Muslims, same or different God

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hamba2han said:
Suppose there were three ancient tribes of Sun-worshipers, even though they may have lived in different time periods and locations and they called the Sun by different names and they practiced worship rituals which were markedly different from one another, nevertheless they would still be worshiping the same Sun.

Muslims worship the One Lord and Creator of the Universe and all that exists within it.

Unless Christians and Jews believe that there is more than one physical Universe, then we worship the same Lord.
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God was revealed to Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. He came in human form in Jesus Christ. He exists as the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. There is no other name by which men can be saved. If you believe that, we worship the same God, if not, we do not.
 
kalt said:
Thank you!! I thought I was almost alone on this.

What does Islam say about the OT and the NT?
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Islam teaches that parts of the OT and NT do indeed contain profound truths.

However, other parts have unfortunately been added, altered and edited by both known and unknown hands through the course of history.

One of the functions of the Qur’an is to act as the Furqan i.e. the Criterion to distinguish between truth and falsehood found in earlier scriptures.
 
kalt said:
That Muhammed wasn’t a prophet is irrelevant, really. The truth is that Muslims worship God. If you think they don’t, then you must think that there was some other god talking to Muhammed.

God wasn’t talking to Muhammed and Muhammed didn’t claim to be creating a new god. So what god do they worship?

We’ll have to agree to disagree.
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It is not relevant if a person claims divine revelation from Gabriel and is not a prophet?
 
hamba2han said:
Islam teaches that parts of the OT and NT do indeed contain profound truths.

However, other parts have unfortunately been added, altered and edited by both known and unknown hands through the course of history.

One of the functions of the Qur’an is to act as the Furqan i.e. the Criterion to distinguish between truth and falsehoods found in earlier scriptures.
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Your revelation corrects prior revelation?
 
Rightlydivide said:
I do not think that most Christians believe that Allah and God are the same so I am not creating anything. As far as “protecting myself”, I will bow out on the first attempt to bring personalities into this. I do not enjoy doing that. Takes a very good conversation and makes it emotionally based. Your “motive is bad or good” is just not needed. People do that because it is the internet I believe.

Since this seems to be the last post, I will repeat that what we know about Allah comes from Muhammad. He is the prophet.

Here is an example.

If I told you that Steven Reynolds of God is Alive and his name is Steven Reynolds Assembly told me yesterday that he worships the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob (I am not sure if that is an important distinction) and that God wants teenage boys to cut a finger off and poo in a circle in the backyard because the angel Gabriel told him in a series of messages, I suspect you would have a hard time believing that we worship the same God.
In talking to my neighbor Frank about it, Frank could say “Man that God that Steven worships is WAY out there”. If I said, “NO, its the same God”. Frank would be very confused. As he should be.
Have a good day.
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I didn’t say that your motive was “bad”. It’s merely human nature. I am well-aware that many Christians don’t agree with the CC that Muslims worship the same god. But those Chrisitans disagree with the CC on many things. If numbers counted, the first Christians (Jews) would have been wrong–most of Judaism disagreed with them.

I won’t continure with the debate, since we’ll only go in circles. I couldn’t make sense of the last paragraph’s first line, and talking about teen boys crapping in a circle is just too bizzare to bother with. :eek:
 
Rightlydivide said:
God was revealed to Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. He came in human form in Jesus Christ. He exists as the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. There is no other name by which men can be saved. If you believe that, we worship the same God, if not, we do not.
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So Jews, who don’t believe that, don’t worship the same god.

You really do contradict yourself, and try to say you don’t by making exceptions to your rule.
 
Rightlydivide said:
It is not relevant if a person claims divine revelation from Gabriel and is not a prophet?
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It’s only relevant if you believe either that God was speaking to him or that some other god was speaking to him. If you believe that no god was speaking to him, Muslims worship the God of Abraham. If you believe that God was speaking to him, they worship the God of Abraham. If you believe that some other god was speaking to him, you aren’t a Christian, because Christians believe that there is only one god.
 
kalt said:
I didn’t say that your motive was “bad”. It’s merely human nature. I am well-aware that many Christians don’t agree with the CC that Muslims worship the same god. But those Chrisitans disagree with the CC on many things. If numbers counted, the first Christians (Jews) would have been wrong–most of Judaism disagreed with them.

