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amcalabrese
Guest
This is rediculous. He cited a 600 year old dialogue. Ultimately, his homily was that (i) there should be no compulsion in religion and (ii) faith must also incorporate reason.
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FightingFat
Guest
So my children and their children don’t grow up to display the level of ignorance being displayed here.
Why did JPII feel it was necessary?
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EsclavoDeCristo
Guest
Here goes post 1,000:
Does anyone know where I can find the pope’s speech? I have seen plenty of commentaries but I would like to get his own words as they were presented in Germany.
Thanks!
Does anyone know where I can find the pope’s speech? I have seen plenty of commentaries but I would like to get his own words as they were presented in Germany.
Thanks!
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gonzaga
Guest
He felt he could best tackle the mission of Holy Mother Church by spreading love, understanding and tolerance and he followed Vatican II on ecumenicism? Only my opinion.
What’s for sure though is that even as Cardinal Ratzinger, BXVI held a very different view of Islam than JPII.
I feel BXVI has a more realistic view of Islam. The truth is more important than offering love and ignoring essential and irreconcilable differences in dogma.
I don’t mean to cause offence but will your children grow to learn the doctrine and catechism of the Catholic Church by praying with Muslims?
Ask yourself, who does it profit for your young children (and I’m assuming here that they’re young and at an impressible age) to be taught that it’s good/holy/what Christ would have wanted for his disciples, to pray with the followers of a false prophet?
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Finex
Guest
The message he is sending is very, very clear.Violence in the name of faith is never acceptable in any religion and that the pope considers it his duty to challenge Islam and anyone else on this.
I say keep up the good work Holy father!
I say keep up the good work Holy father!
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Ahimsa
Guest
Here it is. Or maybe you want the German.
On the larger issue of B16’s reason for doing this, one could be charitable and suppose that B16 is making strategic jabs at the Islamic community’s failture to consistently repudiate religiously inspired violence (e.g., death to those who leave Islam), so that the Islamic community will take a real, hard, and honest look at itself and thus re-form and re-vision its interpretation of Qur’anic and Shariahic statements.
B16 is Islam’s friend in the West. If the Islamic communities pay attention, re-examine what’s going on in their communities, and re-incorporate the importance of “reason” (as was done in earlier Islamic periods), then we will all live to see another glorious age of Islamic civilization – complete with religious freedom, scientific progress, and economic wealth. What more could a Catholic ask for?
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lrs
Guest
Time and again we witness how powerful our thoughts, words, and deeds are. What was the intent of the Pope’s words. To denouce violence and evil worship?? To define all Muslims based on an exchange written hundreds of years ago. You will never convince any Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, to be a Christian if you make a blanket statement such as: your religous faith practices are based on ruling by sword. You will close their minds quickly and open their mouths. The response will be reactionary. We Christians have not always been so Peaceful and Non Violent. Please notice, I said Christians. We must examine ourselves first. The Greatest Commandment. Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, love your neighbor as yourself.
Our starting point should be: WE all worship God. One God. A loving God. Let’s go from there.
Blessings,
Lisa
Our starting point should be: WE all worship God. One God. A loving God. Let’s go from there.
Blessings,
Lisa
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jkatpc
Guest
Your opinion, but the most frequent users (read abusers) of the term are Islamists. While they claim that such a small percentage are violent, terroristic, murdering savages, the majority have, so far, done virtually nothing to stop them. You know those IEDs that are killing so many of my fellow servicemen? They are being made by Muslims in neighborhoods where other Muslims live. Do you believe the bomb makers are so secretive and stealthy that their neighbors have no idea? Of course they do. So, Islam is either a religion of fear (they fear retribution), or cowardice (non-Muslims being killed isn’t worth them taking a stand) or duplicity (condemn the terrorists publicly but support them in their hearts). But, of course, it is no religion of peace.
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kevb
Guest
Yes, and as someone in another post mentioned, while all the so called moderate muslims are coming out of the woodwork and expressing their outrage over the Pope’s statement and over those offensive cartoons months ago, they didn’t seem to offer any sort of opinion after the horrors of Sept. 11th! How could they not have taken offense as those terrorists, in the name of Islam murdered thousands of innocent people?! Their silence during those days only confirms their sympathy with terrorist ideology.
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FrCorey
Guest
He told them the truth about thier religion and they are not too happy about it. God Bless the Holy Father!
Quote:
Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.
Father Benedict said twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was "incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul.
Unquote:
Amen.
Quote:
Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.
Father Benedict said twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was "incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul.
Unquote:
Amen.
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Santa_Cruz
Guest
I wonder if this is going to be the issue that will result in the fulfillment of the prophecies of Fatima? God Bless the Pope.
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lrs
Guest
Be Careful!! Jihad Extremists and Muslims do not adhere to the same interpretation of the Koran. What if we had some radical “Christian” interpret the bible passage literally that states,“an eye for an eye, or tooth for a tooth” and act on it for either politcal or personal motivation and gain. Remember, we are talking about the Holy Land, one Muslims also claim for themselves, and what appears to them to be an intrusion of the West on their Land.
You close all open lines of communication when you base extremist ideology behavior on an entire Muslim faith community. DO 1.1 billion Catholics speak out against the genocide in Darfour?? What about that responsibility!
I recall that Pope John Paul II was fully about forgiveness, peace, tolerance, and traversed the world to promote this Biblical Ideology. May we remember!
