Muslims: Did Jesus Die on the Cross?

[hasantas]

LIST=1]
*]If Jesus is merely a prophet then why does John 5:23 state that, “… everyone will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son is certainly not honoring the Father who sent him” (John 5:23 ESV)?

1. Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."Al-Imran:31

So prophets were sent in the name of God. We must respect them in that way.

*]If Jesus is merely a prophet then why in Revelation 5:8-14 does it say that in heaven every creature including angels and elders will worship Jesus saying He is worthy of praise, glory, honour and power forever and ever?

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Revelation 5:12-13

Every great prophet is worthy of those. But were is the term of “will worship Jesus”?

1. Behold! We said to the angels, “Prostrate to Adam”: they prostrated except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord… Al-Kahf:50

So was Adam a God? There are a right interpretation of such verses.

*]If Jesus is a mere prophet who’s life began at conception like the rest of mankind then why does the NT teach that Jesus pre-existed with the Father in unique Glory? Philippians 2:6-11 states:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation,

and took upon him the form of a servant,

and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:6-11 KJV)

Notice underlined parts. Jesus did not say anything to be a God. We cannot conclude that from verses although of strained interpretations and intervention to verses.

*]If Jesus is a mere prophet why did He claim to have the power to raise Himself from the dead once killed? Is this something a prophet has ever claimed to be able to do?

*]If Jesus is a mere prophet only preaching his prophet-hood, why did His statements denote His equality with God and Him being God? In John 10:33 and 5:18 we read:

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; John 10:35

So unto whom the word of God came are called Gods. And Jesus was one of those gods. Then what that mean god? I think that term mean holy messenger from God otherwise all prophets must be a God!

“For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God” (John 5:18 NIV).

That words is not directly from Jesus. Jesus claimed to be a prophet and some people do not accept that. Jesus make himself equal/like to Torah. Jews did not accpet that Jesus was from God.

“We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33 NIV).

Jesus claimed to be a messenger from God and Jews/people reject that because they had Torah.

Clearly the people of Jesus’ day as well as Apostle John’s own commentary recognized that His language here was so explicit in affirming his Deity that they knew without question that he was claiming to be God. Is there any other case in the Bible or Qur’an where a prophet’s teaching caused the people listening to believe they were claiming to be God?

/

Included Jesus non of prophet asserted such thing. About Jesus all are embroidered of peoples because they had loved Jesus so much and they went rampancyand transgression.

 

[Trekker47]

God can understant and trial humanbeing without being human/material. If God cannot do that then how will God judge humanbeing with all circumstances, senses, deeds etc?

I’m not a theologian, so I can’t say whether it would impede God’s ability to judge us if He hadn’t suffered, and been tempted like us, perhaps someone else can shed some light on the matter, but I’m going to consider why it’s important for God to go through human trials from a different perspective now.
I suppose you’d agree that anything we do comes inherently from God, even our existence. For instance, when we love, we can do that because God loves, right? God puts a bit of his own love into us, and that makes us able to love each other and Him, hence people who are utterly cut off from God seem unable to love. It’s like how a child learns to write by having someone who already knows how to write hold their hand and help them form the letters on the page.
Well that’s all well and good for the things God normally does, as God, but what about the things He doesn’t do, the trials that unique to humans? You’ve already stated that the important thing for us to get back to God after we’ve sinned is to repent and humble ourselves before Him, but consider this: the better a person is, the easier it is for them to repent and be humble, and the worse a person is, the harder it gets. Hence, it would take a perfect person to repent perfectly, and none of us are perfect; so if God can’t “hold our hand” to teach us how to repent, we’re pretty much doomed already. Unless God DOES take human form, and humbles Himself to the will of the Father, and takes on the sins of the world and repents of them (hence in the Bible - “God made to be sin he who knew no sin”). Then, because God has repented, we can repent also, and become holier.
It’s interesting how in the Bible we get specific references to Jesus doing all the things God doesn’t ordinarily do, as if to highlight the fact that He was living a human life - He’s tempted pretty dramatically in the desert by the devil, and He suffers from anxiety in the garden of gethsemane. If nothing else, Jesus became man to be our perfect role model.

