Always humility!

Let’s all have some. There’s enough to go around, no?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Maybe someone has a superiority complex… LOL

Sheer Arrogance.

For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

 

[Sister_Amy]

It seems to me that there are several issues at play.

First, Islam does preach Arab superiority.

Yet Muhammad himself said that an Arab is no greater than a non-Arab.

Second, there does seem to be an attitude that some Muslims have that want to be seen as successful so they do use items to show success.

Just Muslims? Or don’t all groups of people have some like this?

Third, there seem to be issue that Muhammed held and they have been transmitted into Islam. For example, why were his wives not allowed to remarry?

They were special, that way. Honored and revered. If they had wanted to remarry, they could have done that, just had to ask Muhammad for a divorce. But they all preferred this arrangement.

 

[ralphinal]

Yet Muhammad himself said that an Arab is no greater than a non-Arab.

And yet we are told that Arabic is the prefered language of God.

Just Muslims? Or don’t all groups of people have some like this?

Yep.

They were special, that way. Honored and revered. If they had wanted to remarry, they could have done that, just had to ask Muhammad for a divorce. But they all preferred this arrangement.

What about after he died?

 

[Sister_Amy]

And yet we are told that Arabic is the prefered language of God.

Really?

What about after he died?

What about after he died?

 

[ralphinal]

Really?

According to most Muslims that I have discussed this with, and most sources, the Qur’an can only be understood in Arabic and to its fullest by an Arab. Granted, this may just be a way of avoiding people like me criticising it. I have been told, on this forum, that God speaks Arabic.

What about after he died?

Could they re-marry then?

 

[Sister_Amy]

According to most Muslims that I have discussed this with, and most sources, the Qur’an can only be understood in Arabic and to its fullest by an Arab. Granted, this may just be a way of avoiding people like me criticising it. I have been told, on this forum, that God speaks Arabic.

Wouldn’t you agree that Shakespeare is best understood in English by an English speaker?

I’ve never heard that the Qur’an could be understood “to its fullest” only by an Arab. Islamic tradition does not even allow that really since if you think about it, many Islamic scholars have not been Arabs.

But the Shakespeare/English analogy in my opinions clarifies why Arabic is best for understanding the Qur’an.

Could they re-marry then?

They didn’t. Do you think they should have? Or that they wanted to?

 

[PerryJ]

You are all very ignorant and clearly know nothing of the Muslim faith. To say that Muslims are a violent and dangerous people is certainly a brash generalization.
What makes you all so high and mighty? What proof do you have of your faith’s perfection and truth? What about the “eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth” adage? To suggest that the Quran is violent and war-breeding is hypocritical: look at the Old Testament. Have you read the book of Genesis? The story of the Rapture is the most violent thing that I have ever read in a book, and I am a Stephen King fan.

I’m sure you all will stick to your guns about Catholicism and Islam, but just once try to open your eyes about other religions. In the Quran, it says to respect “all peoples of the book,” meaning Christians and Jews. Does your holy book say something of that sort? Maybe you better do some research before you go bashing anyone’s religion.

And by the way, no I am not Catholic, though I was raised one. I am agnostic and have great respect for faithful people of any kind. I know many faithful people and some of the most kind, charitable and peace-loving are Muslims. To say that they have an inferiority complex is pretty self-righteous.

Also, many Muslims are far more faithful than the average Christian.

I’m sure that this post will be taken down before most people will see it, but my point is not to be offensive or to say that Islam is better than Catholicism (in my opinion they are both valuable). All that I ask is that you rethink your statements. God is watching.

I wouldn’t be so fast to judging others on this subject. It is a complex subejct and I believe after reading many books on the subject that most of the opinions here are correct.

Certainly Mohammed had an inferiority complex. He was a conqueror of much Arab territory; yet, he was largely dismissed by both Christians and Jews. He felt that he was a new messiah; however, he was not able to convince anyone. He had to forcibly conquer and convert people. In ealry on his religion was changed many time to try and get people to accept his beliefs. It never worked. All of the Middle East was Christian. Their bowing to Mecca is the result of an inferiority complex from the Jews and Christians turning him down. He originally bowed to Jerusalem.

Once the Muslim conquered the Middle East and almost all of Christendom they were the most advanced and powerful civilization in the world. This is often overlooked as our teachings are focused on Western thought. When Christendom was finally able to at least protect itself from the Muslims the Muslims had a spiritual battle within themselves. How could they be denied the ability to conqueor all if they were truly the hand of God. What went wrong. They believed it was the infidels that were soiling them. They reverted back to the older ways, became fundamentlist with their theology. When this happened the Catholic Church and its support of science allowed the west to pass them in technology. This now created a dual personality for the Muslims. They were no longer the great power or the most advanced. They were getting an inferiority complex. They became more radical. To overcome this inferiority they decided that morally they were superior and that the infidels had to die. Economically they were inferior; however, morally they felt superior and still do.

Many of the TV personalities such as Katie Couric etc do not truly try to understand the Muslims. They look at everything in the current context. The Muslims have been a waring religion since the very beginning. They have never truly done anythinng other than kill and attack others. It is in there very religious identity. There have always been wars; however, their wars are focused on religion and the elimination of infidels. A much different concept. Does this mean all Muslim are radical? No, however, to believe that Bush created the world we live in is naive. We will always be infidels to them.

