Muslims - Prove that islam existed before muhammad..

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algebra said:
a good point, what crime was jesus accused of?
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He claimed to be the Messiah (actually others claimed that of him; his response to Pilot was “Who do you think I am?”). I think that was what offended the Jewish Sanhedrin.
 
dzheremi said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

…

Excuse me.

Planten, I am a Linguist! What on earth makes you think that you can make such claims, ESPECIALLY to someone who studies language for a living? Firstly, NO, Arabic is not the oldest language, nor the mother of all other languages. That is just plain false. I have never met anyone who has claimed such a thing, Arab or Muslim or otherwise. It is DEMONSTRATABLY false with basically no research needed. Please see this page for an answer written by a linguist. I agree with the opinion expressed therein: there is no way to definitively know what the “first” language was. In another source that I quoted in the reply that is above you, the date given for the first inscriptions in Arabic is c.5th century BC. This figure is from the Oxford Concise Dictionary of Linguistics (Oxford Univ. Press, 1997) by P.H. Matthews (yes, I do actually look things up in reliable books before I post them; you should try it sometime!). In this same dictionary, on the same page as the entry for Arabic, under the entry for Aramaic, we see that Aramaic is attested to from the 10th century BC onwards. Hopefully this closes the issue for you, but if it doesn’t I can provide other resources that address the earliest attested language, Akkadian, which is also definitely older than Arabic.

Secondly, NO, German, French, etc. cannot be “traced back” to Arabic. Any particular cognates that you can come up with do not establish a genetic relationship between unrelated languages. If that were the case, then Spanish would be genetically related to Arabic, as there are many, many words in it that are ultimately derived from Arabic or from Persian via Arabic (~20%). But this is not the case. Spanish, French, and German are all Indo-European languages, related to each other (though Spanish and French are Romance languages,while German is Germanic) but not to Arabic, which is Afro-Asiatic (the name for the family of languages that includes the Semitic languages like Arabic, Amharic, Tigrinya, Maltese, etc.)

“Islam” does not mean “peace”; “Salaam” means “peace”. I have posted about this at least half a dozen times by now. I suspect you already know that this is the case and are just repeating it because you don’t expect me to know what I’m talking about. I’m taking Arabic classes, by the way, so you might not want to spend too much time providing me with false translations that I can easily debunk by looking in my dictionary, textbook, or asking any one of the 250+ Arabs that I see every single day while on my way to said Arabic classes, all of whom apparently know Arabic much better than you do.

I don’t like lies, Planten. That’s what you tell, and I don’t like it, and I won’t stand for it.

The word for “peace” in Aramaic is either “shlama” or “shlomo”, depending on dialect. Jesus spoke Aramaic, so we can assume that he would have used one of those words, which is a cognate for the Arabic “Salaam”. Again, I don’t see your point. Aramaic (and, of course, the modern Assyrian languages/dialects, usually refered to in literature as “Neo-Aramaic”) is a Semitic language, and indeed of older vintage than Arabic, so of course the words in it are related to the Arabic forms which developed from the same proto-Semitic forms.

What is your point, exactly? I don’t recall anyone debating Islam’s universiality in this thread. Obviously there are Muslims among virtually every people on Earth.
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(Yay) 🙂
 
I see nothing much has changed since yesterday.

Muslims: Everyone is Muslim if they submit to God.

Christians: No, that’s not true.

That would make satan muslim. I am not saying he is, I’m just using the same criteria muslims are on this thread. Your religion is more about submission than anything else. You submitting to the “Prophet (pbuh --or whatever)” Your women submitting to your men. Non-muslims being terrorized into submission. Christianity is not so much about submission, rather it is more about surrender. There is a subtle difference: Submission implies “compliance” where surrender implies “acceptance”. In complying you reserve the option to regain control. In surrender you give up that option and accept that you are not and never will be in control. And because you do it willingly, you have salvation. THAT is why we CAN and DO accept the Mysteries of faith, such as Jesus’ death and resurrection and that my dear muslims is why you do not. You are reserving the option to create reality in your own mind if the one you are presented with does not make sense to you.

YOU ARE SUBMITTING TO GOD BUT NOT SURRENDERING. Sorry, but that is the biggest difference between Islam and Christianity and particularly catholicism.

We have a basic belief in Christianity: satan BELIEVES in God. satan BELIEVES Jesus died for our sins. It takes much more than mere belief to be Christian. satan submits to God. satan has no power over God, only over us if we let him. It takes much more than submission to God to be Christian. We must baptize ourselves in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and continue from that moment forward to surrender ourselves to the power of the Holy Spirit by doing His will even when it doesn’t make sense. We don’t submit to prophets or worship them by reciting little prayers after we call them to mind. We look at them as being messengers and saints, not Gods. Jesus is God. It takes surrender to believe that. It takes a Christian.

Without the “knowledge” of Jesus as your savior, you don’t have Christianity.

Muslim belief that everyone is muslim: debunked

Peace Be With You

HC
 
Ah, dolphinlove and GodIsGracious! You are still here fighting the good fight 😃

Peace Be With You today my friends! :hug1:

HC
 
happilycatholic said:
Ah, dolphinlove and GodIsGracious! You are still here fighting the good fight 😃

Peace Be With You today my friends! :hug1:

HC
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Ahh thank you sweetheart :grouphug:

But others have been doing better than me, ive resorted to sarcasm a little to much lately and not enough factual information, i guess my patience needs a bit of a spiritual lifting from the Holy Spirit.
 
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