God is closer than human to human: (16. It was We Who created man, and We know what suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein. Quran, Qaf:56)

Well, no argument with that.

A God and a man structure cannot unite in one body! I do not know why you cannot see that. A God never forgot, sleep or fit into a body. That is so obvious. That is not use to say if God want then he can do. A body is consist of materials(atoms) and atoms were created by God. So God is not what he created. God is beyond of everything, time and matter.

I still don’t see the problem here, these are only assertions. Think of God as the author of a book for a moment. An author is outside of the time of that book too; he can write “an hour passed”, and in that book an hour did pass, but for the author it didn’t. Now imagine the author writes himself into the book as a character, that’s not hard to conceive, plenty of authors do. So why can’t God ‘write’ Himself into creation if He wants? His creation isn’t even like a book, it’s actually real, surely the supreme author can do what even a human author can do.
Also I don’t understand why God can’t ‘fit’ in a body; is a human soul the same size as our body? That would mean that when you lose a limb, your soul shrinks, or that a shorter person has a smaller soul. When you say that God can’t take on human form, you’re not making Him greater, you’re limiting Him. Have you ever noticed that the greater something is, the lower it can go? That is, a good man can talk to a child, and understand the child’s word, but a bad man often can’t. Then it makes sense that God, who is greatest of all, can become human.

% 100 divinity is not % 100 humanity and those cannot unite. God create souls but God is not a soul. There are many problems but in conclusion a man God cannot be a mediator or prophet. Either Jesus was a God or a human but not both. God is not human then Jesus was a man.

Again, nothing to back this up; I’ve already said why it makes more sense for our mediator to be both God and man, and you haven’t refuted that, so I’m not going to spend time on it again.

 

[Trekker47]

Commiting sins is rebellion against God but nobody/nothing can offence or harm God! So with sins we destroy and violate our souls.

God’s Mercy and Grace and love is so high that God can forgive all sins but with provided that human must repent. If God would do that work isntead of human then there would be no mean. The faults and sins are belong to humans so human must improve that.

Adam or anybody else cannot harm God in anyway. We cannot offend God with our sins but we offend ourselves/souls and demolish morality. So we must repair that with faith, worship, repentance etc. The fault is belong to us so we must correct that. And if God will He can forgive all sins but God wants a reason for that. And that reason must pay/do by humans but not by God.

But you do accept that the reason sins are so terrible is because they break God’s law, right? Or that every sin is incredibly bad because it stands in contrast to God’s incredible goodness. Some of our holiest saints realised that sins another might think of as small, were in fact great evils, simply because they broke God’s law.
You also believe that God is just, perfectly just, in fact, yet also perfectly merciful, and here’s a problem. If we break God’s law, that’s a crime against justice, and it must be repaid, otherwise if justice weren’t satisfied, God wouldn’t be God. For us when it comes to justice and mercy, we usually have to make a choice, but God doesn’t, because to decide between either would be to neglect one characteristic of Himself. What if a person lived a terrible life, but realised shortly before dying the truth, and repented sincerely? They never really repaid their debt, so God isn’t being just, and if God only lets people into heaven who have done more good than bad, and so have ‘balanced their chequebook’, then He isn’t being merciful either, because technically they’ve earned their way to heaven by themself. (Actually, we say that the reason they were able to be so good in the first place is because at one point in time God died so they could repent, but that’s sidetracking).
So the way for God to be both just AND merciful at the same time, is for Him to die for us. You said humans should pay the price, but if God was fully human, then that’s what’s happening. A human being is paying human blood for sin (and the price of sin is, in fact, human blood, since it causes human suffering), and the divinity of that human being means every drop of His blood is worth the world, so it’s enough to pay the price for all of our sins. Someone once said that the shape of the Cross is what it is, because it shows the intersection of justice and mercy.

If Jesus was a God then He cannot be a prophet. God sent prophet but God do not do prophet’s job. And if God suffer and get tired instead of human then human do not pay and satisfy debts and sins but human get into debt much more. Who can harm a God? If Son is a God then how an other God can harm? That is like a bit Greek mythology! And there is no degree in a divinity structure. I mean Father must not be superior over Son because both are God(?) Jesus allways says that “I will ask father(God)”.

