Muslims, what exactly do you believe?

[Art321]

Qwerk, the Op had asked the Muslims about their various beliefs. We are trying to tell our beliefs, even to our own disadavantage. It is none of your business to tell our beliefs. You please tell your beliefs, not those of Muslims. Or, you can ask a genuine decent question. We will reply and remove any misunderstanding.

You need not believe and become a Muslim if you do not feel like. But please stay calm and patient. You will be rewarded.
*
As far as I am concerned, this thread can continue for any decent questions that remain to be answered.*

Alright. Very well.

 

[qwerk]

Qwerk, the Op had asked the Muslims about their various beliefs. We are trying to tell our beliefs, even to our own disadavantage. It is none of your business to tell our beliefs. You please tell your beliefs, not those of Muslims. Or, you can ask a genuine decent question. We will reply and remove any misunderstanding.

You need not believe and become a Muslim if you do not feel like. But please stay calm and patient. You will be rewarded.

As far as I am concerned, this thread can continue for any decent questions that remain to be answered.

Intimidation if we don’t follow your rules?

 

[planten]

That is what is done to people who tell the truth about Islam. They are told they are bigots, Islamophobes, and other names. Name calling is very common in the Quran too. You know the pigs, apes, kufir, etc.

qwerk, I give you a recipe about name calling from your book (bibleNT). See a sample below: That is mathew chapter 23. Jesus is talking.

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside **you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. **

29"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees,** you hypocrites**! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

qwerk, what do you say about the above language?? I fully agree with those words of Jesus. But probably you have never read the bible.

 

[planten]

It is about Muslim beliefs. Can you be specific where it went astray? I am only covering what is in the Quran, Sharia laws that are based on the Quran, Sira, and Hadith, and explaining some things from these books.

The problem is that you want to hear all the goody goody stuff that the Muslims will tell you because of the holy deception called taqiyya. Sometimes things are not as pleasant as all that.

Do you want us to just tell you about the distorted Bible stories in the Quran or the verses that were abrogated?

qwerk, I had told you that the OP addressed the post to Muslims. Please read the words of the Thread. **Muslims, what exactly do you believe? **

Some one (Art321) is asking the Muslims about their exact beliefs. You are nobody to meddle in this affair. You are only spoiling the show and you are showing the bad face of your good religion.

 

[qwerk]

qwerk, I give you a recipe about name calling from your book (bibleNT). See a sample below: That is mathew chapter 23. Jesus is talking.

qwerk, what do you say about the above language?? I fully agree with those words of Jesus. But probably you have never read the bible.

Well, they were being hypocrites.

Here is the difference between what is a hypocrite in all other places except in Islam. When a Muslim doesn’t wage Jihad, or support Jihad, they are called hypocrites and according to your Sharia laws they can be killed. They are ranked with the unbelievers in what punishments can be dolled out to them.

The hypocrites in the Bible are not going to be killed, whipped or anything be done to them other than God will take care of them. Men will not be their judges.

In Islam Muslims set themselves up as the judges and mete out the punishments.

Jesus even mentioned that it was the hypcrites who would be the aggressors, not others. Unlike in Islam, it is the believers who are the aggressors and the judgers.

It is like night and day what Islam means and what Christianity means.

 

[qwerk]

qwerk, I had told you that the OP addressed the post to Muslims. Please read the words of the Thread. **Muslims, what exactly do you believe? **

Some one (Art321) is asking the Muslims about their exact beliefs. You are nobody to meddle in this affair. You are only spoiling the show and you are showing the bad face of your good religion.

I suggest he get his information from ex-Muslims because they have no interest in doing taqiyya anymore. Muslims do.

I have been studying it since the late 1990s.

 

[planten]

Well, they were being hypocrites.

Here is the difference between what is a hypocrite in all other places except in Islam. When a Muslim doesn’t wage Jihad, or support Jihad, they are called hypocrites and according to your Sharia laws they can be killed. They are ranked with the unbelievers in what punishments can be dolled out to them.

The hypocrites in the Bible are not going to be killed, whipped or anything be done to them other than God will take care of them. Men will not be their judges.

In Islam Muslims set themselves up as the judges and mete out the punishments.

Jesus even mentioned that it was the hypcrites who would be the aggressors, not others. Unlike in Islam, it is the believers who are the aggressors and the judgers.