I won’t continure with the debate, since we’ll only go in circles. I couldn’t make sense of the last paragraph’s first line, and talking about teen boys crapping in a circle is just too bizzare to bother with. :eek:
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Too bizzare? Really? As long as you mean they worship the God of Abraham…
 
hamba2han said:
Islam teaches that parts of the OT and NT do indeed contain profound truths.

However, other parts have unfortunately been added, altered and edited by both known and unknown hands through the course of history.

One of the functions of the Qur’an is to act as the Furqan i.e. the Criterion to distinguish between truth and falsehood found in earlier scriptures.
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What are the earliest texts they use to compare? Can you give examples of changes?
 
kalt said:
It’s only relevant if you believe either that God was speaking to him or that some other god was speaking to him. If you believe that no god was speaking to him, Muslims worship the God of Abraham. If you believe that God was speaking to him, they worship the God of Abraham. If you believe that some other god was speaking to him, you aren’t a Christian, because Christians believe that there is only one god.
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So if no God was speaking to Muhammad, but he claimed that he was receiving a message from Gabriel, then they worship the God of Abraham. That is what you said but I added the addtional sentence to be concise.

Do other entities that are evil speak to people? Is that a third option?
 
kalt said:
The CC affirms that Muslims worship the same god that Jews and Christians worship.
Do you agree with this?
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I absolutely agree with the CC on this. It is very clear in stating that monotheistic religions have a path of salvation.
 
kalt said:
They say that their revelation corrects changes (and errors, I think?) that crept into the OT and NT.

You are making another strawman argument here.
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The OT and NT are revelation. They are synonymous terms.
So when I say your revelation (Koran) corrects prior revelation (OT and NT), what is wrong about that? They are synonyms.

Corrects what? Changes and errors according to their perspective. Divine revelation according to us.
 
Rightlydivide said:
So if no God was speaking to Muhammad, but he claimed that he was receiving a message from Gabriel, then they worship the God of Abraham. That is what you said but I added the addtional sentence to be concise.

Do other entities that are evil speak to people? Is that a third option?
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Luther saw things floating in his room, and even threw objects at them. Is he a Christian? Though he, without authority, added to the Bible? And then took books out, because he wanted to change doctrine. And he’s still a Christian?!

You say that they don’t worship the same god because they changed scripture and aded to it, well didn’t Luther do exactly that, and most of non-Catholic Christianity uses that same truncated Bible to this day!!!

You have separate standards going here.

You either have to say that Muslims worship the God of Abraham, because the OT and NT is where their religion comes from, or you believe that some other god was talking to Muhammed and in a very odd move for a god, one would think, stole another god’s story.

I don’t think anyone, god or otherwise, was talking to Muhammed, just as I don’t think there were objects flying around Luther’s room. I think it’s clear that Luther was mentally ill. I don’t know enough about Muhammed to make a guess about his motive.
 
kalt said:
What are the earliest texts they use to compare? Can you give examples of changes?
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The Qur’an stands on it’s own and there are just too many examples of contradictions found in the Bible to list them all.

And you do not even need the Qur’an to tell you of some of these changes since Christian scholars themselves have found various interpolations in the Bible over the years.
 
Did the Angel Gabriel speak to Abraham?

No, God spoke to Abraham, Gabriel did not speak to Abraham.
 
hamba2han said:
The Qur’an stands on it’s own and there are just too many examples of contradictions found in the Bible to list them all.

And you do not even need the Qur’an to tell you of some of these changes since Christian scholars themselves have found various interpolations in the Bible over the years.
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Since they linked, I hope I can. Don’t warn me! I have been good lately! Found this on a google search and cannot vouch for everything in it yet.
answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

Have to go.
 
hamba2han said:
The Qur’an stands on it’s own and there are just too many examples of contradictions found in the Bible to list them all.

And you do not even need the Qur’an to tell you of some of these changes since Christian scholars themselves have found various interpolations in the Bible over the years.
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I didn’t mean compare the Koran to the OT and NT, I meant compare the texts of the OT to the OT, to see where changes or errors were made, and the same for the NT.
 
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