Muslim Inferiority Complex?

[planten]

**Examples are useful. When we present a similar question to any christian, they say it is irrelevant. Why it is irrelevant? It is some kind of relation. And we have Mary as the wife of god the father as a good example from the Jesus mother and father. Then perhaps you people get upset too quickly and say it is irrelevant.

You may not believe that Mary is the wife of God. But you do believe that she is the mother of Jesus who is son of God. So where does all that lead to? I had written that it is a spiritual matter that Muhamamd is the father of all believers and his wives are the mothers of the believers. That is as per Quran.

After that there should be no question about the marriage of the wives of the prophet after his death to any believer. But every one is busy continuing that bad line against Muslims. So all those should first explain the relation between Mary and the Father God of Jesus.**

 

[PerryJ]

** dzhereme, I have replied to that problem to inJesus. I hope you will read that too. These are matters of faith and our liking too. The prophet is our spiritual father. His wives are our mothers. That is written in the Quran but you people are not noting that.

So it is forbidden to marry the wives of the prophet. There are so many other ladies in the world. We can marry them. Why only look for marriage to a mother?

I know you people get excited and get hot when I reply you in the same coin. You have problems with Mary and Jesus. You want Mary to be virgin even after giving birth to Jesus. Why is that? is that necessary? And then she should bear more children and still remain a virgin?

I ask why that is necessary? Is it not some inner selfish desire in your minds that it should be so? Then if you want it like that then please leave some room for the other faiths too in similar manner.**

Did not Muhammed mary his step son’s wife? His step son divorce his wife in order that Muhammed could marry her. Is this not true?

 

[PerryJ]

**Examples are useful. When we present a similar question to any christian, they say it is irrelevant. Why it is irrelevant? It is some kind of relation. And we have Mary as the wife of god the father as a good example from the Jesus mother and father. Then perhaps you people get upset too quickly and say it is irrelevant.

You may not believe that Mary is the wife of God. But you do believe that she is the mother of Jesus who is son of God. So where does all that lead to? I had written that it is a spiritual matter that Muhamamd is the father of all believers and his wives are the mothers of the believers. That is as per Quran.

After that there should be no question about the marriage of the wives of the prophet after his death to any believer. But every one is busy continuing that bad line against Muslims. So all those should first explain the relation between Mary and the Father God of Jesus.**

As I have posted I am curiosu about his step son divorcing his wife in order for Muhammed could mary her. Was he lusting after her?

 

[PerryJ]

**inJesus, There is no such thing. It is just fanciful ideas of people. The prophet is the spiritual head (father) of all believers and the wives of the prophet are the mothers of the believers. I hope that you had read that verse saying the wives of the prophet are the mothers of the believers.

Now you would not like to marry your mother? Would you?**

I have an unrelated question that I wanted to understand better.

When the Devil confused Muhammed and he approved the worship of the three Goddess, how do you reconcile that he was wrong. If the Devil tricked him once, how do you know that he wasn’t tricked more than once?

For example in the Quaran or even his marriage to his step son’s wife.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

… Was he lusting after her?

I mentioned already that she was own cousin of the Prophet . If Prophet wanted to marry her , he was allowed to do so at any time , as in Islam , there is no bar on marrying cousin .

Why he arranged her marriage with his slave if he had lust for her ? Pl. apply your God gifted logic & intelligence . Don’t be misguided by anti-Islam media.

Zaid had no blood relationship with the Prophet . God told believers to call people by their father’s name . Just by calling someone as son , one can’t become like one’s own son. At least not in Islam.

 

[inJESUS]

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Salaam/peace

I mentioned already that she was own cousin of the Prophet . If Prophet wanted to marry her , he was allowed to do so at any time , as in Islam , there is no bar on marrying cousin .

Why he arranged her marriage with his slave if he had lust for her ? Pl. apply your God gifted logic & intelligence . Don’t be misguided by anti-Islam media.

