Muslims Opinion About This ?

[R_not]

Here is a bunch of hadiths - what are muslim’s opinion on these openly talking about deceiving?

on deception in islam:
Bukhari:V7B71N661 “Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle and he was bewitched so that he began to imagine doing things which in fact, he had not done.”

Ishaq:323 “I am the best of plotters. I deceived them with My guile so that I delivered you from them.”

Ishaq:365
Tabari VII:94 “Muhammad bin Maslamah said, ‘O Messenger, we shall have to tell lies.’ ‘Say what you like,’ Muhammad replied. ‘You are absolved, free to say whatever you must.’”

Tabari VIII:23 “The Messenger and his Companions continued in the fear and distress that Allah has described in the Qur’an. Then Nu’aym came to the Prophet. 'I ‘ve become a Muslim, but my tribe does not know of my Islam; so command me whatever you will.’ Muhammad said, ‘Make them abandon each other if you can so that they will leave us; for war is deception.’”

Ishaq:442 “By Muhammad’s order we beguiled them.”
(definition of beguile: to lead by deception)

mohammed the assasination AND deception:

Bukhari:V5B59N369 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?’ Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslamah got up saying, ‘O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet said, ‘Yes,’ Maslamah said, ‘Then allow me to say false things in order to deceive him.’ The Prophet said, ‘You may say such things.’”

 

[Sister_Amy]

Then why did you reply to it?? What are you afraid of? Why are you so reluctant to read anything not complimentary to Islam? I even quoted from an authentic Islamic website and you still refuse to answer.

Vickie

Oh I can read things that are, as you put it “not complimentary to Islam.” I just tend not to read anything posted by YOU because it’s pretty much guaranteed to be totally useless to the discussion at hand at not worth a reply. I mean, I really don’t think you or anyone else cares what my reply is, so I seldom bother to write one of any merit.

I still haven’t read that post, btw… hehehe

 

[Sister_Amy]

Islam is anarchic?

What a bizarre thing to say! Just today I’m sure someone else was declaring Islam to be a government itself… gosh, how can I keep up with all these changes?

On the matter of taqiyya, I have never and will never employed what you called “Taiqiyya” or whatever the hell it is when posting on this forum. NEVER.

And frankly I take that allegation very seriously, because you are calling me a liar.

 

[R_not]

Islam is anarchic?

What a bizarre thing to say! Just today I’m sure someone else was declaring Islam to be a government itself… gosh, how can I keep up with all these changes?

On the matter of taqiyya, I have never and will never employed what you called “Taiqiyya” or whatever the hell it is when posting on this forum. NEVER.

And frankly I take that allegation very seriously, because you are calling me a liar.

Well, it seems you do indeed know what taqiyya is or you wouldn’t become defensive about deception! When you either ignore, deflect, claim that islam is being bashed, etc when the surahs and hadiths point out the violence in islam - I would say that is indeed taqiyya.

Yeah, that is part of the problem with islam - it is a ‘GOVERNMENT’ - which is a political entity. Countries have sharia laws, based on the koran, that rule its people. the worst human rights atrocities are in these lands with sharia law. So, maybe islam should be taken out of the religion category and placed in the ‘form of governments’ category and that way no one will be fooled by islam. I haven’t found anything theologically sound in it, but it does certainly have all the ‘government’ type of things in it such as imperialistic goals, an ‘us verses them’ mentality - if they don’t agree with us then they are ok to kill or subjugate (sounds a lot like fascism - that ‘us verses them’ mentality).

and yes, islam does have the ‘us verse them’ mentality. Even the Catholic Church has recognized this in this article:

La Civilta Cattolica

A quote from the article: According to Islamic law, the world is divided into three parts: dar al-harb (the house of war), dar al-islam (the house of Islam), and dar al-‘ahd (the house of accord); that is, the countries with which a treaty was stipulated. …]

And what is not mentioned in the article is that no treaty with muslims can last longer than 10 years and can be broken at any time. It is called ‘hudna’. It is more along the lines of a ‘cease fire’ which the muslims regroup and/or rearm, or as we are finding out… changing tactics such as a stealth jihad.

Here is a definition of fascism, since some muslims on this thread don’t even know their own texts, I just want to make sure they know the meaning of the word ‘fascism’.

1. a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2. a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality

 

[Sister_Amy]

R Not that post was totally off-topic. Violence?

They were talking about Paradise, now you’re talking about violence? Get a grip.

If you accuse me of lying, I take it seriously.

You probably think that’s because I’m afraid of being “found out.” To the contrary, I know my message is reaching its audience and there’s nothing you can do to stop it.

But calling me a liar is grievously offensive and something that I don’t think I should have to tolerate on these boards. I don’t have much stomach for it.

 

[cathopologist]

Islam is anarchic?

What a bizarre thing to say! Just today I’m sure someone else was declaring Islam to be a government itself… gosh, how can I keep up with all these changes?

On the matter of taqiyya, I have never and will never employed what you called “Taiqiyya” or whatever the hell it is when posting on this forum. NEVER.

And frankly I take that allegation very seriously, because you are calling me a liar.

How can you be offended when your religion condones lying? People have discussed it, have posted quotations from the Qur’an and you still deny it exists? :takeoff:

Do you know what anarchy is? Its not what your typical non-informed dictionary defines it as. Anarchy can be a form of government itself. I bet you didn’t know that, huh?

 

[R_not]

R Not that post was totally off-topic. Violence?

They were talking about Paradise, now you’re talking about violence? Get a grip.

If you accuse me of lying, I take it seriously.

You probably think that’s because I’m afraid of being “found out.” To the contrary, I know my message is reaching its audience and there’s nothing you can do to stop it.

But calling me a liar is grievously offensive and something that I don’t think I should have to tolerate on these boards. I don’t have much stomach for it.

But, your ‘martyrs’ get paradise for doing violence. Why do you think that is ok? Why do you support it by denying it? The violence is actually a part of islam’s imperialistic goals - to establish sharia law in all lands and not to necessarily convert everyone, but to make sure that they accept subjugation.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Temporarily closed pending moderator review by Rachel Malloy