Muslims, what exactly do you believe?

[planten]

I believe Kadaveri is comparing the Ahmadis to the Mormons is because you all have your own prophet which came after mohamad, just like the Mormons have their Joseph Smith as their prophet.

jakasaki, your post #39 is perfectly describing the state of affairs of different muslim sects. !00% true.

This post #40 is also giving some good reason for considering Ahmadis similar to Mormons because of having a new prophet. That could be a good point.

But I was talking about the similarity of Ahmadis with JW’s because of their hard study of scripture and some kind of good organisation. Otherwise, the Ahmadis cannot be a copy of the Mormons or the JW’s at all. I do not know how many JW’s are in the world today and how many Mormons. The Ahmadis claim to be more than 160 Million.

Going by the scale of Kadaveri, the Ahmadis could be more similar to the Baha’is. The Baha’is claim to have a new prophet type person called Bab and Bahaullah.

I liked the correct description of jakasaki. It should be like that, always, giving correct report.

 

[sedonaman]

planten speaks of love and peace. is islam not a religion of love and peace?

One thing we’ve learned from Muslims on this forum is that they use the same vocabulary but the words have different meanings.

 

[Vile_Servant]

The house of islam is divided. Sunny islam/muslims make the majority and then you have Shia islam/muslims.

Sunny don’t like the other muslim sects especially Shia

Shia don’t like the other muslim sects and Shia are also considered heretics by Sunni islam.

Ahmadi & other lower muslims sects are all considered as heretics by Sunni islam & other parts of islam

The Ahmadi, such as Planten have their own prophet who came about 200+ years ago way after after mohamad and their motto is “love for all, hatred for none”.

The above is how I understand the house of islam.

you are saying that planten is kafir?

 

[jakasaki]

you are saying that planten is kafir?

Not me!

I couldn’t care less what label Planten is under islam.

I know he is a muslim, practices islam and that **other sects of islam. especially the Sunni muslims do not care one bit about the Ahmadi muslims nor do they consider the Ahmadi as " true muslims". **

There are some Shia muslims who do love the Ahmadi muslims, but I haven’t heard of many.

They, the Ahmadi are persecuted and harassed in parts of the Middle East just like Christians are.

But I’ll tell you what I believe… you will never see an Ahmadi muslim sport a bomb vest and blow up themselves up in a crowded market or place.

 

[Kadaveri]

Interesting. That would mean that the House of Islam is divided? Are most Muslims a Ahmadi?

No. Ahmadis number about 5 million (out of 1.6 billion Muslims) and mostly reside in Pakistan. As compared to Christianity Islam is a relatively undivided religion, 90% are Sunni, 9% are Shi’a and 1% belong to heretical sects like the Ahmadis.

Dear Kadaveri,

In my past discusssioons with a muslim collegue, ( this is in regards to politics) He started abusing Indian army and Kashmir, saying they are killing his brothers. I was taken aback, and asked him if his family was a Kashmiri, and he said, no, but as muslims they are his brothers. I asked him if the muslims killing muslims in pakistan are not his brothers, and he had no answer for that.

Now you are calling planten a heratic, But i did not here such comments from any other muslim when he was defending Muslim faith for so long.

Wonder what makes ones brother an enemy.

have a nice day.

I don’t see the relevance of this anecdote. The conflict between India and Pakistan over Kashmir is a political dispute over territory, it has nothing to do with religion. The Muslims in Pakistan and India are both overwhelmingly Sunni.

Shia are also considered heretics by Sunni islam.

This statement is misleading within that context. The disagreements between Sunni and Shi’a are fundamentally about a political dispute, there are no significant theological differences between us like there are with Ahmadis. Mainstream Sunni institutions (like Al-Azhar) have ruled that although we don’t agree with Shi’a on a few issues, it’s not right to call them heretics.

planten speaks of love and peace. is islam not a religion of love and peace?

I don’t like vague questions like this.

 

[Vile_Servant]

I don’t like vague questions like this.

is it?

ok, let me rephrase the question.

Does Islam teach Muslims to be loving and peaceful people?

 

[jakasaki]

Originally Posted by jakasaki
Shia are also considered heretics by Sunni islam.

…

OK on your post somewhat - but there are not just “few issues”.

Sunni & Shia have been at it for decades and centuries. Yes, you all follow the sunna of mohamad, but I also know there is no love between the Sunni & Shia.

You all follow the same koran, but Sunni school have their own hadiths and Shia have their own. Sunni honor Abu Bakr while Shia honor Ali.

Shia believe that Aishia poisoned mohamad while Sunni claim it was a Jewess according to the hadiths.

You go to any islamic forum on the net where Sunni and Shia bash each other on a daily basis. Maybe to you they are not “heretics” but to many Sunni they are. All I know is what I read on the net.

 

[Kadaveri]

is it?

ok, let me rephrase the question.

Does Islam teach Muslims to be loving and peaceful people?

Islam teaches us to be merciful and to show kindness to others. It also teaches us to fight those who oppress others, Islam is not a pacifist religion.

All I know is what I read on the net.

That’s probably why you don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[jakasaki]

Islam teaches us to be merciful and to show kindness to others. It also teaches us to fight those who oppress others, Islam is not a pacifist religion.

That’s probably why you don’t know what you’re talking about.

What false information have I posted in #47?

 

[jakasaki]

Islam teaches us to be merciful and to show kindness to others.

can you show kindness to heretics such as the Ahmadi?

It also teaches us to fight those who oppress others, Islam is not a pacifist religion.

The Ahmadi are “oppressed” by sunni islam. Do you fight amongst yourselfs when you oppress Ahmadi?

