Muslims – Question about Janah

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Augustine3 said:
My point is there are just too many Muslim attacks to be isolated or extremist
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If I were to make a list of everything I do the entire day, hypothetically speaking, I would probably end up with let’s say three bad deeds and three good deeds. If I were to cross out the good deeds and only mention the bad deeds then I would seem like a horrible person. That’s what the media does to Islam. When I come and tell you the context of the Islamic Scriptures, you bring up some guy who says the opposite or does the opposite. I bring you site links, verdicts of several Imams, Sheikhs, Ulema who condemn these terrorist attacks and you turn back, listen to the terrorists and use the words of the terrorists as your sword against Islam.

The terrorists, regardless their large numbers, are still a minority. You know how many Muslims there are all over the world? 1.6 billion. Out of this 1.6 billion, how many are terrorists? Hundreds? Thousands at max. So are you willing to believe that millions of Muslims have their beliefs all wrong while only a measly few thousand of them are right? So am I to believe only the forty to maybe fifty people of the Westboro Baptist Church are the only ones who got Christianity right?
 
You know, at this point, I don’t think you’re even listening to me anymore. I tell you something, quote legit Ayat, Hadith, Fatwas, Tafsirs from accredited Sheikhs and Imams and then you ravage your sources finding one delinquent scholar to try to contradict the point in the most asinine way possible.

Why don’t you look at the thousands of Muslims living their lives in peace, going to college, attending jobs, doing normal things and yet still following Islam?

The way I see it, you go looking for trouble and you find it. Look in the dark long enough and try to convince yourself there’s someone standing there and you’ll fool your head into thinking there really is some silhouette or a figurine of someone or something there even when there isn’t. You guys are actively going forward looking for “Islamic terrorists” to fight back the argument. You haven’t pointed a single finger at the core principal beliefs of Islam, the five pillars themselves. Those pillars are what makes you a Muslim.
 
Reuben_J said:
Here is a good read al-mahdi.atspace.com/compare.html. Perhaps you can understand the mind of the terrorists better from this.
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Get a non-Muslim site to explain the doctrines of Islam, smart. How many Muslim Sheikhs have you heard of, listened to? How many of them are legitimate? Seems to be you are deliberately bringing up facts from anti-Islamic sources or sources that only fit your image of Islam. And, no offense intended, as a non-Muslim, your image of Islam evidently falls short of the truth.
 
dronald said:
I do think it’s strange that Allah didn’t realize that Muslims would take these passages out of context after he proclaims that the Qur’an is eternal, as in it predates mankind. I wish Allah could have clarified that every passage in the Qur’an is historical rather than eternal, it would have solved many of the worlds problems today.

You’re under the interpretation that Surah 9:29 is historical which is great, again I wish all Muslims held this view. Unfortunately nothing is given in Surah 9:29 that can cause one to assume that it is historical.

Allah states that the Qur’an is very easy to understand, and yet he gives us divine revelations that seem to imply that Christians and Jews should be fought until they pay the Jizyah but yet what Allah really meant was to only fight the people who live in Islamic states if they’re harming you, until you pay the Jizyah.

If one was given Surah 9 it would inspire hate, thereby making the Qur’an not easy to understand at all.

You’ve also managed to clarify to me that when Allah says that Christians and Jews are the, “worst of creatures” he only meant certain Christians and Jews during that time. Once again, taking away the eternal reliability of the Qur’an and trying to make it historical. Even if it was true in this case it’s still Allah calling Christians and Jews the worst of creatures for rejecting Islam during that time. I read the article and I don’t find it convincing that Allah can make a blanket statement like, “Christians are the worst of creatures” and mean, “Some Christians during the period that I gave this revelation are the worst of creatures.” Are you noticing a pattern in your claims of historicity?
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The Qur’an does tell us clearly in a Verse that all of it is to be taken literally. The Qur’an also tells us to acquire knowledge of its Revelation. Our Prophet has explicitly told us that he who finishes reading the Qur’an is less than a week has not read it all. He has also predicted that there will come a time that people will only read the Qur’an and not understand it and that shall create disruption. Well, that prediction came true did it not?

Also, how do you take Jizyah from someone in a non-Islamic state? It’s part of Islamic Law and has to be maintained in an Islamic country under Muslim authority. I can’t go to Switzerland and ask them to pay Jizyah to me because I am not the leader of that country nor is the country a Muslim one.

As for the “Jews and Christians are the worst of creatures” part, the Qur’an needs to be read as a whole. You don’t just read an ayah of it or a chapter of it and become a scholar. If anyone reads that Verse and is inspired to do act upon hatred then he is not a Muslim by definition, I’m sorry. It’s like a man officially an Indian with papers saying he is Indian and then he goes to England and claims he is English. He is not. By definition and by authority, he is not. He has no backing to his claim.

