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Rodrigo_Bivar
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It means that you should have your wits about you when you post.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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Here’s a challenge for you - I will give you the worst surah in the Quran and you give me the worst from the New Testament.So I’m a liar now?I have a 4 hour commute each day I read the Qu’ran in a couple days, I already said there is plenty I disagree with did I not? But there’s nothing in the Qu’ran that is even close to the barbarism found within the Bible, that’s a fact sorry you’re too clouded to see something that is undeniable.
Frankly I doubt YOU have ever read the Bible or the Qu’ran in its entirety, I bet you stick to cherry picking a phrase or ten from each to bolster your weak argument.
Here’s a chalenge to you, give me the WORST Surah you have found in the Qu’ran, and I will give you ten MUCH worse from the Bible.
Okay?
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Montalban
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Even as a non-Catholic I’m aware that Infalibility is limited to particular statements. Maybe you should read up a bit more before you make such errors again.
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lukewarm
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So the Old Testament isn’t part of your Bible?
I love this argument, so foolish…
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lukewarm
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So the Popes teachings on Islam which are also in the Catechism aren’t an “infallible” statement on the Churches relationship to the Muslims? That’s very debateable, but since almost all areas of infallibility are in Catholicism it doesn’t surprise me. At the very least for a lay Catholic to say the Pope is wrong on Islam is the height of arrogance.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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It is you who are foolish. Please find out if Christians follow the OT before coming back. For example - find out if Christians follow the dietary laws in the OT. If not - that should tell you something.So the Old Testament isn’t part of your Bible?
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thedavidwilson
Guest
Better yet get a copy of Reliance of the Traveler. It is a handbook if sharia law written by/for muslims. Ask him about killing apostates. This handbooks states an apostate is one who even jokingly mocks the name of allah and that deserves death. This is just one of the gems in the highly evolved art of islamic jurisprudence.
Hey did you know the MSA is a front group for the Muslim Brotherhood, which are the for fathers of hamas and al qaeda. They even had a nifty alliance with hitler back in WWII.
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thedavidwilson
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Note the catechism says muslims who profess belief in the God of Abraham. It does not mean it is a valid religion or their concept of God is correct.
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lukewarm
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No again it’s you who is foolish, the God of the OT is the same as the God of the NT. The God of the OT who allowed japheth to sacrifice his daughter as a burnt offering, commanded the Israelites to slaughter whole societies is indivisible from the the God of the NT. You can’t just erase the OT in a debate like this, even though I’m sure you would love to, who wouldn’t? The God of the OT is a maniac who acts like an 8 year old bully.
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cyberjacques
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God allowing bad things and commanding bad things are two completely separate things. So here is my challenge to you. Pick as many examples as you want of God COMMANDING people to do bad things, and if you actually manage to find one, bring it here and we will try to clarify. I will find, and I encourage others to find, examples of the Koran’s Allah commanding people to do bad things.
Oh, and don’t even bother picking the examples of God telling the Israelites to kill certain cultures. Let me fill you in on those cultures just a bit. All the peoples for whom God prescribes extermination were people who did the most unspeakably horrible things in the process of worshiping false gods. Things like burning their children alive while they sodomized their other children in huge orgies. These cultures had been so disgusting for so long that there was no hope for them. They could not be changed. So, rather than allow them to continue their sins and risk it spreading to Israel, God told them to wipe out those cultures. The Israelites disobeyed, and didn’t finish the job. As a result, every once in a while such things would again crop up in Israel, like the guy you cited who sacrificed his own child, and God was forced to punish His own people until they straightened out.
Yes, many things described in the Bible are foul, to say the least. But if you can’t tell the difference between the events that are recorded as history and the ones that are given as instructions, then I’m not sure what to tell you. They’re separated as clearly as you could want, with God’s instructions first, then the actions taken by various people, then the consequences for those actions, and then God’s reminder. How are we supposed to know just how bad some of those actions were unless they are recorded in full?