You know, there’s nothing to say God can’t be a prophet. I imagine the reason He usually spoke to one human at a time was simply because otherwise you’d have to have God speaking in a booming voice for everyone to hear.
You’re a bit backwards on your next point; it’s true that ‘if God pays our debts, we can’t’, but we couldn’t anyway. It’s either God pays our debts, or nobody does, and frankly I’d rather not go to hell if possible We’re totally dependent on His mercy. But it’s not true that we get into more debt by virtue of God having died for us, on the contrary it gives us the graces we need to repent and become better people.
If God takes on a form that can be harmed, then I guess people can harm Him, not much to that really.
You’re right on the last bit though, the Father isn’t superior to the Son, but Jesus is nonetheless humble, to be our model of humility, and because it’s fitting for Him as the Son to be humble before the Father. It’s not that God ordered Jesus to go die, so much as Jesus volunteered at the same time God sent Him - their wills are perfectly aligned.

 

[Trekker47]

Did only St Paul get from Jesus or were eyewitnesses?

Hundreds of eyewitnesses.

Jesus was not crucifixed so He may appear to someone for 3 days.

Maybe look over Randy Carson’s excellent post on all the indisputable evidence that the Crucifixion actually happened.

Gabriel brought Bible to Jesus and Jesus taught His disciples during His life. After death of Jesus saints wrote what Jesus did and said. So the possibility of addition is in that.

Jesus was a great prophet and disciples saw many miracles from Jesus. They respect Jesus very much even a bit excessively and ultimately. So after death of Jesus some thought that Jesus was a God because of too too love for Jesus. Except miracles do anybody can show the attributes of God from Jesus?

I highly doubt you’ll be able to find any evidence to suggest that Jesus received messages from Gabriel telling Him what to say or do every His life. As for addition, I take it you don’t realise the sheer scale of writing the Bible; the evangelists spoke with hundreds of witnesses and went over all their stories to see that they matched up. It’s not just a couple of people remembering years of material; it simply doesn’t make sense that they’d deify Him for no reason beyond the fact that they thought He was a really great guy. By contrast, the accounts of Jesus’ life seem to suggest that He gave plenty of evidence that He was in fact who we believe He was. For example:

1. Jesus claims to be God (John 8:56-59)
Jesus replied… 56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
There’s an incident in the Old Testament where Moses asks God who He is, and God calls Himself “I am”. It was forbidden for the Jews to use the words “I am”, since that was the name of God. Hence, when Jesus says it, it was pretty obvious to them that He was claiming to be God, so they tried to stone Him for blasphemy. Not only this, but the implication that Jesus was around long before Abraham was born indicates that He, like God, is timeless.

B) (John 10:29-31)
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30"I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
Again, stoning for blasphemy in claiming to be God, that’s pretty clear.

C)
Jesus claims multiple times to be “the life”, or “the way, the truth, and the life”. For instance in John 11:25-27 and John 14:16. At one point He claims *“I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies”. *
Not only does this suggest the Resurrection, it also indicates that He is God, as God is the source of all life and truth.

2. Jesus never denies any claim that He is God
It’s worth noting that any holy person would be worried if they thought others might think they were God, and would hasten to correct them. The apostles certainly did when they later went preaching (Acts 14:11-18).
However, Jesus multiple times is referred to as God, yet He never corrects the speaker, for example:
A) The story of doubting Thomas, where Thomas, on recognising Jesus, identifies Him as “My Lord and my God” (John 20:24-29). That really speaks for itself.
B) In John 3:16, Jesus refers to Himself as God’s “only begotten Son”.
C) When Jesus asks Peter who He is, and Peter identifies Him as "the Son of the Living God, and Jesus makes a big deal of how important this is.
*15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 * (Matthew 16)
D) Those times when people worship Jesus. A few examples - Mt 28:9, Mt 14:33 John 9:38
And they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples. 9And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.