Many Verses in the Qur’an speaks highly of Christians and even Jews. There is a Verse is Surah Al-Baqarah that claims the believing Jews, Christians, Sabians and Muslims shall enter Paradise. And by believing it speaks of believing in One God and One God Only — the God of Abraham. The Verse you brought up speaks of disbelieving Jews and Christians (those who reject the truth regarding the Oneness of God and the Last Day). Surely, most Jews and Christians believe in One God and the inevitability of the Day of Judgment. But then there are “secular Jews” and “cultural Christians” today as there were during the time of Muhammad as well. The Verse speaks of them. And the Verse tells Muslims to fight them until they pay Jizyah. I cannot fight you to pay Jizyah in a non-Muslim country. That itself makes it quite clear.

Next comes the historical context of the Qur’an which many have started to ignore. If the Qur’an could have been understood just willy-nilly then it would have been sent down without a Prophet.
 
F_Ferdous said:
Get a non-Muslim site to explain the doctrines of Islam, smart. How many Muslim Sheikhs have you heard of, listened to? How many of them are legitimate? Seems to be you are deliberately bringing up facts from anti-Islamic sources or sources that only fit your image of Islam. And, no offense intended, as a non-Muslim, your image of Islam evidently falls short of the truth.
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Contrary to what you say, I don’t even try to explain Islamic doctrine. I was merely saying that Christianity and Islam do not have the same understanding on the same terms that we both use. For example, antiChrist and end times.

Have yo read the link? I was hoping you read it and point to me the shortcoming there.

I can understand those explanation you gave and the clarification about Islam, long read they may be though. But you are trying to brush off the alternative Islamic ideology and that goes against you. Then you start making generalization - about being brainwashed and illiterate. You are belittling the terrorists’ belief by saying that their number are small. The terrorists themselves are small in number but certainly not those who holds that belief.

I gave you a link hoping to hear some comment. Saying it from anti-Islamic site will not support your argument. You have to rebut them. I am saying Christian antiChrist is not ad-Dajjal but could possibly be al-Mahdi. That comparison speaks at length about the al-Mahdi. And it has nothing to do with the terrorists. That’s why you have to read it first before making your comment.
 
dronald said:
thereby making the Qur’an not easy to understand at all
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[islamweb.net/ema(name removed by moderator)age/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=140607](http://www.islamweb.net/ema(name removed by moderator)age/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=140607)

Please, read the Qur’an wholly as a book, not just isolated chapters or verses of it, and research them from legit and reputable Islamic sources, not controversial “ex-Muslims” or “extremists” nor Christians who apparently think they understand the Qur’an just by skimming through it once.
 
dronald said:
And I guess I’ll throw this one out there too: Why did Muhammad say “I have been ordered to fight the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah”?
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But as for these enemies of mine who didn’t want me to be their king—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence! (Luke 19:27)
 
F_Ferdous said:
Like the Western media is doing right now concerning Islam and terrorism?
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Im looking for an answer about the Crusades. What do you believe they were and who were the instigators and victors?

MJ
 
Reuben_J said:
Have yo read the link? I was hoping you read it and point to me the shortcoming there.
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I already have. There are very many holes in the comparison and I’ll refute them in due time, insha’Allah. First, there are other red herrings that have been thrown out that I must deal with. After all, this thread was never meant for discussing this topic in the first place. Someone had a question regarding Jannah for Women and I answered that. I did not bring up this topic but only explained my viewpoint on terrorists. But now it seems I have been challenged to support my views and I gladly accept that. Thank you. Peace.
 
So many red herrings. How many do you want me to chase after? First, this was a thread about the Islamic View of Paradise for Women. Now I’m answering questions regarding terrorism, the Crusades, Jizyah, the laws of Iran and Pakistan, etc. And it seems as I’m replying to one question, you’re concocting another. Insha’Allah, I’ll try to address as many of them as I can. Peace.
 
dronald said:
Or try criticizing Muhammad in Pakistan foxnews.com/world/2013/03/10/hundreds-christians-clash-with-pakistani-police-after-homes-burned-by-muslim/

Or try preaching Christianity in Iran dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2269086/Saeed-Abedini-U-S-pastor-sentenced-8-years-Iranian-prison-preaching-Christianity-homes.html

I could go on, but it’s worthless. Islam is not peaceful, it’s the Muslims in the West that are peaceful. I just never want them to have a majority… not here.
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If you have a problem with the laws of the countries you have mentioned then go pick a bone with the leaders of those countries, not Islam. Saudi Arabia also doesn’t permit women to drive but Aisha (R.A.) rode camels and horses so their argument is invalid.

And what do you mean by “here”?
 
F_Ferdous said:
I was thinking, my dad left me quite a large amount of money as inheritance and I have little use for it… perhaps, I should build a mosque in Vatican City; name it Masjid Al-Ferdousi maybe?
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There is a Mosque close by the Vatican. How many Muslims among the 1.6 billion would be willing to extend the same courtesy and allow Christians to build a church close by the kabaa? Religion of tolerance eh?
 
