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cyberwolf001
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Just throwing out denominations that have Bishops that dress like that is all.
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JohnVIII
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Wow! I used to think the divisions of Christianity were bad, but now I see your faith and I realize that we don’t have it so bad after all!
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Lief_Erikson
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Oh, come on. There are tens of thousands of Protestant denominations. If they’ve only got 72 splits (though I bet there are more, and he’s talking about the biggies or the ancient historical ones when he says 72), they’re not doing so bad in comparison.
As for the story, like the rest of you, I’d want to see verification.
Though even if it was true, that wouldn’t undermine Christianity, for Christianity does teach about lying signs and wonders, and I believe that there have been real lying NDE’s and other spiritual phenomenon. The real measuring stick is if they appear to contradict Christian teaching, or have been declared invalid by the Church. If they have been, we can know them to be deceptive, even if real supernatural phenomenon.
We really need evidence before giving this account credence, though, anyway. It’s true that I’d probably not be all that skeptical if it was a Catholic religious experience, so yes, I’m biased, and I am convinced just about everyone is. I feel non-Christian religious experiences can easily be dangerous territory, as they don’t have the safeguards one has in Christianity, and especially in Catholicism.
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JohnVIII
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I don’t count the Protestants. Only historic Christian Churches. Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, Armenian - that’s about it!
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Lief_Erikson
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Not all the Orthodox are in communion with each other. There are many branches there. The Coptic are one, the Syriac are another, the Eastern are of course the big one, and I think, though I could be wrong, that the Russian are separate from the Eastern Orthodox. I’m not sure where the Spanish Orthodox or others fit in. Also, it seems a bit arbitrary to exclude the Protestant Christians. I know they don’t have the historical roots, but even so. The Vatican considers them to be Christian, though it classifies them as Christian “ecclesiastical communities” rather than “churches.”
It’s true that the word “Christian” is losing a lot of its meaning nowadays, because it is applied so broadly that it includes heretics as well as Catholics, and seculars often call themselves Christian or Catholic without living it
. That’s life. I’m glad the word “Catholic” at any rate still has a pretty specific meaning, even though some people can deviate from that meaning the Church has given it if they choose, to their own downfall.
It’s true that the word “Christian” is losing a lot of its meaning nowadays, because it is applied so broadly that it includes heretics as well as Catholics, and seculars often call themselves Christian or Catholic without living it
. That’s life. I’m glad the word “Catholic” at any rate still has a pretty specific meaning, even though some people can deviate from that meaning the Church has given it if they choose, to their own downfall.
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cyberwolf001
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But there is Liberal Catholic, Old Catholic, Reformed Catholic, Gnostic Catholic and hundreds more.It’s true that the word “Christian” is losing a lot of its meaning nowadays, because it is applied so broadly that it includes heretics as well as Catholics, and seculars often call themselves Christian or Catholic without living it
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Lief_Erikson
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That’s why I added to my statement, “though some people can deviate from that meaning [of the word Catholic] the Church has given it if they choose, to their own downfall.” I agree that there are plenty of people who call themselves Catholics and yet are in reality heretics.
Provided the Catholics don’t teach or believe that which contradicts the Church’s official teaching, they aren’t heretics. If they do, they are heretics. The truth lies with Peter, and with him is the nature of Catholicism and of what it means to be a real Catholic.
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Lief_Erikson
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I know that. I’m just saying that the broader the umbrella word “Christian” spreads, and the more differences of belief it comes to include, the more and more unclear its meaning becomes. That’s why I prefer more specific words, like “Catholic,” or “Orthodox,” which do have fairly specific meanings, even though the meaning of the term “Orthodox” seems more diffuse to me because in Orthodoxy there is less centralization of power and fewer dogmas than there are in Catholicism.
Oh. That I didn’t know. Thanks for enlightening me!
Oh. That I didn’t know. Thanks for enlightening me!
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Lief_Erikson
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Agreed.
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dzheremi
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Let us presume for a second that the story is true. Do you know what would have been an even greater miracle? If gangs of roving gunmen hadn’t killed this man in the first place! I can think of other Christian clergy, real ones, who could have used such a miracle, but I guess such miracles don’t come from Imam Ali for actual Christians, only fake ones that you make up.
Those real Christians, by the way, are often killed precisely because they refuse to convert to Islam, or because their (incidentally Muslim) kidnappers know that they can kill them and no one will take revenge since the Christians do not have the protection of militias like the Muslims do. It’s sick.
Those real Christians, by the way, are often killed precisely because they refuse to convert to Islam, or because their (incidentally Muslim) kidnappers know that they can kill them and no one will take revenge since the Christians do not have the protection of militias like the Muslims do. It’s sick.
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tqualey
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Hi, Famdigy,
Thank you for this most interesting thread.
In answer to your question about Paul. Ultimately, the answer rests on Faith. But this is not some mythical dream - the entire Old Testament proclaimed a Messiah would come - and rescue mankind form sin. Our common religous ancestor Abram had this Faith and proved his devotion with his obedience to God. Christ proclaimed He was the Son of God and rose from the dead in proof thereof. No one else has made such a prediction and actually did it. This same risen Christ is what you are referring to as having shown Himself to Saul of Tarsus enroute to Damascus. Christ promised that His Holy Spirit would guide His Church and protect it from error - and this was about 700 before the founding of Islam.
