Muslims belief+compared to catholism??

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Where would be the justice in all of us being born sinners?
justice means to give what is due

as i have said God give adam his friendship but adam has to prove his love of God… how?

God created adam with free will .the purpose of free will is to demonstrate that adam freely choose to love God.

However adam freely rejected Gods friendship…

if adam rejected Gods frienship then mankind has rejected God friendship since adam was the mankind at that time… or mankind was potentially present in him…

if adam rejected Gods friendship who are we not to be affected we are not greater that adam…

Therefore what is due to adam is due to us, adam was the humaniy at that time his decision affects us… we were in him potentially when he made the mistake.

what was due to adams sin was the revocation of friendship.
 
with respect to the koran…

koran has no originality… it borrows stories from the bible… and the stories are mostly not accuurate.

koran disttorts history… historians both jews and pagan disinterested people write about the crusifixion of jesus… koran denies it…

how can the koran be sooo sure that jesus did not die on the cross when it was written 600 years after the crusifixion?compare to the eyewitness acount of john the beloved diciple present at the foot of the cross at the time of crusifixion…He wrote the gospel of john and tell us his witness of the crusifxion.

koran was at one time infected with satanic verses…muhammad failed to recognized that it was the devil who dictated him the verses…

scientific writing is koran is not news even before islam ancient people are knowlegeable of science…
 
my question to muslim?

man is finite whatever he does has a finite value…how does man merit the forgiveness of God of his sin when what he does is alwayes short of what is due to the infinite God?

How can your worship be due to the infinite God when you are finite and your worship as a man is always finite… as such it cannot be due to the infinite God?

can your most sincire finite repentance be due to the infinite God?
 
way too many questions to answer but i read them all…i still see many flaws in christianity and none at all in islam, which is why we are the fastest growing religion in the world…even my fiancee who is catholic agrees to fallacies in the catholic/christian religion…a lot of things just dont add up, not to mention the thousands of sects christianity contains which just adds to the confusion…whos to say lutherans or protestants or methodists etc are wrong and catholics are right? christianity has been changed too many times by man and has strayed from the true word of God…and in response to the statement about us denying the crucifiction…it makes sense…God wouldnt let such a holy being die in such a brutal way by man…just because some people may have saw someone get crucified doesnt mean it happened…we beleive Jesus(pbuh) was replaced by a replicant that looked exactly like him. And you may see this as farfetched because you have supposed eye witness accounts, but dont you think its possible? God is great, he created the world , made many miracles happen…why am i along with so many other Muslims so sure he was never crucified? same reason why were are 100% sure Moses(pbuh) parted the sea and how Mary had a virgin birth…its a miracle written in the Holy Koran brought down to Muhammed(pbuh) from God.if you dont want to read the Koran, read the Gospels of Barnabus…Its actually pretty close to the true form of christianity which was brought down to Jesus(pbuh) and not writtien by 4-5 other disciples who claim to know everything Jesus(pbuh) said.
 
way too many questions to answer but i read them all…i still see many flaws in christianity and none at all in islam, which is why we are the fastest growing religion in the world…even my fiancee who is catholic agrees to fallacies in the catholic/christian religion…a lot of things just dont add up, not to mention the thousands of sects christianity contains which just adds to the confusion…whos to say lutherans or protestants or methodists etc are wrong and catholics are right? christianity has been changed too many times by man and has strayed from the true word of God…and in response to the statement about us denying the crucifiction…it makes sense…God wouldnt let such a holy being die in such a brutal way by man…just because some people may have saw someone get crucified doesnt mean it happened…we beleive Jesus(pbuh) was replaced by a replicant that looked exactly like him. And you may see this as farfetched because you have supposed eye witness accounts, but dont you think its possible? God is great, he created the world , made many miracles happen…why am i along with so many other Muslims so sure he was never crucified? same reason why were are 100% sure Moses(pbuh) parted the sea and how Mary had a virgin birth…its a miracle written in the Holy Koran brought down to Muhammed(pbuh) from God.if you dont want to read the Koran, read the Gospels of Barnabus…Its actually pretty close to the true form of christianity which was brought down to Jesus(pbuh) and not writtien by 4-5 other disciples who claim to know everything Jesus(pbuh) said.
But anyways, like i said , this isnt gonna go no where…im gonna stay muslim and im sure you all will stay catholic…but heck its nice discussing such stuff…and instead of focusing on the differences between the religions, why dont you focus on the similarities …our religions believe in God, the virgin Mary, and we revere Jeses(pbuh) greatly and a lot of other holy things. Like i said, all muslims respect the people of the book a lot…ive been to a couple of catholic churches…got to know people. anyways have fun poking at this msg.
 