3. Jesus forgives sins
Ok here’s the thing, we can all agree that only God can forgive sins, because it’s God’s law we break when we do sin. Hence Jesus forgiving sins was a big thing. Perhaps the best example here is Mark 2, the incident with the paralysed man, because here Jesus shows His absolute authority to forgive sins. When He tells the man that he’s healed, it happens, which is proof that when Jesus told the man that He’d forgiven his sins, they were actually forgiven.

When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

Or Luke 7:49 gives testimony too to Jesus divinity by his ability to forgive sins:
The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

 

[Randy_Carson]

If Jesus was a God then He cannot be a prophet. God sent prophet but God do not do prophet’s job. And if God suffer and get tired instead of human then human do not pay and satisfy debts and sins but human get into debt much more. Who can harm a God? If Son is a God then how an other God can harm? That is like a bit Greek mythology! And there is no degree in a divinity structure. I mean Father must not be superior over Son because both are God(?) Jesus allways says that “I will ask father(God)”.

Jesus was FULLY God and FULLY man. As a man, he had to grow up, learn things, fall down and skin his knees, etc. In his human intellect, he did not have infinite knowledge of the future.

God is not a man and if God was a man He cannot enforce obedience anybody. God do not need to be a man to understant a man. If God cannot understant a man then how He can be God? Forexample when I regret and repent for a sin as inside myself then God must know and hear that because He is God. There are many propblems with that two nature!..

I agree…God is not a man. He does not need to be a man to understand a man. If there are problems with Jesus having two natures, you have not shown them, yet.

God sent prophet to save us and that is God’s law from Adam to Abraham-Moses-Jesus-Muhammed. And who believe in prophets and so in God and obey God and worship and repent for sins then there is salvation for them. Do no be egoist because the salvation was/is not only for who say we are Christians.

A prophet cannot save. Only God can save because the situation of man requires one greater than a man to overcome.

Does Allah love you?

 

[Randy_Carson]

The Muslim participants in this discussion deny that Jesus was actually crucified. However, on this point there is ample evidence from non-Biblical sources to corroborate the Christian account of Jesus’ death.

Around AD 93-94, the Jewish historian, Josephus, compiled a famous work, Antiquities of the Jews, which was written in order to give the Romans an understanding of Jewish history. This work, then, was not written by someone who could be considered a believer of Christianity or even sympathetic to the new religion. In this work, Josephus wrote:

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following both among many Jews and many of Greek origin. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. (Josephus, Testimonium Flavium in Antiquities of the Jews, AD 93-94, reconstructed by Meier).

For the purposes of this thread, the key passage is: “Pilate…condemned him to the cross”.

This account, written by a reluctant (possibly hostile) witness, confirms that Jesus was crucified at the order of the Roman procurator, Pontius Pilate, just as the gospels of the New Testament state.

In light of this early, non-biblical, non-Christian account written by a professional historian, the burden of proof lies upon those who deny the crucifixion of Jesus and who must provide equally compelling historical evidence to support their claims that Jesus was not crucified.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Gabriel brought Bible to Jesus and Jesus taught His disciples during His life. After death of Jesus saints wrote what Jesus did and said. So the possibility of addition is in that. If disciples did not memorize all the Bible as Sahabas memorize all Quran then there should be many addition or shortages in revelation which come to Jesus. But Quran verses were written by Sahabas after Gabriel brought and also verses were memorized. Caliph Abu Bakr compile verses in a book.

hasantas-

There are over 5,000 manuscript copies of the New Testament scattered around the libraries and museums of the world. We can compare them to determine whether any additions have been made to the text. For example, if 4,999 texts say one thing, and one text says something slightly different, odds are that the one text is wrong and the 4,999 are correct.

Make sense?

Muslims believe that the Bible has been corrupted, but let’s stay focused on the New Testament since that tells the story of Jesus and Christianity. I have over 5,000 manuscripts which support the common Christian view.

Can you produce a single early manuscript of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John which demonstrates that these books did not teach the death and resurrection of Jesus before all the other manuscripts were corrupted by later additions?

Thanks.

 

[KjetilK]

No, I don’t believe he was crucified.

