Muslims and the BVM

[Darrel]

ByzCath:

No, Muslims believe that Christ was the Messiah, born of a virgin and believe He was a prophet. They do not believe that He was God.

I see,

I’m curious how they debunk the fact that he proclaimed himself the son of God if they believe he is a prophet. A prophet by definition speaks only what is given by God. It would make more sense to me if they were saying Christ is a false prophet.

-D

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Darrel:

I see,

I’m curious how they debunk the fact that he proclaimed himself the son of God if they believe he is a prophet. A prophet by definition speaks only what is given by God. It would make more sense to me if they were saying Christ is a false prophet.

-D

This is how they do it.

Where did Christ proclaim himself the Son of God? In the Bible?

Well if you read my earlier posts in this thread, muslims believe that the Bible has been edited by Christians to say what they want it to say. That it is not the book that was handed down by Jesus.

They believe that each prophet was given a book to hand down. They beleive that the Jews changed the book given them by Moses and that the Christians changed the book given them by Jesus.

 

[Darrel]

ByzCath:

This is how they do it.

Where did Christ proclaim himself the Son of God? In the Bible?

Well if you read my earlier posts in this thread, muslims believe that the Bible has been edited by Christians to say what they want it to say. That it is not the book that was handed down by Jesus.

They believe that each prophet was given a book to hand down. They beleive that the Jews changed the book given them by Moses and that the Christians changed the book given them by Jesus.

Thank you,

This clears things up for me. When I read the text from the website that I posted above it has Jesus speaking to a crowd as an infant. And he said "I am indeed a servant of Allah!!!” This whole thing sounded like a bad Kung Fu movie to me.

If I imagine an infant speaking to a crowd in an adult voice I would imagine that people would either run away in terror or fall on there faces and worship. I saw nothing with regards to the crowds reaction to the miracle. If they are saying that Jesus had a book to hand down as the prophet do they have the actual ‘correct’ book of Christ’s teachings? I would be interested in reading this.

-D

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Darrel:

Thank you,

This clears things up for me. When I read the text from the website that I posted above it has Jesus speaking to a crowd as an infant. And he said "I am indeed a servant of Allah!!!” This whole thing sounded like a bad Kung Fu movie to me.

If I imagine an infant speaking to a crowd in an adult voice I would imagine that people would either run away in terror or fall on there faces and worship. I saw nothing with regards to the crowds reaction to the miracle. If they are saying that Jesus had a book to hand down as the prophet do they have the actual ‘correct’ book of Christ’s teachings? I would be interested in reading this.

-D

No they don’t. They say that no one has the original of Jesus’ or Moses’ book. This is one of the reasons that Muhammed had to come and one of the reasons for the Qur’an.

 

[Darrel]

ByzCath:

No they don’t. They say that no one has the original of Jesus’ or Moses’ book. This is one of the reasons that Muhammed had to come and one of the reasons for the Qur’an.

Ok,

I’m not saying this to bash Islam and I do not look down on people from other religions, all people are Gods children. It would seem that what they are saying in effect is that God sent three prophets into the world to deliver three books to humanity and that two out of three failed in there mission that God gave them (due to men). If that were true it would be quite sad indeed. I can’t see God failing like that in his objective. Thank you again for the information.

-D

 

[Digitonomy]

Darrel:

So Muslims believe that Christ is indeed the son of God

ByzCath cleared up most of this, but it’s worth noting that (as I understand it) Muslims do not see God as a father figure, and like I mentioned above, they find it perverse that Jesus could be the offspring of some union between God and Mary. Rather than God being a father, and all of us his children created in his image, Muslims view humanity as merely the creation and subjects of God. We owe him obedience and he will take care of us, just as a master cares for an obedient dog.

 

[Ahimsa]

ByzCath cleared up most of this, but it’s worth noting that (as I understand it) Muslims do not see God as a father figure, and like I mentioned above, they find it perverse that Jesus could be the offspring of some union between God and Mary. Rather than God being a father, and all of us his children created in his image, Muslims view humanity as merely the creation and subjects of God. We owe him obedience and he will take care of us, just as a master cares for an obedient dog.

That view might hold true for many of the more iconoclastic Muslims (like Wahhabis), but definitely not true for Muslims like Sufis and many Shi’is.

*Piousness and the path of love
are two different roads.
Love is the fire that burns both belief
and non-belief.
Those who practice Love have neither
religion nor caste.

• – Abu-Said Abil-Kheir

 

[Chrissay]

Bulldog’s link to the article by Bishop Sheen was well worth checking.
By the way, Bishop Sheen made the remark - and this was back in 1953 - that the Muslims were beginning to rise again at the present moment (I think he called them Mohammedanites though).

But more importantly, I had had no idea before now how very respectful and fond the Muslims are of Mary. I found it heartwarming, and I mean that.

 

[Sofia]

Darrel:

Here is an exerpt from the link explaining the Muslim version of how Jesus performed his first miracle as a prophet according to Muslim teaching. Is it just me or does the thought of Baby Jesus speaking like a man to the crowd seem a little ummmm …off?

At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: “O Mary! Truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!

“O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!”
But she pointed to the babe. They said: “How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?”
He said: “I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
“And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
“(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
“So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)”!] (Maryam 19:26-33)

​

And so the baby Jesus defended his mother from any accusations of adultery, and in a nutshell, explained who he was and why he was sent by God.

Here ends the story of Mary and miraculous birth of one of the greatest prophets of God, Jesus.

Hey, you never know! Why not?

-D

 

[Malgosia]

mrS4ntA:

I heard there’s a verse in there: it’s about Mohammad’s daughter but mentions Mary. It goes something like, “you are the fairest woman, Fatima, after Miriam (Mary).”

I read in one of the books on Islam, that it was Fatima herself that said something like this: “I am the greatest among women, except for Mary”. It is not found in Koran because Koran is supposed to be God’s instruction to Muhammad. It probably comes from a body of Islamic literature called the hadith. The hadith contains stories of Muhammad written by his followers, wives and servants.

 

[Malgosia]

ByzCath cleared up most of this, but it’s worth noting that (as I understand it) Muslims do not see God as a father figure, and like I mentioned above, they find it perverse that Jesus could be the offspring of some union between God and Mary. Rather than God being a father, and all of us his children created in his image, Muslims view humanity as merely the creation and subjects of God. We owe him obedience and he will take care of us, just as a master cares for an obedient dog.

In Islam it is a grave blasphemy to say that someone is a child of God. That’s why they can’t view Jesus as the Son of God because God is so much greater, and God has no equals.