The individual activities of a Christian Bishop are always noteworthy - especially, when one with the fullness of the priesthood abandons his vows. He is honestly responsible for his own actions. Who knows, maybe there will be a reduction in the number of sectarian murders that take place … maybe there will be more toleration for one another’s beliefs. You know, God can work good from any event - if we have Faith in Him.
Tell me, is it true that those who convert from Islam to Christianity face a n immediate death penalty. And those who try to preach the Word of God risk imprisonment and/or assassination. Notice the Pope did not sentence the Bishop to death. Hooded nuns will not strap bombs to their bodies to blow up this Bishop and everyone else they can kill. Armed monks will not round up his household and torture them before killing them in the desert. Maybe these differences are worth noting, even though the Bishop has changed, there is no reason why you can not change to Catholic.
God bless
Thank you for this most interesting thread.
I think Dixibhr is on the right track - but, that is a personal conclusion I have drawn.
In answer to your question about Paul. Ultimately, the answer rests on Faith. But this is not some mythical dream - the entire Old Testament proclaimed a Messiah would come - and rescue mankind form sin. Our common religous ancestor Abram had this Faith and proved his devotion with his obedience to God. Christ proclaimed He was the Son of God and rose from the dead in proof thereof. No one else has made such a prediction and actually did it. This same risen Christ is what you are referring to as having shown Himself to Saul of Tarsus enroute to Damascus. Christ promised that His Holy Spirit would guide His Church and protect it from error - and this was about 700 before the founding of Islam.
The individual activities of a Christian Bishop are always noteworthy - especially, when one with the fullness of the priesthood abandons his vows. He is honestly responsible for his own actions. Who knows, maybe there will be a reduction in the number of sectarian murders that take place … maybe there will be more toleration for one another’s beliefs. You know, God can work good from any event - if we have Faith in Him.
Tell me, is it true that those who convert from Islam to Christianity face a n immediate death penalty. And those who try to preach the Word of God risk imprisonment and/or assassination. Notice the Pope did not sentence the Bishop to death. Hooded nuns will not strap bombs to their bodies to blow up this Bishop and everyone else they can kill. Armed monks will not round up his household and torture them before killing them in the desert. Maybe these differences are worth noting, even though the Bishop has changed, there is no reason why you can not change to Catholic.
God bless
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atassina
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First, show the proof and then point fingers at Catholics. You still continue to dodge the central issues: Show us proof that this man is or was a Catholic bishop. Show us real photographic evidence of drawings/paintings of Mohammed.
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benedictus2
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Gnostic Catholics are not Catholic. Gnositicism is a heretical religions.
Liberal Catholic, reformed, etc, etc may be labels that people attached their own slant on how they live their faith but unless their faith is in concordance with magisterial teaching then they are really Catholic in name only.
There are so many so called “catholics” who if you turn the leaf over you will find anything but.
They have doned what Peter Kreeft calls a paper thin cover of Catholicism.
These dissident members of the Catholic church will remain that, dissident members. They are NOT the Catholic Church.
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swariffin
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- There were about 500 people and some were still live in the year of 45-60AD, the year that the gospel were written.
- At that point, Yes indeed and absolutely. When Jesus was still alive only the disciple did.
- All of them. Go ahead and buy the book about the saints. For further historical record, they are in the Vatical library. Go and find the process of them being cannonized.
- The proof is, they would not be tortured and died peacefully in their old age if they deny Jesus during their captivity. The fact that they were tortured till death was already the proof.
- The Catholic believe some truth in other religion too. The truth must be from God, only and only if such truth bring goodness to mankind. We do not and never monopolized on how (or the manner that) God would reveal Himself to human beings.
- Miracles are acknowledged by the RCC following very strict criteria.
- I cannot comment on Fr. Thamir until I see how he behaves in the rest of his life, and given the chance to live outside muslim majority country. Many Phillipinos converted to Islam during their work time in SA, because of close relationships with the muslims. But, they became Catholic again when they return back to PI.
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Ridgerunner
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I guess the OP doesn’t want to answer questions about his religion, and just came here to tell a big windy about someone else’s.
Oh well.
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cathopologist
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A Catholic is a Christian.
True. However, its rare to see a Protestant ‘bishop’ wear traditional garments. Even rarer to see a (Protestant) bishop wear a beard.
Good sense of humour.
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Ethan_Enoch
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The name “Thamir Nasrani” seems to me to be quite similar to the name Samir Nassar, which is the name of the Maronite Archbishop of Damus, Syria. This story certainly cannot actually be about Archbishop Nassar though, because, one, he’s not an Iraqi, two, he’s older than 54, and three, he hasn’t converted to Islam.
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atassina
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Please note that Gottle offers actual, verifiable proof regarding his statement. He did not merely state something and then ask us to believe it. The Muslim correspondent still has offered no verifiable proof of anything. He (or she) continues to dodge and weave, sort of like smoke that never takes a form. You know something is there, but you are not sure what it is. Have a piece of cake. It is as real as the promoted story.
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famdigy
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I didn’t answer because it is out of scope for this discussion, if you want answers to these questions then open a new thread.I guess the OP doesn’t want to answer questions about his religion, and just came here to tell a big windy about someone else’s.
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famdigy
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but the reverse is not always true
In all probability, he was a member of the syriac orthodox church.
the way he dresses is very similar to the image below
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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