Muslims - Prove that islam existed before muhammad..

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God created men and jinn also with free will, the choice to obey or disobey. Even Christians believe God created Satan, don’t they?
God created satan as a beautiful angel like the rest. And like the rest, God gave them free will. They disobeyed and they were cast out.

The same as God created us with free will. We are sinners, but God doesn’t create sinners, he creates souls that choose to be what they will.
 
The Truth and the Word had not been revealed to Abraham. Did you submit to Islam before it was presented to you?
The Truth and the Word have always existed. Abraham submitted to the portion of the Truth and the Word that was revealed to him.
 
Jews called themselves Jews, and Catholics call themselves Catholics, don’t they?

God calls Muslims Muslims.

Islam is an Arabic word, though, and not an English one. Is it the word moreso than the concept that bothers you?
Where does God call anyone a Muslim?
 
Please explain.
The Son has always existed, Abraham was promised that he would know all in the fullness of revelation.

He was in the waiting place of the dead - outside of time.

Jesus goes down to sheol, and from there led the faithful to His kingdom.

Hence all people will know the Son.
 
What you said at first is true–the worship of God has not changed since He put Adam on the earth. The Only God. The One and Only God. And Adam never prayed to Jesus, Adam never worshiped Jesus, nor did any other of God’s prophets.

The prophets were praying to Jesus too because Jesus and God are one, Just like the Jews of today are praying to Jesus because Jesus is part of the Trinity.
 
There has been talk…again… that muslims believe that Abraham was a muslim.
This also brings up another point, how did islam exist before muhammad made it up?
Please explain this…
It didn’t!!! I studied the Karan or Quran Whatever!!! It is made up of some Old Testement Scriptures, Twistwed New Testement Scriptures and a bunch non sence. They do have Jesus birth, but in the Koran He was born under a palm tree and spoke at birth. The whole thing is Just weird. People that fall for false religions literally let common sence fall out the window and refuse to listen to the Holy Spirit. The only thing that would ever make parts of the Karan any good is the parts of the Bible they took from us. I think many times we forgot about 911
 
The Truth and the Word have always existed. Abraham submitted to the portion of the Truth and the Word that was revealed to him.
Of course, but since Islam doesn’t go for the whole Trinity thing, this would not make a difference. Not that anything does. :o
 
What you said at first is true–the worship of God has not changed since He put Adam on the earth. The Only God. The One and Only God. And Adam never prayed to Jesus, Adam never worshiped Jesus, nor did any other of God’s prophets.

Now, I don’t worship God with limitations. The person who worships a God who died, that person is worshiping a God with limitations.

Also, please be careful about what I said: because I never said God cannot I said God never dies. Not cannot, but does not. God does require total surrender, to Him, just like you said. That’s what Islam is, by the way–submission, surrender. Willingly giving up and obeying God. But it doesn’t make sense to submit to a human being, who has physical needs like food and sleep, when there is the Almighty who has no need of either.

Christians worship Jesus, who they claim died, and was resurrected.

But I worship the Almighty who doesn’t die, and who can resurrect all of mankind even after their bodies have decomposed–who brings the spring from the winter, and who created everyone and everything in the first place! That is Who I worship.
The prophets were praying to Jesus too because Jesus and God are one, Just like the Jews of today are praying to Jesus because Jesus is part of the Trinity.
 
Then you don’t believe that God made man in His image?
You’re telling me you think that you look like God?
Even God says we are synonymous with Him in that way so why would He not present Himself as one of us?
So not only is Jesus equal to God in your belief, but you are also? Lots of gods in Christianity, who knew?
Are you saying that God is ashamed of what He created?
No. What makes you think that?
Jesus never once sinned Sister Amy, so he was pure beyond pure as we know it. So he was for a time, the perfect Man.
So?
Exactly the reason He will not know you. He may not know me either, I am not casting stones. But He will definitely cast aside those who cast Him aside.
Matthew 7:21 is my response to you. Some people will say they are acting for Jesus and calling him ‘Lord’ and all, but unless they are doing the will of “the Father in heaven” then Jesus will say he does not know them. Since God’s will is that we worship Him ALONE, I think that is the reason why he’ll say he won’t know you.
No, you as a Muslim are the one that believes in only “part” of the Trinity. We believe in God as a divine whole. Beginning and end and everything inbetween.
Rather, you believe in God and then you ascribed partners to God. I believe in God and worship Him exclusively. Rather like Jesus did.
I didn’t say the Bible is all I base my faith on. Saying that catholics believe in only the prophets mentioned in Scripture is an inclusive statement, not an exclusive one. Cheap trick.
Yeah it was pretty cheap, guess I couldn’t resist. When I was looking up the verse I mentioned before, I happened to come across the passage Jesus uses to speak about “false prophets.” The very fact he mentions this implies that there will be prophets after him, and not all will be false, or he would have called them all false. That means there are prophets for you to believe in that are not in your scriptures.
It’s not amazing when that many people want to believe it. Christianity on the otherhand was hard-won for Christ. He had to do it without violence and in the end He had to die.
Christ’s message was for how many years? I.e., how many years was he preaching? About three, right? So let me tell you that the Muslims were persecuted fiercely for 13 years, tortured. And they weren’t allowed to fight back. For 13 years! Which is quite a bit longer than the 3 years that Jesus preached (even though Jesus did get violent at least once we know of, with the money changers.) And to say he had to die? Everyone dies. But actually… and this is ironic… Jesus didn’t. 🙂
No there was one other. Lazaras, reserrected by…wait for it…JESUS! Yay! Jesus!
About as much as Moses split the Red Sea. It was done by the power of God.