Zaid had no blood relationship with the Prophet . God told believers to call people by their father’s name . Just by calling someone as son , one can’t become like one’s own son. At least not in Islam.

doesn’t Allah tell him not to conceal what’s in his heart ? and doesn’t the hadith say he saw her in a different light?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

doesn’t Allah tell him not to conceal what’s in his heart ?

it came later when Zaid had problem with wife & wanted to divorce her . Just tell me why Prophet did not marry her earlier , what was the problem then ? Why arrange marriage of his cousin if he had lust for her , why asked the slave to divorce her & then marry a divorced lady ? Prophet could marry her before all these complications.

 

[inJESUS]

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Salaam/peace

it came later when Zaid had problem with wife & wanted to divorce her .

When thou saidst to him whom God had blessed and thou hadst favoured, ‘Keep thy wife to thyself, and fear God,’ and thou wast CONCEALING WITHIN THYSELF what God should reveal…

he had concealed feelings when she was still a married woman, which is called adultry in the Bible and breaks one of the 10 commandmants.

As to the why it happened after Zaid married her, Al-Tabari states:

Zaynab had dressed in haste when she was told “the Messenger of God is at the door.” She jumped up in haste and excited the admiration of the Messenger of God, so that he turned away murmuring something that could scarcely be understood. However, he did say overtly: "Glory be to God the Almighty! Glory be to God, who causes the hearts to turn!".

Let’s check what Al-Qurtubi says in this regard (translation from the Arabic link):

quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?
l=arb&taf=KORTOBY&nType=1&nSora=33&nAya=50

As for what was granted and made lawful (by Allah) to the prophet –pbuh– they are 16 issues:-

First: To be fair with the spoils.
Second: To (forcefully) take a fifth of a fifth or just a fifth (of the spoils of war).
Third: “Al Wisal” (Dimitrius- the fast or fasting. This usually refers to fasting or abstaining from food.)
Fourth: To take more than four women.
Fifth: To marry, “Yas-tan-kih” (or have intercourse), with a woman who verbally pronounces her dedication (to the prophet).
Sixth: To marry, “Yas-tan-kih,” without the presence (or permission) of a legal guardian.
Seventh: To marry, “Yas-tan-kih,” without a dowry.
Eighth: To marry (and have intercourse) during a state of ritual consecration and purification.
Ninth: The annulment of an oath he may make to his wives.
Tenth:** If Muhammad looks at a woman (and desires her) THEN IT IS NECESSARY FOR HER HUSBAND TO DIVORCE HER AND FOR MUHAMMAD TO MARRY HER**. Ibn Al A’raby said, “This is what the servant of the two holy mosques has also said, as was clear to the scholars **FROM THE STORY OF ZAID **which also had this meaning.”
Eleventh: That the prophet released Safiyyah (from her captured status) and he considered her release as her dowry.
Twelfth: To enter Mecca without being in a state of ritual purification.
Thirteenth: To fight in Mecca.
Fourteenth: That he is not inherited by anyone at all. This was mentioned in the oath of absolution for when a man approaches death due to illness, most of his possessions are taken away, so that he does not have more than a third left for him. But the possessions of the prophet remained for him, as is evidenced in the verse of inheritance and in Surat Mariam.
Fifteenth: His marriage is still considered effective after his death.
Sixteenth: If he divorces a woman she remains prohibited to everyone and may not be married, “Nikah,” to someone else.

Al-Sira al-Halabiyya, agrees with al-Qurtubi that Muhammad could have caused a man to divorce his wife if he so desired to have her:

“If Muhammad lusted after a married woman, it became a must for her husband to divorce her for him.” (Al-Halabi, Al-Sira al-Halabiyya, Volume III, p. 377)

Al-Zamakhshari’s commentary on this subject:

Keep thy wife to thyself: that is, Zainab bint Jahsh. After having given her to Zaid ibn Haritha as a wife, the Messenger of God once caught sight of her, and she made an impression of him. At this sight he said: ‘**Praise be to God who changes the heart!’ **Previously his soul had turned away from her so that he had not desired her (as a wife). If he had desired her at that time, he would have asked her for her hand in marriage. Now Zainab heard of this praise and mentioned it to (her husband) Zaid, who understood and to whom God gave antipathy against her and aversion to intimacy with her. So Zaid said to the Messenger of God: ‘I might divorce my wife’; to which the latter replied: ‘What is it? Has something filled you with mistrust against her?’ Zaid answered: ‘By God, no! I have observed only good in her; yet her noble rank places her too high above me and causes me to feel hurt.’ Thereupon the Messenger of God said: ‘Keep thy wife to thyself and fear God.’ But Zaid (nevertheless) separated from her, and as soon as the waiting period (during which the wife may enter into no new marriage) had elapsed, the Messenger of God had said (to Zaid): ‘I have no one whom I trust more than you; therefore, seek the hand of Zainab for me!’

 

[MugenOne]

If Mohammed was truly a holy man, then y’all wouldn’t have this kind of problems trying to defend him. How can you defend someone who lusted, killed, murdered, executed, and tortured his way to power? Then, justified his evil deeds by forming a ambiguous religion that contribute nothing to humanity except chaos to the world’s peace and tranquility.

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

it came later when Zaid had problem with wife & wanted to divorce her . Just tell me why Prophet did not marry her earlier , what was the problem then ? Why arrange marriage of his cousin if he had lust for her , why asked the slave to divorce her & then marry a divorced lady ? Prophet could marry her before all these complications.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

If Mohammed was truly a holy man, then y’all wouldn’t have this kind of problems trying to defend him.

lol…visit Jewish site/forum ; any true Christian will need to defend his/her lord Jesus (p) & mom of God

 

[PerryJ]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

lol…visit Jewish site/forum ; any true Christian will need to defend his/her lord Jesus (p) & mom of God

I am confused by this e-mail. I have spoken with many Jews and they believe Christ was blasphemous. I find this understandable as he professed he was God. What I do not understand is the comparison between Christ and Muhammed as your posts states.

This is no record of Christ marrying. Marrying an already married woman. In fact he states that divorce is not allowed in the Bible. Can you tell if the Bible and Jesus statements concerning divorce are refute by Muhammed? If so where? How is this corrected in the Quran? Was the Bible changed? Where these Bible versus cut out?

This is also no record of Christ killing or demanding money from anyone. If you recall in the year 70 a Bar Kokhba lead the Jewish people as a messiah and attacked Rome. Jerusalem was detroyed and he was killed. Our faith shows how this reinforces Christ’s message. Love not war is the true path. I believe Muhammed states that Christ got it wrong. So you you believe that reverting back to war is the correct path?

As you know the Middle East was entirely Christian; until, Muhammed conquered it. As you are probably aware also if you have read about him. He forcibly converted the Christians. A great number of Christian marytrs were killed. If he was the truth why would so many have to be killed? Christ did not requests his followers to war or kill. In fact it was the opposite. His followers repeatedly gave up their life for God instead of killing others. Can you explain to me the difference?

 

[planten]

I am confused by this e-mail. I have spoken with many Jews and they believe Christ was blasphemous. I find this understandable as he professed he was God. What I do not understand is the comparison between Christ and Muhammed as your posts states.

PJ, Jesus did not claim divinity. He did not ask any one to worship him. Christians have made it up. Even if Jews blamed Jesus for blasphemy, you are ready to support those Jews. What role you are playing? The role of the enemies of Jesus who were ready to accuse Jesus and have him caught. So you are wrong.

This is no record of Christ marrying. Marrying an already married woman. In fact he states that divorce is not allowed in the Bible. Can you tell if the Bible and Jesus statements concerning divorce are refute by Muhammed? If so where? How is this corrected in the Quran? Was the Bible changed? Where these Bible versus cut out?

**You are wrong again. Jesus did not marry. Well and good. But did he tell you not to marry? He did not. He never said divorce is not allowed. It is like every religion that divorce is a very bad thing and that what Jesus said.