the old testament says thru prophet isaiah chapter 53:10… that the sacrificial death of jesus was Gods will…

Koran… tells us the contrary that jesus did not die on the cross…

Therefore koran tell us contrary of the will of God…

anyway how did koran knows that Jesus was substituted by another man when it was written 600 years after crisifixion? was the writer of koran witness the crusifixion? if not then it is hearsay…

Who witnessed the crusifixion? it was John the beloved diciple who wrote the gospel. Therefore the crusifixion is his personal knowledge written by him.

therefore Koran based on heasay has less credibility compared to johns goepel who witnessed the event…

yes there were many who were crusified but what sign sets jesus apart from all of them? simple the virgin birth was the sign foretold by the same phrophet isaiah who foretold the passion and death of jesus in chapter 53…

as to koran… many were borrowed inaccurately from the old testament. i doubt if there is koran if there were no bible.

anyway how does muslim theology answer of how can a man give a due worship to God when man is finite and God is infinite… man perfect worship is still finite as such it cannot be due to the infinite Glory of God?
 
I am tired of Islam. All they do is ask for us to be more open to them, but in return they do nothing. It is a threat and must be dealt with by evangilization and forceful diplomacy. Trust but verify.
 
i was once told by a very devout Muslim that Islam is a religion of tolrance and peace. That it accepts people of all races and creeds.

But, I have yet to see proof of this tolerance .

For example, a Muslim imam can come to almost any Christian land and establish a mosque and start teaching his faith to all that would listen. How come Christians are forbidden to go to Muslim lands and do the same?

How come Islam teaches that if you fail to convert an infidel on the 3rd try , you should kill him or her.

This hardly sounds like a religion of tolerance.
No disrespect is meant , but any information regarding these
two statements .
 
godsent said:
Muslims belief+compared to catholism??

I have been told by a few people i.e muslims,that jesus was gods first attempt for christianity and when the romans killed jesus,god thought,"right so they turned down christianity,lets start a new one,and sent for mohammad to preach the word of allah!
If this is true,why do people still belive in christianity if islam was the second try after christinaity?

Im sooo confused on this subject??
Any help much appreciated!!
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Excellent question. To be more succinct, why would I believe in Christianity as opposed to Islam?
  1. Well, because of the evidence in favor of Christianity. For instance, there are four Gospels written by four eyewitnesses of Jesus life and deeds and taught and wrote down His revelation.
Islam only has the unverified claims of Mohammed to having seen an angel who allegedly revealed the message of Allah. To make matters worse, his original versions of the Quran were destroyed by Muslims.

So, there is no evidence for the truth of Islam. Much evidence for the truth of the Gospels.
  1. There are many confirmed errors in the Quran. For instance, the Quran teaches that the world is flat.
  2. But the most important reason for me, is the teaching of love which comes from the Bible and Christianity in general. It is incomparable in beauty and wisdom in this world. Islam has nothing to compare.
Sincerely,

De Maria
 
seeker123 said:
way too many questions to answer but i read them all…i still see many flaws in christianity and none at all in islam, which is why we are the fastest growing religion in the world…even my fiancee who is catholic agrees to fallacies in the catholic/christian religion…a lot of things just dont add up, not to mention the thousands of sects christianity contains which just adds to the confusion…whos to say lutherans or protestants or methodists etc are wrong and catholics are right? christianity has been changed too many times by man and has strayed from the true word of God…and in response to the statement about us denying the crucifiction…it makes sense…God wouldnt let such a holy being die in such a brutal way by man…just because some people may have saw someone get crucified doesnt mean it happened…we beleive Jesus(pbuh) was replaced by a replicant that looked exactly like him. And you may see this as farfetched because you have supposed eye witness accounts, but dont you think its possible? God is great, he created the world , made many miracles happen…why am i along with so many other Muslims so sure he was never crucified? same reason why were are 100% sure Moses(pbuh) parted the sea and how Mary had a virgin birth…its a miracle written in the Holy Koran brought down to Muhammed(pbuh) from God.if you dont want to read the Koran, read the Gospels of Barnabus…Its actually pretty close to the true form of christianity which was brought down to Jesus(pbuh) and not writtien by 4-5 other disciples who claim to know everything Jesus(pbuh) said.
But anyways, like i said , this isnt gonna go no where…im gonna stay muslim and im sure you all will stay catholic…but heck its nice discussing such stuff…and instead of focusing on the differences between the religions, why dont you focus on the similarities …our religions believe in God, the virgin Mary, and we revere Jeses(pbuh) greatly and a lot of other holy things. Like i said, all muslims respect the people of the book a lot…ive been to a couple of catholic churches…got to know people. anyways have fun poking at this msg.
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Dear Seeker,

If the Quran is an infallible and flawless word of God, then could you tell us why Islam has sunni and shiah. Why do you have Ahmadiah? Are you a sunni? or a shiah? I don’t believe you belong to both.
 