It is like night and day what Islam means and what Christianity means.

qwerk, Please do not make excuses. You answer about the bad (bad according to your mind) language used by Jesus in mathew chapter 23 (which you ommitted to show in your above post). There, Jesus is calling some people (humans) as snakes and broods of vipers. Do not make excuses. Try to adjust the words in the bible with the words in the Quran and be sure that there is not much difference in the language of the bible or Quran.

Quran calls you a pig. That is not so bad as you all love the pigs. What problem do you have about being called a pig when Jesus was also calling bad people as snakes and vipers. Jesus never went near a pig. He considered the pig (swine) as a dirty animal. WE are with Jesus. It appears that it is permitted to use a symbolic language in the scriptures.

I have shown you that name calling is very common in bibleNT too.

 

[wwolverine]

No. Ahmadis number about 5 million (out of 1.6 billion Muslims) and mostly reside in Pakistan. As compared to Christianity Islam is a relatively undivided religion, 90% are Sunni, 9% are Shi’a and 1% belong to heretical sects like the Ahmadis.

I don’t see the relevance of this anecdote. The conflict between India and Pakistan over Kashmir is a political dispute over territory, it has nothing to do with religion. The Muslims in Pakistan and India are both overwhelmingly Sunni.

This statement is misleading within that context. The disagreements between Sunni and Shi’a are fundamentally about a political dispute, there are no significant theological differences between us like there are with Ahmadis. Mainstream Sunni institutions (like Al-Azhar) have ruled that although we don’t agree with Shi’a on a few issues, it’s not right to call them heretics.

I don’t like vague questions like this.

Dear Kadaveri,

I know my answer is in political sense, but it was just to show you that as long as shia or Ahmedia or any other muslim sect, gives the views which are similar to the sunni sect, its fine with them, but the moment any other answer which goes beyond the, understanding of the sunnis, is given, than they become heretics, or whatever.

Do the Ahmedis have a different quran which has some other prophet or is it mohammed? what about shias? As far as I know, sunnis dont accept the shias as their brothers, but hate them so much that they even spit or make faces. I dont know what their relationship is with the other sects.

 

[qwerk]

qwerk, Please do not make excuses. You answer about the bad (bad according to your mind) language used by Jesus in mathew chapter 23 (which you ommitted to show in your above post). There, Jesus is calling some people (humans) as snakes and broods of vipers. Do not make excuses. Try to adjust the words in the bible with the words in the Quran and be sure that there is not much difference in the language of the bible or Quran.

Quran calls you a pig. That is not so bad as you all love the pigs. What problem do you have about being called a pig when Jesus was also calling bad people as snakes and vipers. Jesus never went near a pig. He considered the pig (swine) as a dirty animal. WE are with Jesus. It appears that it is permitted to use a symbolic language in the scriptures.

I have shown you that name calling is very common in bibleNT too.

I am not giving excuses I was just explaining the verses. Jesus called them hypocrites. But they were in no bodily danger as hypocrites in Islam are. God will judge them and God did judge them at the time. They have time to repent on this earth during their lives and become true to themselves. In the meantime, Jesus foretold that they would be the aggressors and they were. I don’t know how you missed that if you have read the NT.

No Jews went to take them and whip them, or kill them because they were hypocrites. That is looked upon as a failing of the self rather than a crime of high treason, or a crime that deserves corporal punishment.

 

[qwerk]

A couple of important beliefs concerning hypocrites in Islam.

Apostates
Sharia law f1.3 ***says they are hypocrites ***(which is based on the koran) and if they don’t repent and go back to being a believer they are to be killed. … etc.

Now, if the Muslim is still a Muslim but does not perform salat (praying as ordained in Islam) then:

Punishment for those who do not perform the salat.
A Muslim who hold the prayer to be obligatory but through lack of concern neglects to perform it until its proper time is over has not committed unbelief (dis: w18.2)

Rather, he is executed, washed, prayed over, and buried in the Muslim’s cemetary (O: as he is one of them…etc.

 

[qwerk]

No. Ahmadis number about 5 million (out of 1.6 billion Muslims) and mostly reside in Pakistan. As compared to Christianity Islam is a relatively undivided religion, 90% are Sunni, 9% are Shi’a and 1% belong to heretical sects like the Ahmadis.

I don’t see the relevance of this anecdote. The conflict between India and Pakistan over Kashmir is a political dispute over territory, it has nothing to do with religion. The Muslims in Pakistan and India are both overwhelmingly Sunni.

I don’t like vague questions like these.

The conflict that is going on in India and Kashmir is because Muslims can’t seem to live in peace with others who do not want to be dhimmi. So they a country to give them demand parts of their land. They are doing this in the Philippines too. Israel is the same squabble.