Unfortunately you won’t find a single serious scholar of history that agrees with you.

You choose to ignore a historical document that was compiled less than a 100 years after the event it described in favour of a document compiled almost 600 years after the event it described. Why?

BUMP. Still waiting for an answer.

 

[hasantas]

I’m not a theologian, so I can’t say whether it would impede God’s ability to judge us if He hadn’t suffered, and been tempted like us, perhaps someone else can shed some light on the matter, but I’m going to consider why it’s important for God to go through human trials from a different perspective now.
I suppose you’d agree that anything we do comes inherently from God, even our existence. For instance, when we love, we can do that because God loves, right? God puts a bit of his own love into us, and that makes us able to love each other and Him, hence people who are utterly cut off from God seem unable to love. It’s like how a child learns to write by having someone who already knows how to write hold their hand and help them form the letters on the page.
Well that’s all well and good for the things God normally does, as God, but what about the things He doesn’t do, the trials that unique to humans? You’ve already stated that the important thing for us to get back to God after we’ve sinned is to repent and humble ourselves before Him, but consider this: the better a person is, the easier it is for them to repent and be humble, and the worse a person is, the harder it gets. Hence, it would take a perfect person to repent perfectly, and none of us are perfect; so if God can’t “hold our hand” to teach us how to repent, we’re pretty much doomed already. Unless

 

[hasantas]

I highly doubt you’ll be able to find any evidence to suggest that Jesus received messages from Gabriel telling Him what to say or do every His life. As for addition, I take it you don’t realise the sheer scale of writing the Bible; the evangelists spoke with hundreds of witnesses and went over all their stories to see that they matched up. It’s not just a couple of people remembering years of material; it simply doesn’t make sense that they’d deify Him for no reason beyond the fact that they thought He was a really great guy. By contrast, the accounts of Jesus’ life seem to suggest that He gave plenty of evidence that He was in fact who we believe He was. For example:

1. Jesus claims to be God (John 8:56-59)
Jesus replied… 56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
There’s an incident in the Old Testament where Moses asks God who He is, and God calls Himself “I am”. It was forbidden for the Jews to use the words “I am”, since that was the name of God. Hence, when Jesus says it, it was pretty obvious to them that He was claiming to be God, so they tried to stone Him for blasphemy. Not only this, but the implication that Jesus was around long before Abraham was born indicates that He, like God, is timeless.

I will tell much about Muhammed. So was Muhammed a God? We(Muslims) believe in that everything was created from light of Muhammed. Muhammed could see many different times some centuries before and after.

Muhammed went and progress through Heavens. Muhammed saw all prophets in Heavens and reach and saw God with His body(Miracle of Mirach).

Muhammed could see the people in Heavens or Hell(the future!)

Muhammed report many news which would happen in the future.

There are Avliya(Moraly High people in İslam) who can see angels, Heavens etc.

So if God taught Jesus then Jesus might do very wondrous works and indeed He did.

 

[ajecphotos]

Jesus, Son Of God! It says it right there ‘God’ Son of God! Like Father, Like Son!

 

[hasantas]

B)

 

[SteveVH]

And also Jesus tell a piece of good news(Jesus herald Muhammed!)

And when did he do that?

 

[Trekker47]

And when did he do that?

It’s probably that idea they have whereby Jesus referring to the coming of the Holy Spirit is meant to actually refer to Muhammed, which doesn’t even make sense. I mean, try imagining the ‘he’ here as Muhammed and you see the issues.

*"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. *

 

[hasantas]

2. Jesus never denies any claim that He is God

 

[hasantas]

It’s probably that idea they have whereby Jesus referring to the coming of the Holy Spirit is meant to actually refer to Muhammed, which doesn’t even make sense. I mean, try imagining the ‘he’ here as Muhammed and you see the issues.

*"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. *

“that He may be with you forever;” There is no any prophet after Muhammed.

Muhammed is spirit of every truth.

Even world does not kow exactly but believer know Him very well and Muhammed is in hearts of believers.