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lukewarm
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Joshua 10:40-41
“So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote them from Kadesh-barnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon”
Joshua 6:21
"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ***, with the edge of the sword.
What did the old men, chidlren, ox and sheep to to make the “LORD of Israel” kill them and every living breathing thing?
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Pius_X
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A Pope can not go against an Ecumenical Council and the current Pope’s name is on the Catechism as Joseph Ratzinger. If you want to follow that reasoning, I assume that you believe truth can change?
In any case, the Pope’s understanding of Islam is that he “Esteems Muslims, who adore the only God,” according to Cardinal Bertone, who I am sure knows the Pope better than you do.
cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/16/pope.islam/index.html
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George_Waters
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“Oh, and don’t even bother picking the examples of God telling the Israelites to kill certain cultures. Let me fill you in on those cultures just a bit. All the peoples for whom God prescribes extermination were people who did the most unspeakably horrible things in the process of worshiping false gods. Things like burning their children alive while they sodomized their other children in huge orgies. These cultures had been so disgusting for so long that there was no hope for them. They could not be changed. So, rather than allow them to continue their sins and risk it spreading to Israel, God told them to wipe out those cultures. The Israelites disobeyed, and didn’t finish the job. As a result, every once in a while such things would again crop up in Israel, like the guy you cited who sacrificed his own child, and God was forced to punish His own people until they straightened out.”
Did you miss this part of Jacques post?
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lukewarm
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Yup I’ve heard this from the nazi’s too… I highly doubt that the children and even their oxen were murdering each other and engaging in orgies. Every despot who has ever murdered mass amounts of people used this same rationale. I don’t buy it, chances are most of these people murdered wholesale by the Israelites were just trying to get by day to day like 99% of the people on the Earth who don’t cause trouble, when one day Joshua rained down hell on them.
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Generic_Man
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This isn’t propaganda, it’s simply learing about Islam in a matter that’s entirely optional and unforced. Looks like ecumenism.
Just because somthing has to do with Islam doesn’t mean it’s intrinsically evil.
Just because somthing has to do with Islam doesn’t mean it’s intrinsically evil.
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Dempsey1919
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I pray that all Muslims will one day renounce Islam and believe in Jesus Christ and his Church. Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.
Dialogue is pointless unless it leads non-believers to the truth of Christ.
Islam is not the truth. I hope that Muslims will eventually be able to see Islam for what it is: simply a mixture of Arabic paganism, Judaism, and Gnostic Christianity.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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By your reasoning the catechism is infallible - which it is not.
The fact is that the present pope has a different understanding of Islam than his immediate predecessors.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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Several posters have told you what the Christians follow - and they do not follow the OT like you make out.
I have asked you to look at the dietary rules in the OT as an example. You haven’t.
Further - your tone is inappropriately aggressive. Please tone it down.
Lastly, check out tu quoque. A vengeful god does not make Allah into something decent and humane.
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lukewarm
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LMFAO talk about logical fallicies, look up “strawman” while you’re at it, I never made the argument you are stating. NOR did I ever say Christians follow the OT dietary laws, however that doesn’t change the fact that Christians worship the OT God as God, they are indivisible. So you worship the same God that ordered the massacre of tens of thousands. THAT is an argument you can’t finnegle your way out of by your strawmen that you set up here.
I won’t tone down anything buddy, I give back what I recieve, you’ve been nothing but disrespectful to me, so I gave it back, if you can’t handle it don’t dish it out…
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Pius_X
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Even if this was true, the Pope’s personal opinions do not matter more than teaching outlined in an Ecumenical Council and in the catechism currently in force. The Pope’s personal opinion is not infallible.
Also, this is not even the Pope’s personal opinion. I will repeat the part of my post which you ignored:
In any case, the Pope’s understanding of Islam is that he “Esteems Muslims, who adore the only God,” according to Cardinal Bertone, who I am sure knows the Pope better than you do.
cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe…lam/index.html
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