There is no Islam without politics. Islam is a deen, or spelled din with a tic over the ‘i’.

Abu Ala Maududi (Let us be muslims, U.K.I.M. Dawah Center, Lahore Pakistan, 1960) "There are several meanings of Deen.

-One meaning is honour, government, empire, monarchy and rulership.

-The second meaning is quite opposite to it, i.e. subordination, obedience, slavery, servitude and subjection.

-Third meaning is to account, to give judgment, and dispense reward and punishment of actions.

The word Deen has been used in the Quran in all these three meanings."

I would say that the first meaning is pertinent here.

 

[Kadaveri]

Dear Kadaveri,

I know my answer is in political sense, but it was just to show you that as long as shia or Ahmedia or any other muslim sect, gives the views which are similar to the sunni sect, its fine with them, but the moment any other answer which goes beyond the, understanding of the sunnis, is given, than they become heretics, or whatever.

Do the Ahmedis have a different quran which has some other prophet or is it mohammed? what about shias? As far as I know, sunnis dont accept the shias as their brothers, but hate them so much that they even spit or make faces. I dont know what their relationship is with the other sects.

Ahmedis do not have a different Qur’an, however they believe in a prophet after Muhammad who taught that some parts of the Qur’an are no longer true, which makes them heretics. Shia do not believe anything like this but believe in the Qur'an 100% as Sunnis do. I have some close friends from Lebanon who are Shia (I’m a Sunni), they are my brothers and I love them.

 

[wwolverine]

Ahmedis do not have a different Qur’an, however they believe in a prophet after Muhammad who taught that some parts of the Qur’an are no longer true, which makes them heretics. Shia do not believe anything like this but believe in the Qur'an 100% as Sunnis do. I have some close friends from Lebanon who are Shia (I’m a Sunni), they are my brothers and I love them.

Thank you dear Khadaveri,

If you consider Ahmadis as heretics because they believe in another prophet after mohammed, what about Christians who dont believe in mohammed at all? What do you consider them as?

 

[Steven_John]

AoA, Bro

Steven, please explain your post in some detail as to how the Sunnis and Shias pray in peace side by side. We need to know exactly what they do. Thanks. How the Shai’s pray and work at the mosque side by side in peace

Perhaps you gave them a peaceful unfying lesson of love.

Yes some Jamat have tried to create division on this offering curse to praying behind other sects.

The Quran does not allow for division in Muslims and when humbley asked for please stand anyone who always practices Islamic faith as true as Mohamed (pbuh) none yet have stood.

Yes some offer some argument, but when they finish spouting, it is only for me to say “very well for you but I asked for a better leader, you have avoided the answer so i can only assume you no not better than the Quran. I can only assume we are all agreed we are in error so need only to gently warn each other as Allah instructs.”

Best i can do.

I would suggest being a small mosques of many nationalities helps with humility among the Brothers.

Personally my place is to be as much like Yeshua (pbwh) as i can and use the scripture they have faith in.

The community where i live dont argue against Yeshua (pbwh) teaching phrased “does Allah want…”.
At times they yield better than some Christians ie some at CAF. My experience is here those that assume religion for me as Islam dont Amen the teaching of Yeshua (pbwh) and let peace be, preferring not to comment on the teaching but spout of the rituals i need in my life .

Not offered to correct CAFers, i have done that in other threads, just my observation but personally i prefer to be in the company of those who yield to Yeshua (pbwh) regardless to the name they use for their religious profession.

On a side note u may help me with what surah is used to support the claim Mohamed (pbuh) is the last prophet.

May you and yours be bless and guided to His will

 

[planten]

Ahmedis do not have a different Qur’an, however they believe in a prophet after Muhammad who taught that some parts of the Qur’an are no longer true, which makes them heretics. Shia do not believe anything like this but believe in the Qur'an 100% as Sunnis do. I have some close friends from Lebanon who are Shia (I’m a Sunni), they are my brothers and I love them.

kadaveri, if the above highlighted portion is causing you some disturbance then I tell you that Ahmadis never said such a thing that some parts of quran are no longer true. That would be a grossly false blame on the Ahmadis.

The Ahmadis do interpret the Quran slightly different to the mainline Mullas belief. But they do not say that some verses of the Quran are no onger true. You are misinformed.

I would say that the Sunnis believe some verses of the Quran are abrogated. The Shias believe that real Quran is with the Imam Mehdi (12th Imam) who disappeared six hundred years ago. When he will come then he will bring the real Quran.