F_Ferdous said:
And I guess I’ll throw this one out there too: Why did Muhammad say “I have been ordered to fight the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah”?
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This is a weak tactic people use which basically means “they may be true but what about…”.

By throwing it back to Christianity only makes you look like you’ve admitted the problem.
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Augustine3 said:
This is a weak tactic people use which basically means “they may be true but what about…”.

By throwing it back to Christianity only makes you look like you’ve admitted the problem.
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Augustine, its not the first time Muslims use this verse. Don’t they know Jesus was saying a parable before entering Jerusalem? Desperation knows no bounds 😛

MJ
 
F_Ferdous said:
The Qur’an does tell us clearly in a Verse that all of it is to be taken literally. The Qur’an also tells us to acquire knowledge of its Revelation. Our Prophet has explicitly told us that he who finishes reading the Qur’an is less than a week has not read it all. He has also predicted that there will come a time that people will only read the Qur’an and not understand it and that shall create disruption. Well, that prediction came true did it not?

Also, how do you take Jizyah from someone in a non-Islamic state? It’s part of Islamic Law and has to be maintained in an Islamic country under Muslim authority. I can’t go to Switzerland and ask them to pay Jizyah to me because I am not the leader of that country nor is the country a Muslim one.

As for the “Jews and Christians are the worst of creatures” part, the Qur’an needs to be read as a whole. You don’t just read an ayah of it or a chapter of it and become a scholar. If anyone reads that Verse and is inspired to do act upon hatred then he is not a Muslim by definition, I’m sorry. It’s like a man officially an Indian with papers saying he is Indian and then he goes to England and claims he is English. He is not. By definition and by authority, he is not. He has no backing to his claim.

Many Verses in the Qur’an speaks highly of Christians and even Jews. There is a Verse is Surah Al-Baqarah that claims the believing Jews, Christians, Sabians and Muslims shall enter Paradise. And by believing it speaks of believing in One God and One God Only — the God of Abraham. The Verse you brought up speaks of disbelieving Jews and Christians (those who reject the truth regarding the Oneness of God and the Last Day). Surely, most Jews and Christians believe in One God and the inevitability of the Day of Judgment. But then there are “secular Jews” and “cultural Christians” today as there were during the time of Muhammad as well. The Verse speaks of them. And the Verse tells Muslims to fight them until they pay Jizyah. I cannot fight you to pay Jizyah in a non-Muslim country. That itself makes it quite clear.

Next comes the historical context of the Qur’an which many have started to ignore. If the Qur’an could have been understood just willy-nilly then it would have been sent down without a Prophet.
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Hi Ferdous,
Are you in any way related to the “Expounder”?

You are a great apologist for Islam, and one would be tempted to accept your words at face value, were it not for the fact that they seem to contradict the last 1500 years of Islamic history. To be more precise, the entire history of Islam, from its very inception contradicts your version of the theory of Islam.

Let’s look at a few examples.

Just this week Pope Francis canonized 800 Italian men who were beheaded by Islamic invaders for not willing to convert to Islam in the 15th century. Were these warriors of the Mohamed also illiterate terrorists who don’t understand their religion? Or were they spreading their religion by the sword? Hmmmm.

What about the heroic street mobs in Egypt that keep killing Christians and burning churches. The last one I heard of happened when a Christian man allegedly leaned over a balcony railing to look at a Muslim woman. They burned and vandalized churches and Christian businesses. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Your brilliant explanations of what Islam is are misdirected. You should be addressing them to your illiterate, violent islamists. You should be explaining to them how to properly understand the concept of Islam and peace.

Islam can never be a religion of peace if people get killed daily for not being Muslim or for being the wrong kind of muslim
 
Ontheway said:
Hi Ferdous,
Are you in any way related to the “Expounder”?

You are a great apologist for Islam, and one would be tempted to accept your words at face value, were it not for the fact that they seem to contradict the last 1500 years of Islamic history. To be more precise, the entire history of Islam, from its very inception contradicts your version of the theory of Islam.

Let’s look at a few examples.

Just this week Pope Francis canonized 800 Italian men who were beheaded by Islamic invaders for not willing to convert to Islam in the 15th century. Were these warriors of the Mohamed also illiterate terrorists who don’t understand their religion? Or were they spreading their religion by the sword? Hmmmm.

What about the heroic street mobs in Egypt that keep killing Christians and burning churches. The last one I heard of happened when a Christian man allegedly leaned over a balcony railing to look at a Muslim woman. They burned and vandalized churches and Christian businesses. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Your brilliant explanations of what Islam is are misdirected. You should be addressing them to your illiterate, violent islamists. You should be explaining to them how to properly understand the concept of Islam and peace.

Islam can never be a religion of peace if people get killed daily for not being Muslim or for being the wrong kind of muslim
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Very well put! 👍 👍
 
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