Muslims - Prove that islam existed before muhammad..

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Sister_Amy said:
Sure, you have the right in this world to deny God’s scriptures, and His Messengers. Just like an atheist has the right to deny God altogether.

But don’t think that you can do that and everything will be hunky-dory when you are resurrected and held to account.
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I’m curious, is this kind of third degree that you went through to get you to accept Islam? Sorry, it won’t work with me.

Where’s the proof that Islam existed before Muhammad?

Vickie
 
GodIsGracious said:
First, this post shows the inherent differences in our beliefs.

You’re Muslim. You do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, nor do you believe in the Holy Trinity.
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Abraham was a Muslim–he did not believe that Jesus Christ was divine or that God had a son, nor did he believe in the trinity. Moses was a Muslim–he did not believe that Jesus Christ was divine or that God had a son, nor did he believe in the trinity.
We’re Catholic. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Holy Trinity.
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Which makes Catholics different then all the prophets, doesn’t it!
You’re Muslim. You accept Muhammad (especially since he started your religion).
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No, that’s not why I accept Muhammad. I only accept him because of the Qur’an, which god revealed.
We’re Catholic. We don’t have to accept Muhammad. (Especially since it seems that he espouses NOTHING of our religion.)
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Well Muhammad wasn’t sent to the Muslims, silly, he was sent to all of mankind, which means that you do have to accept him–at least, you do if you believe in God and want to submit to Him. Christians didn’t have to accept him before he came, but now he came and so you do.
You know, I’m not even going to go any further. I have proven beyond a doubt that to be Muslem, or to practice Islam, there are certain tenets and beliefs that one must adhere to in order to be consider Muslem.
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Well obviously. Nobody needed you to prove that–it’s all over the Qur’an.
You refuse to see this. That’s fine. You can stay in your false religion and the rest of us can only pray for your souls.
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I refuse to see that one must have certain tenets and beliefs to be a Muslim? How do I refuse to see that? I openly declare it to be true.
I need to get back to work…
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🤷
 
Booklover said:
I’m curious, is this kind of third degree that you went through to get you to accept Islam? Sorry, it won’t work with me.

Where’s the proof that Islam existed before Muhammad?

Vickie
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Third degree?

As I said already, the proof that Islam existed before Muhammad is in the Bible, actually, since you don’t accept the Qur’an.
 
Booklover said:
I’m curious, is this kind of third degree that you went through to get you to accept Islam? Sorry, it won’t work with me.

Where’s the proof that Islam existed before Muhammad?

Vickie
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Their “proof” is because “Islam” means to “submit to God,” and that Abraham did, indeed, “submit to God,” they fallaciously conclude that Abraham was Muslem and therefore Islam must have existed before Muhammad since Abraham existed before Muhammad. And since Abraham is mentioned in the Bible, they erroneously use the Bible as their “proof.”

I have shown this to be false. I didn’t even need the Bible either. It’s a logical fallacy.

Of course, to believe that would mean they were believing in a false religion, and they couldn’t admit that. To themselves or anyone else. 😃
 
Hypatia said:
This is just a silly question.

Did they live a life of submission to their Creator? This is what it means to be Muslim. They were absolute monotheists, practicing the way of tawhid. Anyone who lives this way — and this has been available to humanity (always and everywhere) because, no matter how much we try to hide from it, we all live in consciousness of our own contingency and creaturliness — is Muslim.

For as long as there has been a creation, there has been, what we call, Islam, and Muslims (those who live in submission to their Creator, practicing tawhid).

So did Abraham worship the one God and live life in submission to God? Yes. Enough said.
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No, not enough said, there is absolutely NO proof that islam existed. And it is not a silly question. The reason you call it silly is because your not capable of answering it.
Again, i will point out, Catholics ARE monotheists, we worship ONE God. Jews worship ONE God, that does not make either of our religions muslim.
Again, i will reiterate, Catholics worship ONE God, Jews worship ONE God, we are NOT muslim.
Now, back to the subject, prove that islam existed before muhammad. I have now told you that the prophets ARE Jewish in the OT, prove otherwise.
Again, as i pointed out, i submit to God, but it does NOT make me muslim.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Oh, let’s see, worshiping a human being, attributing a son to God Almighty, rejecting His messengers and scriptures like I said before. That’s how you’re not submitting to God.

You’re essentially saying “No, God, I won’t worship you ALONE because I want to worship Jesus too,” and “No, God, I won’t accept your Messenger Muhammad or the Qur’an because…” and whatever your reason is. I surely don’t know.
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Oh, your using plantens silly arguments now, Amy, i expected a little more from you.
You have been told a billion times now that Jesus IS God, God is the ONE God. I dont know how many other ways to put it too you, a lot im sure, but muslims fail to understand this concept.
I wont accept a false prophet, which muhammad is.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Sure, you have the right in this world to deny God’s scriptures, and His Messengers. Just like an atheist has the right to deny God altogether.

But don’t think that you can do that and everything will be hunky-dory when you are resurrected and held to account.
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As I stated Mohammed and what he preached was significantly different from what judaism is about.

Thus Mohammed is not a prophet of the same God.
 
GodIsGracious said:
No, not enough said. And I will say it again.