Peace,
Lisa.
You close all open lines of communication when you base extremist ideology behavior on an entire Muslim faith community. DO 1.1 billion Catholics speak out against the genocide in Darfour?? What about that responsibility!
I recall that Pope John Paul II was fully about forgiveness, peace, tolerance, and traversed the world to promote this Biblical Ideology. May we remember!
Peace,
Lisa.
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MichaelTDoyle
Guest
I really would like some facts to back this up. The very evils being mentioned are not being condemned by mainstream moslems. What do mainstream moslims believe? Who are these mainstream muslims? The ones quiet in America? Because the ruling muslims throughout the middle east are for genocide and our destruction or outlaw Christianity outright.
Let me know when I can attend mass in Saudia Arabia–an entire country! Then I would be a little more convinced about any real difference between the two ideologies that the news and President Bush take so much effort in distinguishing.
This is a good time to pray the Rosary.
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Ahimsa
Guest
And along those lines, this blog:
The Pakistani parliament passed a resolution condemning the Pope’s remarks. (Since the Pakistani parliament has been fighting Muslim fundamentalists and trying to avoid implementing Islamic law, this was an easy way to stress their Muslim bonafides even as they pursue secular policies). Muslims in Jammu and Kashmir took time out from worrying about the Kashmir issue to protest the Pope. Likewise there were protests by Palestinians in Gaza.
The Vatican continues to decline to apologize, only saying that no offense was meant by the Pope’s remarks.
Some commentators have complained about Muslim sensibilities in this regard. But in my view, this sensitivity is a feature of postcolonialism. Muslims were colonized by Western powers, often for centuries, and all that period they were told that their religion was inferior and barbaric. They are independent now, though often they have gained independence only a couple of generations (less if you consider neocolonialism). As independent, they are finally liberated to protest when Westerners put them down.
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lrs
Guest
One of the reasons you can not attend Mass in Saudia Arabia is because they own us due to our dependence on their Oil-we are at their Mercy.They are not concerned with human rights, freedom of religion or speech. Is their motivation Oil Profit or furthering the Muslim Religious Beliefs! Educate ME! ( I must add, that I, myself, must not fall prey to generalizations and it is the Saudia Arabian Government, not the people)
If I recall correctly, 11 of 16 terrorists from 9/11 came out of Saudia Arabia, no reprocussions from us towards them. We went after the Talliban, then Saddam. It is all smoke and mirrors with this administration. An administration of opportunity politics.
But, that is not the subject here. Read this and you may understand a little better, knowledge is the power we seek:
Go to beliefnet.com
THis is a portion of the accurate news story:Muslim World Condemns Attacks on U.S.
Condemnation by the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), a group of 57 Muslim states
DUBAI, Sept 12, 2001 (IslamOnline & News Agencies)–The Muslim world expressed condemnation Wednesday towards the attacks that occurred Tuesday in the United States, news agencies reported.
The Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) grouping 57 Muslim states condemned Wednesday the previous day’s attacks on the United States, Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported.
“We condemn these savage and criminal acts which are anathema to all human conventions and values and the monotheist religions, led by Islam,” OIC secretary general Abdel Wahad Belkaziz said in a statement.
Renowned Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi encouraged Muslims to donate blood to the victims of the attacks and said that helping the victims with blood and money is considered a charity.
In a special interview with IslamOnline, al-Qaradawi said that any sane Muslim who abides by Islamic laws would have never caused the incident. He added that acts of terrorism are a crime regardless of the nationality or religious backgrounds of the victims.
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jkatpc
Guest
This is what we would do: we would marginalize them and put the full force of law to persecute them if they violated the law (an extreme example is the Davidian compound in Waco). The problem with Islam, especially in the Mid-East (I’ve been there many times) is that the religion is the law. Thank goodness for a secular legal system that does not punish based on what some religion deems appropriate.
Most would realize that violent Christianity is very uncommon and unacceptable to mainline or traditional Christians. When Rudolph went into hiding after bombing the abortion clinics (clearly a horrible act even as abortion is a horrible act), most if not all of the people who brought him to justice were Christian (just going by Southern demography). Does anybody seriously think that would be the case in a Muslim country?
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jkatpc
Guest
"DUBAI, Sept 12, 2001 (IslamOnline & News Agencies)–The Muslim world expressed condemnation Wednesday towards the attacks that occurred Tuesday in the United States, news agencies reported.
The Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) grouping 57 Muslim states condemned Wednesday the previous day’s attacks on the United States, Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported. "
Wonderful, but what have they done about it? Don’t forget about Al-Taqqiyeh, the Muslim principle that bending/breaking the truth with non-believers is not sinful. IMO, actions speak lounder than words, especially hollow words.
The Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) grouping 57 Muslim states condemned Wednesday the previous day’s attacks on the United States, Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported. "
Wonderful, but what have they done about it? Don’t forget about Al-Taqqiyeh, the Muslim principle that bending/breaking the truth with non-believers is not sinful. IMO, actions speak lounder than words, especially hollow words.
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lrs
Guest
Yes, as Christians we do accept that violence begets violence.I will not for a minute accept that Muslims do not value human life regardless of stated religion of others. Remember we are talking about Extremis
In this nation, do we practice fully our Christian values? What Jesus taught. Think about the fact that we have accepted as part of our law the Death Penalty here, eye for eye concept.
War is not OK!
Peace, Lis
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