"Muslims are not like christians who accept insult to their religion"

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paarsurrey said:
Hi
Hadith is not the primary source of Islam. It was collected two/three hundred years after the death of ProphetMessenger Muhammad, most of it is fabricated by the vested interest. Muhammad is not responsible for the fabrications. Hadith is only reliable if it is in line with Quran, otherwise not. Muhammad was peaceful and caring of the fellow human beings, these people have tarnished his image for their own selfish motives.
Thanks
Muhammad had a marvelous record of a peace loving person for 40+13+2=55 years, he joined in welfare activities if there was any in Mecca, he helped the needy and in distress, he stood for the human cause, he never harmed any person. His record in these 55 years is clean by any standards.
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And he was violent, murderous and treacherous after the age of 55 until he died.
 
The other issue in this thread that has barely been address is our relative passivity in the face of insult. I believe that at least the first crusade was quite justified and correct. Perhaps another crusade is sorely needed but I don’t know who would prosecute it. We have no Catholic empire.

In any event I do wonder if we shouldn’t stand up with a more open verbal witness than we often offer.

CDL
 
GregoryPalamas said:
The other issue in this thread that has barely been address is our relative passivity in the face of insult. I believe that at least the first crusade was quite justified and correct. Perhaps another crusade is sorely needed but I don’t know who would prosecute it. We have no Catholic empire.

In any event I do wonder if we shouldn’t stand up with a more open verbal witness than we often offer.

CDL
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Passive resistance should not be confused with no resistance.

We can “passively” resist by challenging the less-than-desirable aspects of Islam. Historically, they haven’t proved amenable to having an ecumenical council to bring their religion out of the 7th century and into the 21st.

It is somewhat understandable, because their religion teaches them that it is to remain unchanged. Yet, as Christians – and more specifically, Catholics – we can engage in peaceful discussions with Islam.

First and foremost, Catholics need to distinguish what the Church’s position is: Muslims believe in God, the same God we do. It is merely that their viewpoint that is skewed by Muhammad’s teachings in many respects.

Islam is rather straightforward in its doctrine and dogma, and Muslims find the complexities of Christian theology mystifying and difficult to comprehend. This, of course, leaves plenty of doctrinal and dogmatic ground open for exploitation by the more radical Muslims.

As any poster knows, a single errant statement or belief can take many, many paragraphs to refute. So it is always an uphill apologetic battle. This is so even with non-Muslims; it is the same battle we face with our Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ.

How do I approach it all? Simply this: An individual’s belief in God is sacrosanct: I will not presume to tell a person what they should FEEL about God. Where I can address them is in the realm of theology, philosophy, doctrine and dogma. This leaves intact their sense of their relationship with God, but can bring them to question HOW they implement and practice that relationship.
 
quantumDeus said:
Passive resistance should not be confused with no resistance.

We can “passively” resist by challenging the less-than-desirable aspects of Islam. Historically, they haven’t proved amenable to having an ecumenical council to bring their religion out of the 7th century and into the 21st.

It is somewhat understandable, because their religion teaches them that it is to remain unchanged. Yet, as Christians – and more specifically, Catholics – we can engage in peaceful discussions with Islam.

First and foremost, Catholics need to distinguish what the Church’s position is: Muslims believe in God, the same God we do. It is merely that their viewpoint that is skewed by Muhammad’s teachings in many respects.

Islam is rather straightforward in its doctrine and dogma, and Muslims find the complexities of Christian theology mystifying and difficult to comprehend. This, of course, leaves plenty of doctrinal and dogmatic ground open for exploitation by the more radical Muslims.

As any poster knows, a single errant statement or belief can take many, many paragraphs to refute. So it is always an uphill apologetic battle. This is so even with non-Muslims; it is the same battle we face with our Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ.