This is so beautiful, I had to quote the passage:

*38Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone laid across the entrance. “Take away the stone,” he said.
“But, Lord,” said Martha, the sister of the dead man, “by this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days.”

Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?

41So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”

43When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.
Jesus said to them, “Take off the grave clothes and let him go.”*

The glory of God! And why did he pray, just then?

Anyway, if Lazarus was resurrected, why do Christians only make a fuss about Jesus being resurrected as if it shows some impossibility? Hm. God already proved He could do that so… what’s the big deal? Doesn’t seem like a good reason to worship a human to me.
 
The prophets were praying to Jesus too because Jesus and God are one, Just like the Jews of today are praying to Jesus because Jesus is part of the Trinity.
But they don’t/didn’t believe in the trinity.
 
It didn’t!!! I studied the Karan or Quran Whatever!!! It is made up of some Old Testement Scriptures, Twistwed New Testement Scriptures and a bunch non sence. They do have Jesus birth, but in the Koran He was born under a palm tree and spoke at birth. The whole thing is Just weird. People that fall for false religions literally let common sence fall out the window and refuse to listen to the Holy Spirit. The only thing that would ever make parts of the Karan any good is the parts of the Bible they took from us. I think many times we forgot about 911
Hello denwiles!

Welcome, put on your armour, we’re fighting for God!!! 😃 (and wear your cowboy hat too cause it’s cute)

HC
 
A timely reminder from the Qur’an:

Al-Qur’an, 003.065-069
O People of the Scripture! Why will ye argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Have ye then no sense?
Lo! ye are those who argue about that whereof ye have some knowledge: Why then argue ye concerning that whereof ye have no knowledge? Allah knoweth. Ye know not.
Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
Lo! those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protecting Guardian of the believers.
A party of the People of the Scripture long to make you go astray; and they make none to go astray except themselves, but they perceive not.


The Qur’an is absolutely right of course i.e. those who argue about these matters have no knowledge whatsoever about them and they really are basing their arguments on nothing but conjecture.

At the time of the divine revelation to Prophet Moses (pbuh), how on earth can anyone then except God Himself know for certain what really happened at the time of Prophet Abraham (pbuh)?

The above passage of the Qur’an is most certainly explaining that Abraham (pbuh) was a Muslim i.e. someone who submits to the will of the Lord.

For those who are insisting that Abraham (pbuh) was a Jew, can you kindly point to the passage of the Bible which says this?
 
It didn’t!!! I studied the Karan or Quran Whatever!!! It is made up of some Old Testement Scriptures, Twistwed New Testement Scriptures and a bunch non sence. They do have Jesus birth, but in the Koran He was born under a palm tree and spoke at birth. The whole thing is Just weird. People that fall for false religions literally let common sence fall out the window and refuse to listen to the Holy Spirit. The only thing that would ever make parts of the Karan any good is the parts of the Bible they took from us. I think many times we forgot about 911
Yeah you studied the Karan alright.
 
A timely reminder from the Qur’an:

Al-Qur’an, 003.065-069
O People of the Scripture! Why will ye argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Have ye then no sense?
Lo! ye are those who argue about that whereof ye have some knowledge: Why then argue ye concerning that whereof ye have no knowledge? Allah knoweth. Ye know not.
Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
Lo! those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protecting Guardian of the believers.
A party of the People of the Scripture long to make you go astray; and they make none to go astray except themselves, but they perceive not.