But you made it up too much and almost forbade the divorce. So the christian people had to forsake the religion and take shelter under the legislation of divorce. So where went the church faith the day the christians got passed the law for divorce. That was quite anti-Jesus according to you…

Jesus never said any word against the prevalent law of the Jews. He was a Jew, living amongst the Jews. All his friends were practicing Jews. Jesus could not utter any word against the law of the Jews. Please remember that. He never said any word against polygamy too.**

This is also no record of Christ killing or demanding money from anyone. If you recall in the year 70 a Bar Kokhba lead the Jewish people as a messiah and attacked Rome. Jerusalem was detroyed and he was killed. Our faith shows how this reinforces Christ’s message. Love not war is the true path. I believe Muhammed states that Christ got it wrong. So you you believe that reverting back to war is the correct path?

**Of course Jesus did not have any chance to kill any one. He did not want to kill any innocent person. He followed the Roman law and the personal law of the Jews. Muhammad never said that Jesus got it wrong. You have got wrong information please.

Muhammad also did not like the wars. War was always impose on Muhammad. He retaliated and defended himself. He was able to defeat the aggressors. No harm, no bone broken unjustly.**

As you know the Middle East was entirely Christian; until, Muhammed conquered it. As you are probably aware also if you have read about him. He forcibly converted the Christians. A great number of Christian marytrs were killed. If he was the truth why would so many have to be killed? Christ did not requests his followers to war or kill. In fact it was the opposite. His followers repeatedly gave up their life for God instead of killing others. Can you explain to me the difference?

**PJ, wrong statement again. Middle east was not at all christian. There were some parts under the christians (such as Jerusalem). The rest of Arabia was all pagan. You are accusing Muhammad. he never forced any one to convert to Islam. He never killed or persecuted any one for the different faith.

Jesus did not kill any one and he did not go to war. Reading the four gospels i.e. biography of Jesus, can you tell me if Jesus ever had a chance to kill any one? It was hard for Jesus to save himself from his enemies. So he prayed to God and God saved him.**

 

[PerryJ]

PJ, Jesus did not claim divinity. He did not ask any one to worship him. Christians have made it up. Even if Jews blamed Jesus for blasphemy, you are ready to support those Jews. What role you are playing? The role of the enemies of Jesus who were ready to accuse Jesus and have him caught. So you are wrong.

**Christ did profess he was God. As God can only be one immovable to be one with God is to be the one immovable. There are many more such verses.

“I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)**

**You are wrong again. Jesus did not marry. Well and good. But did he tell you not to marry? He did not. He never said divorce is not allowed. It is like every religion that divorce is a very bad thing and that what Jesus said.

But you made it up too much and almost forbade the divorce. So the christian people had to forsake the religion and take shelter under the legislation of divorce. So where went the church faith the day the christians got passed the law for divorce. That was quite anti-Jesus according to you…**

**Christ certainly did state divorce was wrong. Catholics do not allow divorce. We only allow that if a marriage was not proper due to certain circumstance that God did not bind the marriage. This is much different. Muhhamed made no statement that his step son’s marriage was invalid. He allowed the divorce and then married her. This is in direct contrast to Jesus statements. **

Luke 16:18: No divorce, on any grounds: "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery."

Many Christian faith state that divorce is correct based upon Moses teachings etc. They are in error as Jesus rebuked these teachings. Did not Muhammed place Abraham supreme over Moses as a prophet also?

"]** Jesus never said any word against the prevalent law of the Jews. He was a Jew, living amongst the Jews. All his friends were practicing Jews. Jesus could not utter any word against the law of the Jews. Please remember that. He never said any word against polygamy too.**

**Of course Jesus did not have any chance to kill any one. He did not want to kill any innocent person. He followed the Roman law and the personal law of the Jews. Muhammad never said that Jesus got it wrong. You have got wrong information please.

Muhammad also did not like the wars. War was always impose on Muhammad. He retaliated and defended himself. He was able to defeat the aggressors. No harm, no bone broken unjustly.**

It is well documented that Muhammed attacked the traveling carvans from Mecca when he was in Medina. How did these carvans of merchants threaten him? Please explain.

**PJ, wrong statement again. Middle east was not at all christian. There were some parts under the christians (such as Jerusalem). The rest of Arabia was all pagan. You are accusing Muhammad. he never forced any one to convert to Islam. He never killed or persecuted any one for the different faith.