Dear Seeker,

You mentioned that we should read the Gospel of Barnabas. I did, and I found it wrong. One simple thing is the gospel is geographically wrong. How can a gospel be wrong in simple and visible thing? That cannot be inspired by God. It is clear that the gospel of barnabas was written by a person NOT FAMILIAR with the geography of the Holy Land. If such person was not familiar with the Holy Land, he/she definitely did not come from that region. If he/she did not come from that region, from whom he/she got the teaching of Christianity as opposed with the 4 gospel writers. Let me give you an example (borrowed from Mr. Keating). If there was an accident happen, do you believe the reports from the eyewitness OR from another source came from different region hundreds of years later? Unfortunately, you suggested us that Quran made a quotation from a wrong source.

The second question, do you believe in the Gospel of Barnabas? If you do, then you are telling us the Islam has 2 holy books. If you don’t, why do you suggest us to read the Gospel of Barnabas? It is more logical if you ask us to read the Quran instead. Gee, somebody has asked this same question in other thread.

By the way, I suggest you to convert your fiancee to Islam, and I hope she will abide (It will be sad for me if you treat her like an infidel). Otherwise, it will be difficult for her to still believe in Catholicism while you don’t. It will be tough for her to answer your self-claim of 50.000’s contradictions in the bible while you cannot name all of them in details, and provide any proof at all. How can she convince you if you do not name each of the 50.000+ contradictions and each of the proof, so she can answer you. After she converts, I hope you will treat her well because I believe that your marriage is because you really love her, not just to convert her. Congratulation on your marriage.
 
swariffin,

First I would like to say you sound as though you can make intelligent decisions based on your own beliefs through factual findings.

I can say that in reading the Koran, The history and factual data based on Mohammed and his immediate inheritors I am confused with your decision making process.

The year approx. 600 the birth place of civilization stopped growing in art, science. and love.

You are a religion that has still a history today that beats out the death and destruction caused by Midevil times for the sake of your Prophet.

You may say that that is a few but you know that not to be true as you can read about Dafur just to mention on of these countries mentioned. These are not individuals with a few screws loose.

Africa, the middle east, Asia, and Europe.

You kill eachother (Sects) for the sake of Allah today.

Stop spimmimg and sit dpwn and evaluate the facts.

Make an inteeligent decision based on God not on your brother,sister,father,mother, or other outside sources.
 
seeker123 said:
they say Mohammed (pbuh) forcibly converted others to Islam with his sword.
I guess mohammed (pbuh) was super strong and invincible, to go around the entire middle east and just converting people forcibly left and right all by himself!
How can a single man forcibly convert thousands and thousands of people to Islam within 23 years?
No, he did not convert anybody forcibly, people reverted to Islam because of his preaching and because of the nature of Islam. It is the perfect and true religion.

And what about today? even today thousands of christians worldwide are reverting to Islam? Is Mohammed (pbuh) coming up to them with his “sword” and forcibly converting them?
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Hi

I appreciate and agree with your above points in your post.

Thanks
 
CreosMary said:
There is no doubt that a good and Faithful muslim is as the same in God’s eyes as a good and Faithful Catholic
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Hi

I like your approach as stated above.
as the Church teaches there is no more revelations after the dealth of the last Apostle.
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Your above statement is however not according to JesusYeshuaIssa.That might be a guess on part of some people, however, nobody could stop GodAllahYHWH from speaking to anyone. GodAllahYHWH need no permission or license from anybody; He is God, All-Powerful. If He spoke in the past, he could speak now; otherwise one could think that it is only a myth that He ever talked. One could think He might have died meanwhile.

I like your peaceful style.

Thanks
 
c659smith said:
swariffin,

First I would like to say you sound as though you can make intelligent decisions based on your own beliefs through factual findings.

I can say that in reading the Koran, The history and factual data based on Mohammed and his immediate inheritors I am confused with your decision making process.

The year approx. 600 the birth place of civilization stopped growing in art, science. and love.

You are a religion that has still a history today that beats out the death and destruction caused by Midevil times for the sake of your Prophet.

You may say that that is a few but you know that not to be true as you can read about Dafur just to mention on of these countries mentioned. These are not individuals with a few screws loose.

Africa, the middle east, Asia, and Europe.