 

[sedonaman]

…
That’s probably why you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I think you took his statement out of context.

 

[Kadaveri]

What false information have I posted in #47?

It reflects so limited an understanding that if you want to educate yourself you’d be better off forgetting everything and starting from the beginning again.

can you show kindness to heretics such as the Ahmadi?

Yes.

The Ahmadi are “oppressed” by sunni islam. Do you fight amongst yourselfs when you oppress Ahmadi?

I don’t understand the question. Who is the “you” and the “yourselfs” referring to?

 

[Steven_John]

planten speaks of love and peace. is islam not a religion of love and peace?

I think Sufi’s are pretty big on love

 

[Steven_John]

The house of islam is divided. Sunny islam/muslims make the majority and then you have Shia islam/muslims.

Sunny don’t like the other muslim sects especially Shia

Shia don’t like the other muslim sects and Shia are also considered heretics by Sunni islam.

Ahmadi & other lower muslims sects are all considered as heretics by Sunni islam & other parts of islam

The Ahmadi, such as Planten have their own prophet who came about 200+ years ago way after after mohamad and their motto is “love for all, hatred for none”.

The above is how I understand the house of islam.

What you say is true in many parts of the world.

Where i live the only mosque is Sunni and Shai’s pray and work at the mosque side by side in peace.

 

[planten]

OK on your post somewhat - but there are not just “few issues”.

Sunni & Shia have been at it for decades and centuries. Yes, you all follow the sunna of mohamad, but I also know there is no love between the Sunni & Shia.

You all follow the same koran, but Sunni school have their own hadiths and Shia have their own. Sunni honor Abu Bakr while Shia honor Ali.

Shia believe that Aishia poisoned mohamad while Sunni claim it was a Jewess according to the hadiths.

You go to any islamic forum on the net where Sunni and Shia bash each other on a daily basis. Maybe to you they are not “heretics” but to many Sunni they are. All I know is what I read on the net.

jakasaki, you are perfectly right in your post #47, except that i will have to amend one of your paragraphs to prove more useful to your point of enmity between the Sunnis and Shias. Please read as follows:

You all follow the same koran, but Sunni school have their own hadiths and Shia have their own. Sunni honor Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali, while Shia honor Ali. The Shias hate (abuse) Abubakr, Umar and Uthman. The Shias generally abuse the companions (Ashaab) of the prophet too.

These two factions of the Muslims can never unite. If they ever unite, they will unite on something bad, i.e. like opposing, abusing the Ahmadis. That is the Highest common factor (H.C.F.) amongst Sunnis and Shias.

There seems to be nothing in common between Sunnis and Shias. Perhaps the Kalimah (The very basic Kalimah) of the Shias may be different. But it is not so with the Ahmadis.

 

[planten]

I think Sufi’s are pretty big on love

That is right. The Sufis are pretty high in matters of Love. But the militant Muslims do not like the Sufis. They think the Sufis are also heretics.

 

[planten]

What you say is true in many parts of the world.

Where i live the only mosque is Sunni and Shai’s pray and work at the mosque side by side in peace.

Steven, please explain your post in some detail as to how the Sunnis and Shias pray in peace side by side. We need to know exactly what they do. Thanks. How the Shai’s pray and work at the mosque side by side in peace

Perhaps you gave them a peaceful unfying lesson of love.

 

[qwerk]

Considering all the Christians that are being killed recently and no outrage from any Muslims, Islam doesn’t seem that peaceful to me. Just recently they had a nasty celebration in India and they destroyed a lot of other people’s property. Video.

They celeberated Mohammad’s birthday by looting Kafir’s shops and burning Kafir’s Houses.

There have been a lot of Churches destroyed in a lot of different countries by Muslims. In Nigeria there were about 500 Christians killed by Muslims and they were just butchered.

There was an incident last month on UCIrvine where Muslims were just downright rude to a guest speaker and then on the UCBerkeley campus a Jewess was attacked. They are on campuses claiming that the Israelis are committing apartheid when it is the opposite case. Muslims demand others be subjugated and those Sharia laws give non-Muslims no legal rights.

In Sweden they are fleeing because of Muslims persecuting them.

It sounds like they are following their Sharia laws and waging Jihad, and trying to intimidate us.

The Catholics should be listening to the Muslims too because they are putting this sort of stuff on their state controlled TV and we all know how the Muslims here support Hamas: Hamas Sermon in Gaza on Al-Aqsa TV: Rome Will Be Conquered by Islam

The following are excerpts from a Friday sermon delivered in the Gaza Strip, which aired on Hamas’ Al-Aqsa TV on March 5, 2010 (to view this clip, visit memritv.org/clip/en/2410.htm).
This is followed by other MEMRI TV clips from Al-Aqsa TV on the coming Islamic ‘conquest of Rome’ (to view the MEMRI TV page for Al-Aqsa TV, visit memritv.org/content/en/tv_channel_indiv.htm?id=175).

 

[qwerk]

Then we got this sort of stuff coming to our lands, the child brides. Canada is having problems with this.

I used to wonder why there were no Muslims that were outraged by this. Oh maybe a few here and there and especially if they got cornered, but no real attempt to change things.

Then I bought their book on Sharia laws. It was an eye opener. Most of the stuff they tell us is not Islamic is really ok.

 

[planten]

qwerk, this is not the platform to discuss such things. If you have any question, you may ask us. But do not present adverse notes against islam here. The present day Muslims and christians are doing many bad things. So we should leave them alone. We should get on with something more useful, about religious beliefs, not about politics.