How do I approach it all? Simply this: An individual’s belief in God is sacrosanct: I will not presume to tell a person what they should FEEL about God. Where I can address them is in the realm of theology, philosophy, doctrine and dogma. This leaves intact their sense of their relationship with God, but can bring them to question HOW they implement and practice that relationship.
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I can see how this is useful when Muslims are the dominant culture. Conversions happen even in Muslim dominated countries but they are very difficult and dangerous both for the evangelist and for the new convert.

CDL
 
GregoryPalamas said:
I can see how this is useful when Muslims are the dominant culture. Conversions happen even in Muslim dominated countries but they are very difficult and dangerous both for the evangelist and for the new convert.

CDL
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In Muslim-dominated countries, being a Christian of any denomination is hazardous, to be sure. Our Jewish brethern like to point out their persecution by others (particularly in this time by Arab Muslims), but it is so often overlooked that the most persecuted bunch in the Middle East are Christians.
 
Islam teaches that Jesus is not God.

This offends me.

Because my self-esteem is low, I desire revenge to feel better about myself.

May I bomb a mosque or burn some Muslim homes?

Please advise. :tiphat:

(Note to moderators: this is obviously intended as sarcasm to illustrate a point about mindless Muslim violence. I have no plans or desire to bomb or burn anything. I am not offended that ignorant people do not know the truth about Jesus, and my self-esteem is just fine. Thanks for asking.)
 
I don’t accept insults. But I’m not the christian I want to be. Tim
 
Randy_Carson said:
Islam teaches that Jesus is not God.

This offends me.

Because my self-esteem is low, I desire revenge to feel better about myself.

May I bomb a mosque or burn some Muslim homes?

Please advise. :tiphat:

(Note to moderators: this is obviously intended as sarcasm to illustrate a point about mindless Muslim violence. I have no plans or desire to bomb or burn anything. I am not offended that ignorant people do not know the truth about Jesus, and my self-esteem is just fine. Thanks for asking.)
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Dear Randy (if I might be so bold):

I recommend to you that you first read up on Just War. If you can convince me that you are basing this desire in that doctrinal principle of ours, then by all means, bomb the Hades out of them.

I would caution you, however, that the proper Catholic and Christian thing to do is to pray for their souls before, during and after.

Yours in Christ,
Pope Benny

(Yes, this is entirely tongue in cheek and satirical and in no way reflects the real view of Pope Benedict. However, everyone is encouraged to read the Church’s view on Just War.)
 
I can see how this is useful when Muslims are the dominant culture. Conversions happen even in Muslim dominated countries but they are very difficult and dangerous both for the evangelist and for the new convert.

Correction: “…when Muslims are NOT the dominant culture.” Sorry about the confusion.

CDL
 
quantumDeus said:
Dear Randy (if I might be so bold):

I recommend to you that you first read up on Just War. If you can convince me that you are basing this desire in that doctrinal principle of ours, then by all means, bomb the Hades out of them.

I would caution you, however, that the proper Catholic and Christian thing to do is to pray for their souls before, during and after.

Yours in Christ,
Pope Benny

(Yes, this is entirely tongue in cheek and satirical and in no way reflects the real view of Pope Benedict. However, everyone is encouraged to read the Church’s view on Just War.)
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Can we support our secular government when they fight our battles for us?

CDL
 
Most sweet Jesus, Redeemer of the human race, look down on us humbly prostate before Thine Altar (outside a Church or oratory say: in Thy presence) Thine we are, and Thine we wish to be; but to be more surely united to Thee, behold, each one of us this day freely dedicates himself to Thy Most Sacred Heart. Many, indeed have never known Thee; many too have rejected Thee. Have mercy on them all, most merciful Jesus, and draw them to Thy Most Sacred Heart. Be Thou King, O Lord, not only of the faithful who have never forsaken Thee, but also of the prodigal sons who have abandoned Thee; grant that they may quickly return to their Father’s house, lest they perish of wretchedness and hunger. Be Thou King of those held in error by heresy or excluded by discord; call them back to the harbor of truth and unity of faith, so that soon there may be but one fold and one Shepherd. Be Thou King of all those who even now sit in the shadow of idolatry or Islam, and do not refuse to bring them into the light of Thy Kingdom. Look, finally with eyes of pity upon the children of that race, which was for so long Thy chosen people; and let Thy Blood, which was once invoked upon them in vengence, now decend upon them also in cleansing flood of redemption and eternal life. Grant O Lord, to Thy Church assurance of freedom and preservation of harm; unto all nations give an ordered tranquility; bring it to pass that from pole to pole the earth may resound with one cry: Praise to the divine Heart that wrought our salvatio; to It be honor and glory through the ages of ages. Amen
I just thought this prayer would be good on this thread.🙂

