Muslims - Prove that islam existed before muhammad..

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Muslim…
Prove that islam existed before muhammad, whats so hard about that…
about 70% of this thread is attributed to other subjects your changing too!!
Elwill defined Muslim (in bold no less) and provided the Islamic answer to this question for you on post#2. If you were really interested in how Muslims answer this question, then that would have been the end of it. After that its all been footnotes and tangents.
 
Elwill defined Muslim (in bold no less) and provided the Islamic answer to this question for you on post#2. If you were really interested in how Muslims answer this question, then that would have been the end of it. After that its all been footnotes and tangents.
Elwill quoted the quran, i do not believe in the quran, therefore i do not accept this explanation
 
It’s actually not a significant distinction, especially if you consider the context of Muslims fighting.
They weren’t fighting to “spread Islam” until the very end, and even at the end it wasn’t to force people to accept Islam but to prevent them from oppressing Muslims. Fighting for freedom of religion.
I guess we will have disagree on this point.
Jews wouldn’t have needed to do that since their prophets were only sent to Jews (Muhammad was sent to all of mankind.) Moreover, Jews were supposed to be living with Jews rather than being oppressed in other countries. Islam is different in that way, in that it’s universal, for everyone.
The way God commands the Jews to fight and the Muslims to fight is so so so similar, with the sole exception being that the Muslims are to show more mercy.
Jews were never commanded to fight to spread the religion. Converts were expected to come from people who were moved by the HS of God to accept God and His laws.
 
Elwill defined Muslim (in bold no less) and provided the Islamic answer to this question for you on post#2. If you were really interested in how Muslims answer this question, then that would have been the end of it. After that its all been footnotes and tangents.
Precisely.
 
I didn’t claim you were Muslim. I claimed that if you submit to God, you are Muslim. You are the one who insisted that you do submit to God. This claim on the part of Catholics is questionable for reasons that both SisterAmy and I have already mentioned, but God knows your heart.

With Abraham (pbuh) though, I feel on safer ground, and we clearly identify with the faith of Abraham.

As for anyone who was killed for the sole reason of not converting to Islam, or because they were not Muslim, this would obviously be wrong in any case. But you also knew that already.
Then even Muslims can’t be Muslims because you don’t submit to Jesus and He is God. According to that definition we are more Muslim than you are. :eek:
 
Now we’re getting somewhere. Correct! 👍 I don’t believe that the flawed nature of humanity would ever be synonymous with the divine nature of God.
So you believe that God created a flawed creation? that God is the source of sin?
 
this is your reply??? :rolleyes:
next
You’re not being fair.

You’re asking people to prove something when you don’t even agree on what the something is.

So please, dear one, tell us all what Islam is in the first place.
 
So please, dear one, tell us all what Islam is in the first place.
Islam is what is “revealed” in the quran and the sunnah.

The quran reveals that Abraham was a muslim.

Hence the religion that Abraham practiced according to islam was islam.

Which in the strictest sense is exactly what the muslims have been saying.

Worship 1 God.

I reject the notion that one has to obey all the prophets - muslims obviously do not obey all the prophets.
 
So you believe that God created a flawed creation? that God is the source of sin?
God created men and jinn also with free will, the choice to obey or disobey. Even Christians believe God created Satan, don’t they?
 
God created men and jinn also with free will, the choice to obey or disobey. Even Christians believe God created Satan, don’t they?
Satan is the great accuser. Not the source of evil per se.

Evil itself is not really a “thing” so much as a lack of another thing - “goodness” or Godliness
 
You’re not being fair.

You’re asking people to prove something when you don’t even agree on what the something is.

So please, dear one, tell us all what Islam is in the first place.
well if islam is from God, surely he would have not allowed Jews to be called Jews and Catholics called Catholics etc, islam would have been from the word go wouldnt it?

Now prove the existance of islam and its beliefs existed before and aroudn the time of Abraham…
 
well if islam is from God, surely he would have not allowed Jews to be called Jews and Catholics called Catholics etc, islam would have been from the word go wouldnt it?

Now prove the existance of islam and its beliefs existed before and aroudn the time of Abraham…
No islam is an arabic word, a language that did not exist at that time.

However the idea of submission has existed since Adam.

Hence islam has always existed.
**
Submission to prophets has never been part of islam**

However this is an article of faith for todays muslims.
 
Now we’re getting somewhere. Correct! 👍 I don’t believe that the flawed nature of humanity would ever be synonymous with the divine nature of God.

**Then you don’t believe that God made man in His image? Wow. Even God says we are synonymous with Him in that way (**EDIT: … not as sinners, but in His image) so why would He not present Himself as one of us? Are you saying that God is ashamed of what He created? Jesus never once sinned Sister Amy, so he was pure beyond pure as we know it. So he was for a time, the perfect Man. **

Actually I believe that Jesus is not a god at all.

Exactly the reason He will not know you. He may not know me either, I am not casting stones. But He will definitely cast aside those who cast Him aside. 😦

I would say that Islam knows God as taught by Jesus, taught by Muhammad, taught by all the prophets and messengers, and that Christians partially know God but there is some falsehood in their beliefs.

No, you as a Muslim are the one that believes in only “part” of the Trinity. We believe in God as a divine whole. Beginning and end and everything inbetween.

Then I guess you’d better hope the Bible is really from God since that’s all you’re basing your faith on.

I didn’t say the Bible is all I base my faith on. Saying that catholics believe in only the prophets mentioned in Scripture is an inclusive statement, not an exclusive one. Cheap trick.

It’s so amazing to think that one man in the middle of the desert could “create” and “define” a faith that today accounts for the beliefs of at least one in five people.

It’s not amazing when that many people want to believe it. Christianity on the otherhand was hard-won for Christ. He had to do it without violence and in the end He had to die.

Not one of those three statements is false. Christians worship Jesus, yes? They say he died, yes? And they say he was resurrected, yes?

Really? Are you under the impression that Jesus is the only person to ever have been resurrected (according to your belief?)
No there was one other. Lazaras, reserrected by…wait for it…JESUS! Yay! Jesus!
 
well if islam is from God, surely he would have not allowed Jews to be called Jews and Catholics called Catholics etc, islam would have been from the word go wouldnt it?

Now prove the existance of islam and its beliefs existed before and aroudn the time of Abraham…
Jews called themselves Jews, and Catholics call themselves Catholics, don’t they?

God calls Muslims Muslims.

Islam is an Arabic word, though, and not an English one. Is it the word moreso than the concept that bothers you?
 
No islam is an arabic word, a language that did not exist at that time.

However the idea of submission has existed since Adam.

Hence islam has always existed.
**
Submission to prophets has never been part of islam**

However this is an article of faith for todays muslims.
Eh? No. The article of faith is belief in prophets.
 
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