 

[MugenOne]

That’s correct. Most Arab Muslims say you can’t fully understand the quran if you can’t read or write Arabic. Muslims view the Qur’an as God’s direct words revealed in Arabic to Muhammad. Because the Qur’an stresses its Arabic nature, Muslim scholars believe that any translation cannot be more than an approximate interpretation, intended only as a tool for the study and understanding of the original Arabic text.Since fewer than 20 percent of Muslims speak Arabic, this means that most Muslims study the text only in translation. So how accurate are the Qur’an’s renderings into English? The record is mixed. Some are simply poor translations. Others adopt sectarian biases, and those that are funded by Saudi Arabia often insert political annotation. Since translators seek to convey not only text but also meaning, many rely on the interpretation (tafsir) of medieval scholars in order to conform to an “orthodox” reading.

According to most Muslims that I have discussed this with, and most sources, the Qur’an can only be understood in Arabic and to its fullest by an Arab. Granted, this may just be a way of avoiding people like me criticising it. I have been told, on this forum, that God speaks Arabic.

Could they re-marry then?

 

[Sister_Amy]

MugenOne, I’m curious, could you give me some examples of “political annotation” inserted into a Saudi-funded Qur’an translation please?

Thanks.

 

[MugenOne]

It has to do with the Jooz.

 

[PerryJ]

Maybe someone has a superiority complex… LOL

Sheer Arrogance.

For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

How was Mohammed humble as he attacked, killed and conquered other Arabs? Please explain. I am confused how one can do and be both?

 

[Sister_Amy]

It has to do with the Jooz.

An example, if you don’t mind?

 

[Sister_Amy]

How was Mohammed humble as he attacked, killed and conquered other Arabs? Please explain. I am confused how one can do and be both?

I really don’t know what you’re talking about.

I was quoting the words of Jesus according to Mark, and suggesting that the original post was full of arrogance, a superiority complex over Muslims.

 

[MugenOne]

Like “Guide us to the straight path, the path of those whom You have favored, not of those who have incurred Your wrath, nor of those who have gone astray”%between% has become, “Guide us to the Straight Way, the way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).”%between% Contemporary political disputes also pollute the translation, marring what should be a reflection of timeless religion. Whereas the Qur’an reports Moses’s address to the Israelites as “O my people! Enter the Holy Land that God has assigned unto you,”%between% the Saudi version twists the verse with modern politics, writing, “O my people! Enter the holy land (Palestine).”

 

[PerryJ]

I really don’t know what you’re talking about.

I was quoting the words of Jesus according to Mark, and suggesting that the original post was full of arrogance, a superiority complex over Muslims.

I understand the quote. I am asking if you believe in humilty how do you support Islam and Mohammed. Mohammed did not appear to show humility. He was a conqueror that killed people that did not follow his beliefs. He also had people assasinated that wrote descriptive paradies about him. How is this humble?

 

[ralphinal]

Wouldn’t you agree that Shakespeare is best understood in English by an English speaker?

I’ve never heard that the Qur’an could be understood “to its fullest” only by an Arab. Islamic tradition does not even allow that really since if you think about it, many Islamic scholars have not been Arabs.

But the Shakespeare/English analogy in my opinions clarifies why Arabic is best for understanding the Qur’an.

Perhaps, but if the truth is in the words, then the language should not matter. Yes, all translations lose something, but if they are Divine in origin, it should not matter.

They didn’t. Do you think they should have? Or that they wanted to?

Where they forbidden to by Muhammed?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Like “Guide us to the straight path, the path of those whom You have favored, not of those who have incurred Your wrath, nor of those who have gone astray”%between% has become, “Guide us to the Straight Way, the way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).”%between% Contemporary political disputes also pollute the translation, marring what should be a reflection of timeless religion. Whereas the Qur’an reports Moses’s address to the Israelites as “O my people! Enter the Holy Land that God has assigned unto you,”%between% the Saudi version twists the verse with modern politics, writing, “O my people! Enter the holy land (Palestine).”

Heh. You’re talking about the Muhsin Khan translation, then. It is unique in that it extensively adds commentary in many verses. I don’t see anything political in either of those contexts, just a feature of the Muhsin Khan translation that there are lots of paranthetical remarks.

On the other hand, the Saheeh International translation is also produced in Saudi Arabia, yet it does not have this extra commentary.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I understand the quote. I am asking if you believe in humilty how do you support Islam and Mohammed. Mohammed did not appear to show humility. He was a conqueror that killed people that did not follow his beliefs. He also had people assasinated that wrote descriptive paradies about him. How is this humble?

Which book did you read about Muhammad to know how he lived?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Perhaps, but if the truth is in the words, then the language should not matter. Yes, all translations lose something, but if they are Divine in origin, it should not matter.

All translations lose something, and translations are the work of men. Even when it comes to the Qur’an, there is no divine authoritative translation.

Where they forbidden to by Muhammed?

Forbidden? No I don’t think forbidden is the right word…

With the exception of Aishah, all his wives were either widows or divorced before marrying him. They weren’t supposed to marry after him, but I don’t know the specifics, sorry. I don’t think he forbade it exactly, but to be honest I’m not entirely sure.