 

[hasantas]

3. Jesus forgives sins
Ok here’s the thing, we can all agree that only God can forgive sins, because it’s God’s law we break when we do sin. Hence Jesus forgiving sins was a big thing. Perhaps the best example here is Mark 2, the incident with the paralysed man, because here Jesus shows His absolute authority to forgive sins. When He tells the man that he’s healed, it happens, which is proof that when Jesus told the man that He’d forgiven his sins, they were actually forgiven.

When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

Or Luke 7:49 gives testimony too to Jesus divinity by his ability to forgive sins:
The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

Jesus did not forgive sins but Jesus inform that the sins are being forgiven.(Jesus got that knowledge from God and then express)

Sahabas had commit very sins before Islam. But with faith all that sins were cleaned.(because they were not aware exactly if they commit sins before). Jesus indicate that with faith sins are being forgiven

 

[hasantas]

Jesus was FULLY God and FULLY man. As a man, he had to grow up, learn things, fall down and skin his knees, etc. In his human intellect, he did not have infinite knowledge of the future.

I agree…God is not a man. He does not need to be a man to understand a man. If there are problems with Jesus having two natures, you have not shown them, yet.

A prophet cannot save. Only God can save because the situation of man requires one greater than a man to overcome.

Does Allah love you?

What animate Jesus body? A human soul or God’s soul? If that was a human soul then where is that soul now? Will Jesus have two natures in Heavens? If God destroyed that soul is that not unjustice? Because that soul was a prophet’s(as human nature). And did human soul have a omniscience or omnipotence? If not that soul must be very apart from divinity.

Or while human soul was in body then what had been divine soul doing out?

Or if God Himself settled in body then how we can say that is a human and how can be a prophet?(God does not settle in time or matter but God effect and create time and matter). If we company God with matter in anyway then we must assume matter to be eternal. And that work for unbeliever!

 

[SteveVH]

Jesus did not forgive sins but Jesus inform that the sins are being forgiven.(Jesus got that knowledge from God and then express)

*17One day Jesus was teaching, and Pharisees and teachers of the law were sitting there. They had come from every village of Galilee and from Judea and Jerusalem. And the power of the Lord was with Jesus to heal the sick. 18Some men came carrying a paralyzed man on a mat and tried to take him into the house to lay him before Jesus. 19When they could not find a way to do this because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and lowered him on his mat through the tiles into the middle of the crowd, right in front of Jesus.

20When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

21The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

22Jesus knew what they were thinking and asked, “Why are you thinking these things in your hearts? 23Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? **24But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” *So he said to the paralyzed man, “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 25Immediately he stood up in front of them, took what he had been lying on and went home praising God. 26Everyone was amazed and gave praise to God. They were filled with awe and said, “We have seen remarkable things today.” (Luke 5:17-26)

 

[SteveVH]

What animate Jesus body? A human soul or God’s soul?

Human.

If that was a human soul then where is that soul now?

In heaven, within Jesus’ glorified human Body, sitting at the right hand of the Father.

Will Jesus have two natures in Heavens?

Yes. He will always be Jesus, fully human (now glorified) and fully divine.

If God destroyed that soul is that not unjustice?

Well the good news is that he didn’t destroy that soul. He lives for eternity.

Because that soul was a prophet’s(as human nature). And did human soul have a omniscience or omnipotence? If not that soul must be very apart from divinity.

Jesus’ human soul did not have omniscience or omnipotence. Our soul comprises our intellect and our will. Christ had a human intellect and will (He had to grow in human knowledge), but he also had the infinite intellect and will of God (he could read people’s hearts and perform miracles).

Or if God Himself settled in body then how we can say that is a human and how can be a prophet?(God does not settle in time or matter but God effect and create time and matter). If we company God with matter in anyway then we must assume matter to be eternal. And that work for unbeliever!

Why can’t God do whatever He wants to do? Why do you place limitations on Him? Could God not become flesh if that what He desired? Does he not have the power?

God did not “settle in a body”. He assumed human flesh and came into this world the way all of us come into this world (with the exception that He was born of a virgin). He became man and dwelt among us. Why do you not believe this to be possible when all things are possible with God?

Peace.

Steve