You have defined the word “Islam” to meant “submit to God” (Or “submission to God” - something to that effect.) What that effectively means is that EVERYONE who submits to God is Muslim.

This is not true.

To be Muslim is to believe and agree to its teachings. Abraham did not agree to, nor did he believe in, its teachings. He was Jewish. He practice Judaism.

To be Catholic is to believe and agree to its teachings.

Just because Jews, Catholics, and Muslims all submit to God, it does not all make us Muslim. Get that through your hijab already.

It’s like saying that anyone who speaks Spanish is from Spain. That is patently false. We know this because we have Spaniards (who are from Spain), Mexicans (who are from Mexico), Cubans (who are from Cuba), etc. etc. all speak spanish. The same language does not make a people of the same people.

Therefore, Abraham, nor Jesus, nor anyone else in the Bible, practiced Islam.

You are perpetuating a logical fallacy that a newbie in Introduction to Logic can break down quite easily.

Enough. Said.
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There is only one religion, practiced always and everywhere in forms that were historically appropriate. We have no problem with the religion practiced by Abraham or that it was not identical in practice with that of Jesus (pbuh) or the Prophet (pbuh). Nor with any of the other forms that such submission may have taken in other places. The only question is whether he lived out of a complete submission to the One.

If a Christian or Jew or Buddhist, etc., today, is not Muslim this is not because Islam is something other than submission to the One, or because there is different Religion now than there was in the past, but because that person has not placed themselves in submission to the One.

The problems with Christianity, in particular, are many, and, unfortunately, go the heart Religion itself, undermining monotheism and in the process, not surprisingly, worshiping something finite. How anyone could call this complete submission to God is confusing to say the least.

On the other hand, I think in practice we see how many Christians actually desire Islam and how close they are to understanding the call of God written on their hearts. The doctrine of the Trinity is for the most part meaningless to them and Jesus (pbuh) is not usually treated like a pagan deity, but like the messenger of God that he was.
 
dolphinlove said:
No, not enough said, there is absolutely NO proof that islam existed. And it is not a silly question. The reason you call it silly is because your not capable of answering it.
Again, i will point out, Catholics ARE monotheists, we worship ONE God. Jews worship ONE God, that does not make either of our religions muslim.
Again, i will reiterate, Catholics worship ONE God, Jews worship ONE God, we are NOT muslim.
Now, back to the subject, prove that islam existed before muhammad. I have now told you that the prophets ARE Jewish in the OT, prove otherwise.
Again, as i pointed out, i submit to God, but it does NOT make me muslim.
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Abraham was a Muslim, and his sons, and his grandson and then the tribes of Israel. Moses was. Jesus was, and so were his followers. (3:52.) 🙂

Being Jewish or Christian doesn’t preclude one from being Muslim. However, as you refuse to accept some of God’s Messengers and Scriptures, that does take you out of Islam.
 
Does anyone have Osama’s phone number?

I need to call him and let him know that he can go home now. The western infidels are actually Muslim so there’s no reason for Jihad. :o
 
happilycatholic said:
Does anyone have Osama’s phone number?

I need to call him and let him know that he can go home now. The western infidels are actually Muslim so there’s no reason for Jihad. :o
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HC:

I’m laughing to hard I can’t see… 😃

This made my day!!!
 
dolphinlove said:
Oh, your using plantens silly arguments now, Amy, i expected a little more from you.
You have been told a billion times now that Jesus IS God, God is the ONE God. I dont know how many other ways to put it too you, a lot im sure, but muslims fail to understand this concept.
I wont accept a false prophet, which muhammad is.
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A billion times I’ve been told? Were you keeping count? A lie doesn’t earn truth by repetition.

Muslims do understand what you believe, and reject it totally, they reject that a human being could be God. They do blaspheme who say that God is the son of Mary. 🤷

Just because you keep saying it doesn’t mean I’m going to believe it, it doesn’t make it true.
 
dolphinlove said:
oh here we go again, ISLAM IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE… PERIOD!
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It’s not?

Submit to God and be at peace with him;
in this way prosperity will come to you.

Sounds like Islam to me. Job 22:21

Note that Islam comes from a three-letter root S-L-M, from which is also formed the word salaam, meaning peace. Islam is submission to God in order to obtain peace. This quote from Job says it perfectly. 🙂
 
Sister_Amy said:
A billion times I’ve been told? Were you keeping count? A lie doesn’t earn truth by repetition.

Muslims do understand what you believe, and reject it totally, they reject that a human being could be God. They do blaspheme who say that God is the son of Mary. 🤷

Just because you keep saying it doesn’t mean I’m going to believe it, it doesn’t make it true.
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The same applies to us in regard to Muhammad and Islam.

Vickie
 
Sister_Amy said:
Abraham was a Muslim, and his sons, and his grandson and then the tribes of Israel. Moses was. Jesus was, and so were his followers. (3:52.) 🙂

Being Jewish or Christian doesn’t preclude one from being Muslim. However, as you refuse to accept some of God’s Messengers and Scriptures, that does take you out of Islam.
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Mohammed could not have been a prophet from the same God.

There are many many reasons, one that I would like to highlight is the commandment to convert people to islam by fighting them.

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Nowhere in judaism is a prophet commanded to fight a population to spread judaism.

Thus the deities of islam and judaism are different.
 
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