I hope it does not offend our Muslim or Jewish friends, or the heretics, ect.

Have a good day everyone.
 
GregoryPalamas said:
Can we support our secular government when they fight our battles for us?

CDL
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As long as that secular entity is subscribing to the precepts of Just War, then yes, we can offer our support and prayers in good conscience.

It should be noted that we should also be working and praying to end the war. Herein lies an ethical Occam’s Razor: in working to re-establish peace, we should also not be undermining those undertaking a just war.
 
estesbob said:
Who determnes the justness of a war?
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That’s the real problem here. In today’s mindset no war is just, even a defensive war. The relationship between the Church and secualar state is more often defined as impotency than anything else.

CDL
 
Several years ago a museum, in NY I think, displayed a statue of the Virgin Mary covered in elephant dung. Last Christmas season an artist had a display of a naked crucified Jesus made out of chocolate. I’m sorry, I don’t have links for these - I’m sure any one interested enough could come up with the documentation for them…

In my opinion these insults were FAR worse than anything offered to the memory of Mohammed (MGHMOHS). If anything, they at least equaled the humiliation Jesus suffered at his crucifixion. I can’t even begin to imagine the sorrow that this rejection of his love must bring to Him.

If Christians followed the same philosophy as much of Islam seems to, those people would be dead today. The reason they’re still alive is not because we simply accept humiliation as our due, but because we judge this behaviour as one of EXTREME ignorance, even when it’s apparently deliberate.

The proper response, of course, besides peaceful and civil protest to try to educate them, is to pray for God’s mercy for them.

There’s no punishment in this life that could possibly equal the separation from God that they would bring upon themselves in the next.
 
Just so you know- Muslims were outraged about the incident in the NYC museum regarding Mary as well. Incensed would be more accurate.
Mjae said:
Several years ago a museum, in NY I think, displayed a statue of the Virgin Mary covered in elephant dung. Last Christmas season an artist had a display of a naked crucified Jesus made out of chocolate. I’m sorry, I don’t have links for these - I’m sure any one interested enough could come up with the documentation for them…

In my opinion these insults were FAR worse than anything offered to the memory of Mohammed (MGHMOHS). If anything, they at least equaled the humiliation Jesus suffered at his crucifixion. I can’t even begin to imagine the sorrow that this rejection of his love must bring to Him.

If Christians followed the same philosophy as much of Islam seems to, those people would be dead today. The reason they’re still alive is not because we simply accept humiliation as our due, but because we judge this behaviour as one of EXTREME ignorance, even when it’s apparently deliberate.

The proper response, of course, besides peaceful and civil protest to try to educate them, is to pray for God’s mercy for them.

There’s no punishment in this life that could possibly equal the separation from God that they would bring upon themselves in the next.
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BelFarfalla said:
So tell me, ahmadhassan, should we then attack a mosque and it’s Imam because you are here insulting our religion, Jesus and God?
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This rarely ever even happens in America. Muslims live very comfortable lives in the USA… They have no right to attack christian churches in the middle east… Recently a priest and 2-3 deacons were killed… it angered me greatly… Can you imagine if something like this happened in America against an Imam??
 
GregoryPalamas said:
That’s the real problem here. In today’s mindset no war is just, even a defensive war. The relationship between the Church and secualar state is more often defined as impotency than anything else.

CDL
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This, more than anything, speaks against moral relativism and political correctness.
 
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