You kill eachother (Sects) for the sake of Allah today.

Stop spimmimg and sit dpwn and evaluate the facts.

Make an inteeligent decision based on God not on your brother,sister,father,mother, or other outside sources.
Click to expand...
Dear brother Smith,

Perhaps you mistaken me as a muslim. In fact I am not. I am a Catholic. I was baptised in 1974 as a grade 4 elemtary kid. I was a cradle Catholic eversince. My study further was in 1983 when a Polish seminarian runaway (under the threat of comunism in his country) opened a bible study. He was a good one, and until now work in our Bible Institution in our country. I was a student from a Fransiscan Priest since 3.5 years ago. I do believe in Jesus, because He is the answer of my problem. Back when I was jobless with a family to feed (it was difficult to find a job after Indonesia was hit by financial crisis since 1998), Jesus kept my hope alive via the novena of the sacred heart of Jesus, after so many applications turned down. In Catholicism, I am not just learning. I have had the experience of God’s loving arm through Jesus, not because a priest told me so.

I happen to have a relative who is a muslim. He is the brother of my grandma. He is a Hajj and running a local mosque. When i was a kid, I used to sit in his bossom and he told me children stories. I love him and I know that he loves me too. I have many discussions and even arguments about Islam as compared to Catholicism. You don’t have to tell me about our differences, we have a lot. I don’t care about Muhammad and his Quran. I simply don’t believe in the religion. But, I can never forget the loving eyes from my grandma’s brother. I don’t care about their so-called the fastest growing religion. What good a fastest growing the one so-called religion, if it is spread out by means of birth rates or conquest? No wonder in that. I don’t believe that many Christians ever convert to Islam, especially in the western countries. In some minor occasions, it may be. Beyond that, it is exageration. At least, the muslims are also human beings, created to have the image of God. Some of them really shows that, but some others decided to push aside that image of God from themselves.

Perhaps our circumstances around us is different. You are from a Christian majority and relatively lawful country. In the US, you can build churches and even mosque quite easily. In mine, we can’t build churches easily. So, I do admire your spirit of evangelization. But in my case, it has to be done in a different approach.
 
In the interest of charity, we should not focus on what individuals believe but how each religion views God and our relationship with him.

Islam: slave to master
Catholicism: Child to Father (For the Father)

Islam: We are to worship Allah for he is All-Powerful and demands it
Catholicism: We are to worship God because he loves us and wants a relationship with us.

Islam: Allah is Master.
Catholicism: God is Father, God is Son, God is Holy Spirit (Defendor, Comfortor, Guide to all Truth)

Islam: Equality to all Muslims.
Catholicism: Love your neighbor as yourself

Islam: Forgive but never forgive those who harm you (per the Koran)
Catholicism: Pray for your enemies, forgive those who harm you

Remember that Jesus tells us that he no longer calls us slaves, but friends. Paul tells us that we are no longer slaves to the law or slaves to sin, but Children of God and inheritors of God’s Promise.

Catholicism, because of its more advanced view of the nature of the God/Man relationship is a more evolved faith system. I am not a slave to God but a Child of god who serves him not out of fear but out of love for him.
 
godsent said:
I have been told by a few people i.e muslims,that jesus was gods first attempt for christianity and when the romans killed jesus,god thought,"right so they turned down christianity,lets start a new one,and sent for mohammad to preach the word of allah!!
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of all the absurd replies i read from some Muslims, this reply is the peak of absurdity because it contradicts the Quran in every way.

Muslims do not believe Jesus was crucified in the first place and Muhammad said nothing of what you wrote or what they told you…the belief is that Allah sent Muhammad because humans corrupted previous messages so Allah decided to interfere this time and sent Muhammad whose word cannot be corrupt, and on his way, “correcting” what Jews and Christians corrupted…or more correctly, “trying” to correct…
 
I saw a video years ago, of an Islamic preacher who illustrated the condemning Islamic view of those who believe God has a Son.
They believe that such an idea is an insult to God (Allah). He even went so far as to say that it is an insulting “animalistic” sexual thing to suggest that God had a Son.
And, when Christians find this out, it is so unbelievable.
Because, you know, that we believe that it was a miracle, that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and not of an “animalistic” sexual nature.
So, how many Muslims still believe that Christians believe that?
This is going to take a lot of patience and Bible doctrine to lay it all out plainly before Muslims.
I hope that this makes an impression, to say the least.

And, it should be noted that the Mormons believe (since 1827) that God the Father is a man, who came down to have sex with Mary for the conception of Jesus.
The Mormon Church is a cult, indeed.
Maybe, they are partly to blame.
 
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