Jesus did not kill any one and he did not go to war. Reading the four gospels i.e. biography of Jesus, can you tell me if Jesus ever had a chance to kill any one? It was hard for Jesus to save himself from his enemies. So he prayed to God and God saved him.**

Your statement is true concerning the Arabian Penisula that Muhammed was raised. The Middle East was entirely Christian. Syria etc were all Christian until Muslims invaded conquerored and forced conversion. This can be found in secular historical records. I can provide books to give this information to you.

Your statement that he never persecuted others. What about the three poets in Mecca? Their offence was to write poetry in defiance of him. His words have been recorded asking others to assisinate these poets.

 

[ralphinal]

Luke 9:54 the apostles asked Jesus if they should call fire down from heaven and destroy the village, Jesus told them no. Notice that he did not say that they did not ahve the power.

Just one example of Jesus not killing when he could have

 

[PerryJ]

I would also like to follow up his approval to worship three goddesses. At later date he stated he was tricked by the Devil and then stopped the practice. How do you not know that his other beliefs were the trick of the Devil?

I am truly curious how this is reconciled.

What happened to the rich men that proposed that the three Goddesses existed and should be worshipped? Do you know? I am curious how this was handled.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

…Just one example of Jesus not killing when he could have

There are many examples when Muhammed (p) could have destroyed the whole city , but he did not.

angles came to Muhammed (p) & told God is asking if he wants to destroy the people of Taif for injuring him. Prophet answered No. May be , this people won’t accept Islam but next generations will .

When he conquered Macca , he had thousands armed soldiers with him ; he did not take any personal revenge .

 

[PerryJ]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

There are many examples when Muhammed (p) could have destroyed the whole city , but he did not.

angles came to Muhammed (p) & told God is asking if he wants to destroy the people of Taif for injuring him. Prophet answered No. May be , this people won’t accept Islam but next generations will .

When he conquered Macca , he had thousands armed soldiers with him ; he did not take any personal revenge .

If he was a great prophet why did he take soldiers at all?

Are you aware of the story of Barabas and Christ. Barabas was a freedom fighter. Christ was not. Both were brought before the people to see which would be crucified. The people chose the freedom fighter over the lamb of God, Christ. The message to us is not to live in this world. We are to be above war. Yet Muhammed takes the exact opposite approach. He embraces war. Again I ask why does a great prophet of God need an army. Would not his words not be enough?

 

[Sam_777]

**You are wrong again. Jesus did not marry. **

I cannot believe my eyes, is that you planten saying that .
So can we understand that you wouldn’t open the heresy about Mary Magdalen again.

 

[planten]

If he was a great prophet why did he take soldiers at all?

Are you aware of the story of Barabas and Christ. Barabas was a freedom fighter. Christ was not. Both were brought before the people to see which would be crucified. The people chose the freedom fighter over the lamb of God, Christ. The message to us is not to live in this world. We are to be above war. Yet Muhammed takes the exact opposite approach. He embraces war. Again I ask why does a great prophet of God need an army. Would not his words not be enough?

Muhammad had two names, i.e. Ahmad and Muhammad.
Ahmad= Parclete= The cool, the Comforter= the loving, the gentle=The one with Beauty i.e. Jamaal=, the one who praises Allah most of all people.= The One like Jesus.

Muhammad= The praised one= The one whom Allah praises most= The one who has power and glory. i.e Jalaal.= The One like Moses a.s.

So whereas Jesus had only one role as a nice and loving, peaceful teacher, Muhammad had the dual role. First the role of Jesus for 13 years in Makkah where he was highly persecuted but did not resist. He worked like Jesus a.s.

Later when he shifted to Madinah, he was attacked by the infidels (pagans) of Makkah, his old enemies who had turned him out of the city of Makkah. Those pagans were liable deserved to be killed any time. Muhammad defended himself and his followers. He acted like Moses a.s. That was not any sinful act. He saved the believers and routed the enemies of all faiths. he was victorious.

 

[inJESUS]

Muhammad the paraclete? so you believe Muhammad to be God? why don’t you quote the passages that refute you, instead of giving us some unfounded poetry about a man’s name?