Muslims, how can this be proper?

[Sister_Amy]

Sister Amy; of course a liar cannot be among believers, but can a LIAR be among unbelievers is the question?

In Islam, someone who lies is called a hypocrite. Very bad. In fact it is a sign of the hypocrite.

Tell me Amy, can you offer a solution for the threats of Islam, that threaten to kill all those outside of Islam, and have already done so. What solution do you offer for those innocent victims from Islam radicals who force them to convert or be killed?

You know that Muslims are responsible for the deaths of more Muslims than anyone else? Muslims are killing Muslims. So I think as a Muslim I am more likely to be a victim of Islamic violence than a non-Muslim.

There is no justification for anyoen who FORCES someone to convert on threat of death. I think people like yourself should start listening to the Muslims like myself who stand against persecution and against tyranny and against compulsion in religion, and should support us and amplify us, rather than trying to battle against us with those who attack us as well.

praying for peace

me too.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I think people like yourself should start listening to the Muslims like myself who stand against persecution and against tyranny and against compulsion in religion, and should support us and amplify us, rather than trying to battle against us with those who attack us as well.

The Quran and Islamic history do not support your views.

 

[Postmodern]

The Quran and Islamic history do not support your views.

which views?

 

[Sister_Amy]

The Quran and Islamic history do not support your views.

The Qur’an of course does support my views.

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. (2:256)

…Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; (2:191, 2:217)

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. (4:135)

 

[Verisimilitude]

which views?

That compassion and charity by Muslims for non-Muslims is in the Quran and Sunnah. That such compassion is an attribute if Islamic teaching from the begining. That Muslims consider non-Muslims as one brotherhood. That lying is an unauthorized act according to the Quran and Islamic history.

 

[rpp]

o.k rpp, what is bothering you? How do you feel that Muslims are allowed to lie to non-Muslims. There have been 111 posts. I am sure the matter must have been replied but you did not notice it.

There is no such thing as lying in Islam. It is trictly forbidden. Even before a tyrant king, it is necessary that the Muslims should speak the truth. Please go back and read the previous posts. You may find the necessay arguments there.
Otherwise bring your claim if it is different from what has already been posted and replied.

No the questions had not been answered.

The issue is not whether Muslims are permitted to lie about Islam to non-believers; that is a well established fact. Denying it only proves the point.

The real question is why are Muslims permitted to lie to non-believers?

As follow-up to this is that when someone is converted to Islam because they has been lied to, how can Allah accept the conversion is genuine? After all, if you signed a contract under false pretenses, the contract would be invalid. How can salvation be authentic hen it is based on a lie (or coercion for that matter)?

Those are the real questions.

 

[Verisimilitude]

The Qur’an of course does support my views.

No, it contradicts your stated views.

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. (2:256)

…Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; (2:191, 2:217)

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. (4:135)

If there is no compulsion why then is it Islaimc practice to first invite others to join Islam and if it is refused Muslims are commanded to fight for allah? Why does the Quran call out only to those who believe and please define justice according to the Quran in that sense.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

In Islam, someone who lies is called a hypocrite. Very bad. In fact it is a sign of the hypocrite.

You know that Muslims are responsible for the deaths of more Muslims than anyone else? Muslims are killing Muslims. So I think as a Muslim I am more likely to be a victim of Islamic violence than a non-Muslim.

There is no justification for anyoen who FORCES someone to convert on threat of death. I think people like yourself should start listening to the Muslims like myself who stand against persecution and against tyranny and against compulsion in religion, and should support us and amplify us, rather than trying to battle against us with those who attack us as well.

me too.

I respect what you say here tremendously. Just as you have on your side who disagree with your peacful interpretations, I too have those who fear the threats of Islam on my side, and would call one like me who seeks a peaceful means to our present circumstances one who sleeps to the threats. So you and I both have something in common.

The topic of discussion here is the deceptions of Islam towards it enemies, or those who are not Muslim. We have those on all fronts having a just reason for their assumptions. This seems to be what is difficult. It is here that our founder of the Christian faith, makes a sacrifice to be about peace with his life. I believe a truthful understanding and belief in the teachings of Jesus, can bring this to a peaceful solution, if Muslims will take the teachings of Jesus in the Quran and live by them, as Christians do…

Peace be with you my sister…

 

[R_not]

Ok R-not, When one comes to the reality of Islam and its deceptions to conquer and destroy all other outside of Islam. What would be your solution to such a destructive ideology? once all of humanity is forewarned of the consequences of Islam coming to your city. Do you offer a peaceful solution, or a counter to the deception of Islam? Or are you one calling in the wilderness?

Peace

You don’t want my opinion on what all should be done. but, get rid of the MSA in our schools, stop segregation, stop immigration from ALL muslim countries, and do back ground checks on anyone who is a muslim, allow profiling, get rid of saudi funded mosques, madrassas, CAIR, imams, clerics, etc.

There is more but you don’t want to hear it - it is basically a consequence if muslims are found plotting against the USA. The behavior of traitors needs to be recognized and to bring back dealing with them. Unfortunately, Senators like Kerry, or ex-Presidents like Carter, might have to pay a consequence for that.

Reclassify islam as a political movement and get it out of the religion category since it wants to behave as a political movement.

etc.

 

[katy_kt]

R_not, it is because people say such things that Muslims think negatively of Christians

 

[Postmodern]

You don’t want my opinion on what all should be done. but, get rid of the MSA in our schools, stop segregation, stop immigration from ALL muslim countries, and do back ground checks on anyone who is a muslim, allow profiling, get rid of saudi funded mosques, madrassas, CAIR, imams, clerics, etc.

There is more but you don’t want to hear it - it is basically a consequence if muslims are found plotting against the USA. The behavior of traitors needs to be recognized and to bring back dealing with them. Unfortunately, Senators like Kerry, or ex-Presidents like Carter, might have to pay a consequence for that.

Reclassify islam as a political movement and get it out of the religion category since it wants to behave as a political movement.

etc.

Wow.

What the hell happened to you?

Honestly. I don’t mean that as an insult. What happened to you that you have become this?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

You don’t want my opinion on what all should be done. but, get rid of the MSA in our schools, stop segregation, stop immigration from ALL muslim countries, and do back ground checks on anyone who is a muslim, allow profiling, get rid of saudi funded mosques, madrassas, CAIR, imams, clerics, etc.

There is more but you don’t want to hear it - it is basically a consequence if muslims are found plotting against the USA. The behavior of traitors needs to be recognized and to bring back dealing with them. Unfortunately, Senators like Kerry, or ex-Presidents like Carter, might have to pay a consequence for that.

Reclassify islam as a political movement and get it out of the religion category since it wants to behave as a political movement.

etc.

This is where Muslims may have the U.S in a catch 22, because as a democratic society, we have freedom of religion, seperation of church and state. Muslims have the advantage in the free world, because one they can claim “freedom of religion”, and grow their underground political Islamic government movement without being noticed under the title of “Islam religion”. The Quran speaks volumes on how to divide and conquer by deception to those outside of Islam.

I think our political parties need to rethink this freedom of religion act in the constitution. and amend it so as no religion with political tendencies can infiltrate our free society.

Sorry I have to go now;

Peace be with you

 

[R_not]

R_not, it is because people say such things that Muslims think negatively of Christians

Yeah, I guess we should become more like the guinea pig and just run and hide.

The muslims would prefer that we behaved more like the Sudanese and not know anything about islam and now look at the Sudanese. There children will be condemned to islam soon if no one helps them. As are many once Catholics that used to reside in the Middle East, Southeast Asia, etc - now are either subjugated or dead.

I should add the same thing happened to the Christians in Lebanon too - they did nothing and now look what they have - a pit of a country full of muslim violence.

 

[R_not]

This is where Muslims may have the U.S in a catch 22, because as a democratic society, we have freedom of religion, seperation of church and state. Muslims have the advantage in the free world, because one they can claim “freedom of religion”, and grow their underground political Islamic government movement without being noticed under the title of “Islam religion”. The Quran speaks volumes on how to divide and conquer by deception to those outside of Islam.

I think our political parties need to rethink this freedom of religion act in the constitution. and amend it so as no religion with political tendencies can infiltrate our free society.

Sorry I have to go now;

Peace be with you

All we have to do is stand up for our laws that are so obviously superior to sharia law. People flock to our shores.

We should not go backwards and start allowing segregation, or known terrorist related groups such as the MSA in our schools.

Oh well, I already said that. You have a nice day.

 

[Booklover]

Wow.

What the hell happened to you?

Honestly. I don’t mean that as an insult. What happened to you that you have become this?

What would you do to stop something that threatens everything you believe in? She’s simply stating it as it is. We need to wake up to the threat that Islam is. If we continue to give in to Muslims’ never ending demands,
we’ll find out one day that we’re the ones that have no freedoms left! When something becomes a threat to others, that’s the end of its freedom.

Islam is not only a religion, but also a very dangerous political ideology whose goals are to destroy all other religions and forms of government and set itself up as master of the world.


"During an official meeting on Islamic-Christian dialogue, an authoritative Muslim person, speaking to the Christians participating, at one point said very calmly and assuredly: “**Thanks to your democratic laws we will invade you; thanks to your religious laws we will dominate you…” **

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

This is where Muslims may have the U.S in a catch 22, because as a democratic society, we have freedom of religion, seperation of church and state. Muslims have the advantage in the free world, because one they can claim “freedom of religion”, and grow their underground political Islamic government movement without being noticed under the title of “Islam religion”. The Quran speaks volumes on how to divide and conquer by deception to those outside of Islam.

I think our political parties need to rethink this freedom of religion act in the constitution. and amend it so as no religion with political tendencies can infiltrate our free society.

Sorry I have to go now;

Peace be with you

Vickie

 

[Verisimilitude]

I think our political parties need to rethink this freedom of religion act in the constitution. and amend it so as no religion with political tendencies can infiltrate our free society.

Our current style of government has left common sense back in the early 1900’s and again in the 60’s, and again in 2003 forgetting or ignoring it to the point government has replaced religion in its entirety.

What we need to rethink is ‘what is religion’- the Constitution is fine and needs nothing more than a right interpretation. The 1st Amendment states only that government will make no law establishing a state religion like England had. But in the PC environment of all religions are equal and all religions have a right to express themselves is what needs to be addressed. Scientology is as much a religion as hedonism, and Islam is little more than a political ideology superimposed on a misguided faith.

When the tenets of a ‘faith’ dictate civil punishments for offenses to the faith is when the limit must be drawn. When such tenets permit lying and deceit to further itself the line smust be drawn.

We need to show the Islamic ideology is one that infringes on basic human rights of the non-Muslim and that should be the basis of limiting its influence in the West.

 

[R_not]

Wow.

What the hell happened to you?

Honestly. I don’t mean that as an insult. What happened to you that you have become this?

Your comment shows me that you have not read the koran and hadiths.

You have not a clue as to the Middle East history since mohammed’s time. Nor do you have a clue as to the history of India, its 3 major jihads against it and the current one declared against it late last year. Nor do you have a clue as to Lebanon’s current history in the last 4-5 decades, or Southeast Asia’s many islands’ history in the last century, nor Africa’s history, etc.

And if you haven’t been reading those historys in relation to islam then you haven’t been reading what has been happening in Europe in the last 3-4 decades either.

If you did you would have cause for concern.

I guess standing up for our laws and getting rid of segregation is against your moral fiber. Now, the one thing in all of this that should concern you is that they are bringin back segregation. Can you imagine what would happen if white people did that against the blacks, or any minority or the muslims? The outcry would be unimaginable. But, not a peep out of the left, or not too many others either.

And you wonder what is wrong with me. I wonder the same about you and your types.

I have a website on my signature that you haven’t even read. It might tell you something that there is cause for concern.

 

[Sister_Amy]

If you don’t like freedom of religion, perhaps you would like to be forced to follow the Church of America, a non-denominational (Protestant) evangelical church which rejects the Catholic tradition and the Pope.

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. (Thomas Jefferson)

Want for your brother what you want for yourself. There is political strife in the Muslim world, but not because of Islam. Turning Muslims into some boogeyman is a real travesty of global diversity. It’s an opinion that I hope those of you who have here espoused it will reconsider.

 

[R_not]

If you don’t like freedom of religion, perhaps you would like to be forced to follow the Church of America, a non-denominational (Protestant) evangelical church which rejects the Catholic tradition and the Pope.

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. (Thomas Jefferson)

Want for your brother what you want for yourself. There is political strife in the Muslim world, but not because of Islam. Turning Muslims into some boogeyman is a real travesty of global diversity. It’s an opinion that I hope those of you who have here espoused it will reconsider.

Then instead of putting so much energy into trying to convince us of what islam isn’t - why don’t you waste your energy on your own? I have posted so much - about the MSA and the muslim brotherhod, the muslim clerics, jihadists, ‘moderates’ who are boldly deceiving when talking about their koran and hadiths, etc who must be misunderstanding islam - they incite hatred of their own and then turn around and lie about it.

And with your own words of islam being a political movement and that you want to replace our laws with sharia law, you can’t have it both ways sister amy. Either islam starts dealing with their own and make it peaceful and change their sharia laws to give rights to infidels and their own women - and get out of the political arena - or be reclassified.

Until then - we understand islam very well. As your own words have reinforced our understanding that it is here to over take us.