The leader of the Ahmadis claimed to be the same Messiah whose advent was prophesied by the prophet Muhammad. He also claimed to be the Imam al -Mahdi.

It is true that majority Muslims consider the Ahmadis as outside Islam. But it is not true that Ahmadis consider some verses to be not true. They interpret Jihad as peaceful propagation of faith, binding on all Muslims. No weapon is to be used.

I only wanted to challenge (correct) you on your statement highlighted in red above.

 

[spn82756]

qwerk, spn had invited you to do some digging (spade work). So, You are digging the grave of your own religion. Very good spade work.

planten…I’m going to strongly suggest that you not use my name in your dirty work. Next time I will report it. Where do you come off using my name like this

And planten…one other thing. Jesus promised that your kind would never prevail against His Church. Jesus is victory over islam.

 

[planten]

AoA, Bro

Yes some Jamat have tried to create division on this offering curse to praying behind other sects.

The Quran does not allow for division in Muslims and when humbley asked for please stand anyone who always practices Islamic faith as true as Mohamed (pbuh) none yet have stood.

Yes some offer some argument, but when they finish spouting, it is only for me to say “very well for you but I asked for a better leader, you have avoided the answer so i can only assume you no not better than the Quran. I can only assume we are all agreed we are in error so need only to gently warn each other as Allah instructs.”

Steven John, mosques are for prayers to be offered to the One God. They should be open to all worshippers who believe in One God. The mosques are not for political purposes or for spreading hatred amongst different faiths. There should be no announcements from the mosques agianst Jews or Hindus or chrstians…

Best i can do.

I would suggest being a small mosques of many nationalities helps with humility among the Brothers.

Personally my place is to be as much like Yeshua (pbwh) as i can and use the scripture they have faith in.

The community where i live dont argue against Yeshua (pbwh) teaching phrased “does Allah want…”.
At times they yield better than some Christians ie some at CAF. My experience is here those that assume religion for me as Islam dont Amen the teaching of Yeshua (pbwh) and let peace be, preferring not to comment on the teaching but spout of the rituals i need in my life .

Not offered to correct CAFers, i have done that in other threads, just my observation but personally i prefer to be in the company of those who yield to Yeshua (pbwh) regardless to the name they use for their religious profession.

On a side note u may help me with what surah is used to support the claim Mohamed (pbuh) is the last prophet.

May you and yours be bless and guided to His will

You please keep on trying for the unification of all faiths. If your Yeshua (pbwh) is Jesus then I am with you. I believe in Yeshua a.s.=pbwh.

 

[planten]

planten…I’m going to strongly suggest that you not use my name in your dirty work. Next time I will report it. Where do you come off using my name like this

And planten…one other thing. Jesus promised that your kind would never prevail against His Church. Jesus is victory over islam.

Okay I will not use your name and I will not address you by your name. You celebrate the victory. Enjoy yourself. I will permit the celebration of your slogan Jesus is victory over islam. But find out where is your Jesus for the last 2000 years??

Don’t forget **you used my name **hoping to remove me from your ignorance list !!!

 

[spn82756]

Okay I will not use your name and I will not address you by your name. You celebrate the victory. Enjoy yourself. I will permit the celebration of your slogan Jesus is victory over islam. But find out where is your Jesus for the last 2000 years??

Don’t forget **you used my name **hoping to remove me from your ignorance list !!!

You are welcome to use my name when addressing me or referencing something I said. But do not use my name to say things that I did not say.

The universe’s Jesus is in heaven. Sitting at the right hand of the Father in union with the Holy Spirit. Mohammad isn’t there though.

 

[qwerk]

You are welcome to use my name when addressing me or referencing something I said. But do not use my name to say things that I did not say.

The universe’s Jesus is in heaven. Sitting at the right hand of the Father in union with the Holy Spirit. Mohammad isn’t there though.

Maybe he doesn’t know why Islam is false.

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

1. Do not worship other gods.

Worshipping Allah is worshipping another god. Allah is not Yahweh. That becomes pretty apparent in the Quran. Allah’s three daughters are mentioned too. If the Quran is the suppsed word of their Allah then how could Allah make a mistake like that and allow the devil to enter into the picture?

1. Do not worship idols.

Worshipping the black stone is wrong, even though they say they do not, look to the behavior and it is worship. The behavior towards the Quran is also worship. Christians are jailed for touching Qurans. