There are several sheiks and imams who believe what the Qur’an teaches about rewards in Paradise. Some say the houris are women, but a more recent research claimed it actually meant 72 white grapes.
Seriously, now. Are you an aware of an authentic teaching in Islamic sources about 72 virgins? If you are, then produce it, for I’ve yet to find one. “Several sheikhs and imams” means nothing.There are several sheiks and imams who believe what the Qur’an teaches about rewards in Paradise. Some say the houris are women, but a more recent research claimed it actually meant 72 white grapes.
Women in Saudi Arabia have always been used as assets. That would make more sense than giving the just man 72, (possibly shriveled dried) white grapes. Maybe there could be a well in “Paradise” where he can throw them in to pass time?
Actually there are authentic sources for what cathopologist mentioned, here are two authentic Hadiths by Muhammed himself mentioning the 72 virgins:cathopologist;4259451:
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Women in Saudi Arabia have always been used as assets. That would make more sense than giving the just man 72, (possibly shriveled dried) white grapes. Maybe there could be a well in “Paradise” where he can throw them in to pass time?
Seriously, now. Are you an aware of an authentic teaching in Islamic sources about 72 virgins? If you are, then produce it, for I’ve yet to find one. “Several sheikhs and imams” means nothing.
Hello Brother…
Its time consuming to translate every word in those hadiths, what is matter that the underlining words saying 72 virgins/wives, however here is a Google translation site which would translate that for you.
[
](http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/055.sbt.html)
[ (Qur’anic Commentary) of Surah Qur’an 55:72
Tafsir](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri#Qur.27an)
No matter how much modern Muslim apologists try to waterdown the vivid materialism and sexual implications of Islamic teachings, others such as the writings of Imam Al-Suyuti clearly reiterates what Islamic oral tradition has taught throughout the centuries:
Vulgar? Sure, but this inspiration did stem out from a religion that preaches peace, love and tolerance. Afterall, Al-Suyuti’s source of inspiration came directly from the teachings of such Muslim narrators, hadiths and Qur’anic verses. Can you blame him?
Actually brother Sam_777, google’s translator does not always give the best translations. It may be time-consuming, but it’s time worth spent as everybody will benefit from reading your proper translations. I hope you’ll consider.
The sources i pulled out are authentic. Many Muslims i know also say Ibn Kathir, Imam Al-Suyuti and Abu Haraira are authentic narrators/teachers. If you think otherwise, it’s your words against millions of Muslims around the world.
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Okay Sister Amy, I will translate that for you, because I feel that you are seeking the truth, however, please note the difference in the two hadithes in the number of servants, one states 300 and the other one 80,000, yes that is eighty thousand, there is no typo.
I think you know it’s far more complicated than that.
More than often, people try to censor something that is embarrasing. Especially if it concerns religious teachings.
If you recall, I am the one asking for the proof… Do you think I am simultaneously trying to censor the very thing I am asking you to produce?
I hold both Abu Hurayrah and Ibn Kathir in very high regard myself. But quoting either alone is not sufficient Authentic proof for which I asked.
For sure, the ‘houri’ is mentioned even in the Qur’an and I am not disputing that at all. What I am contesting is both the vulgar interpretation of the term as well as the specific number which so far seems entirely unfounded or weak at best. If it is weak or fabricated, I want to know why non-Muslims keep bringing it up when Muslims don’t.
In fact, there hasn’t been one shred of authentic evidence posted yet, which I specifically requested. Not one shred!
I’m not saying you are guilty of censoring topics. Rather, most Muslims whom you ask, will deliberately avoid the issue by bringing up another topic or completely be silent about it. I have experienced that many times. It will take a great deal of trust, before a Muslim openly admits what the books of Islam teaches. It took a while, but i did manage to gain the trust of some Muslims i know personally. What they revealed to me (about the houris) was convincing and i knew they were interpreting it to the best of their abilities.
This is just like saying, “I believe what the doctors of the Church and the Early Church Fathers taught, but quoting their words is not sufficient, authentic proof”. You see what you read, and you know what it is, but you deny what it teaches, because you do not subscribe to their thinking.
Actually, non-Muslims find such interpretations vulgar too. But back in the 7th century, it was considered ‘poetic’. Many of the Qur’anic translations, narrations and commentaries we have today is a watered-down version of the original. Its contents have been made ‘cleaner’ so as to not offend the righteous reader.
You can go on calling anyone who presents the truth as liars. It is after all, the easiest way out. As i said, there are many people here in this forum who speak Arabic and are Arab Christians. Some even have degrees in Near Eastern languages.In fact, there hasn’t been one shred of authentic evidence posted yet, which I specifically requested. Not one shred!
In order for something to be authentic, it needs to have been verified as authentic. If I tell you that my dad heard Abu Hurayrah say something, and you know my dad to be a liar who makes stuff up about Abu Hurayrah, why would you believe me? That’s exactly why saying Abu Hurayrah said something is not enough for it to be authentic. So. I’m still waiting for that authentic evidence, unless you would like to perhaps concede that it is actually based on weak, inauthentic reports, and is not an authentic, popular, or common understanding, interpretation, or teaching of Islam.
Let me remind you and anyone reading, that it isn’t Muslims who claim this about Islam, but rather it is something ascribed, rather frequently, to Islam by non-Muslims, specifically those who for one reason or another are bent on attacking Islam. And that’s exactly why we should question its validity and authenticity, as I am doing now. And frankly, my queries have not led you so far to produce a single shred of authentic evidence to support this claim.
So I’d like to let it go to rest.
Actually, it’s not at all like saying that. If you were to go to a madrasa and actually study Islam with a sheikh, you would learn something, I’d hope, about the science of hadith. In fact, Muslims (unlike Catholics or any Christians for that matter) rigorously examine each and every single narration including its chain (and we might have one saying with many chains, each is investigated), to determine its authenticity and the validity of each and every transmitter. That is a standard in Islam, and it’s all I’m asking you for–something which has passed that test. If you can’t find something which has passed, then your position simply lacks validity.
The Qur’an is in Arabic, and it has not been changed. You may read it for yourself in the original if you find your translation to be “watered down.”
Who am I calling a liar? I don’t think I am calling anyone a liar–forgive me if I’ve done that, but I promise you that was not my intent.
Ah, yes, the wonderful madrasahs!
I think you’ve been give ample proof, but refuse to accept it, because after all, it’s not very palatable, is it?Who am I calling a liar? I don’t think I am calling anyone a liar–forgive me if I’ve done that, but I promise you that was not my intent.
Nor am I attacking anyone, or attacking the truth as you say.
What I am asking for is simple authentic proof of a particular statement which non-Muslims are attributing to Islam. It’s just a request. If that authentic proof exists, then you ought to be able to find it and present it to me, right? And convince me of my own religion perhaps?
But nobody is bringing me that authentic proof–so you say I’m calling people liars and attacking the truth? But I’m not doing that.
I’m asking for authentic proof, and nobody is delivering it.
If you can’t bring authentic proof, then all I suggest is that you simply file this erroneous claim about Islam under the “weak and fabricated” category in your mind and stop using it to defame Islam when it’s clearly pretty far off the mark. But only if you can’t bring authentic proof.
I’m still waiting…