The Qur’an is absolutely right of course i.e. those who argue about these matters have no knowledge whatsoever about them and they really are basing their arguments on nothing but conjecture.

At the time of the divine revelation to Prophet Moses (pbuh), how on earth can anyone then except God Himself know for certain what really happened at the time of Prophet Abraham (pbuh)?

The above passage of the Qur’an is most certainly explaining that Abraham (pbuh) was a Muslim i.e. someone who submits to the will of the Lord.

For those who are saying that Abraham (pbuh) was a Jew, can you kindly point to the passage of the Bible which says this?
jak for the reminder.
 
You’re telling me you think that you look like God?

**Well, since God is not earthly, I’m not sure what that means. I won’t know until I see Him in Heaven. I never said I look like God. Another leap. **

So not only is Jesus equal to God in your belief, but you are also? Lots of gods in Christianity, who knew?

**Leap. Leap. Leap. **

No. What makes you think that?

So?

Matthew 7:21 is my response to you. Some people will say they are acting for Jesus and calling him ‘Lord’ and all, but unless they are doing the will of “the Father in heaven” then Jesus will say he does not know them. Since God’s will is that we worship Him ALONE, I think that is the reason why he’ll say he won’t know you.

You are the one that separates Jesus and God, not me. I do worship God alone.

Rather, you believe in God and then you ascribed partners to God. I believe in God and worship Him exclusively. Rather like Jesus did.

Partners? Leap. Leap. Leap.

Yeah it was pretty cheap, guess I couldn’t resist. When I was looking up the verse I mentioned before, I happened to come across the passage Jesus uses to speak about “false prophets.” The very fact he mentions this implies that there will be prophets after him, and not all will be false, or he would have called them all false. That means there are prophets for you to believe in that are not in your scriptures.

That verse in no way incinuates that there will be other prophets. The verse means that there will be prophets that are false. Leap. Leap. Leap.

Christ’s message was for how many years? I.e., how many years was he preaching? About three, right? So let me tell you that the Muslims were persecuted fiercely for 13 years, tortured. And they weren’t allowed to fight back. For 13 years! Which is quite a bit longer than the 3 years that Jesus preached (even though Jesus did get violent at least once we know of, with the money changers. and that’s like the violence of today how?) And to say he had to die? Everyone dies. But actually… and this is ironic… Jesus didn’t. 🙂

That is the interpretation of your false prophet. That is EXACTLY what Jesus was warning about. Lies.

About as much as Moses split the Red Sea. It was done by the power of God.

Jesus IS God.

This is so beautiful, I had to quote the passage:

38Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone laid across the entrance. “Take away the stone,” he said.
“But, Lord,” said Martha, the sister of the dead man, “by this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days.”

Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?
"

41So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me."

43When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.
Jesus said to them, “Take off the grave clothes and let him go.”


The glory of God! And why did he pray, just then?

For the same reason we do.

Anyway, if Lazarus was resurrected, why do Christians only make a fuss about Jesus being resurrected as if it shows some impossibility?

**Because Lazarus’ reserrection and Christ’s reserrection came by the same Holy Spirit. Jesus said all things were possible through God. **

Hm. God already proved He could do that so… what’s the big deal? Doesn’t seem like a good reason to worship a human to me.
** He also said there is no way to the Father except through the Son. Because of Christ’s sacrafice of Himself, we can go unto the Father.**
 
I’m sorry, where was it again that God called his people Muslims?
 
A timely reminder from the Qur’an:

Al-Qur’an, 003.065-069
O People of the Scripture! Why will ye argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Have ye then no sense?
Lo! ye are those who argue about that whereof ye have some knowledge: Why then argue ye concerning that whereof ye have no knowledge? Allah knoweth. Ye know not.
Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
Lo! those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protecting Guardian of the believers.
A party of the People of the Scripture long to make you go astray; and they make none to go astray except themselves, but they perceive not.


The Qur’an is absolutely right of course i.e. those who argue about these matters have no knowledge whatsoever about them and they really are basing their arguments on nothing but conjecture.

At the time of the divine revelation to Prophet Moses (pbuh), how on earth can anyone then except God Himself know for certain what really happened at the time of Prophet Abraham (pbuh)?

The above passage of the Qur’an is most certainly explaining that Abraham (pbuh) was a Muslim i.e. someone who submits to the will of the Lord.

For those who are insisting that Abraham (pbuh) was a Jew, can you kindly point to the passage of the Bible which says this?
Oh people of the false book called the quran…
We do not believe in your scriptures, get a grip!
Now prove islam existed before muhammad…
 
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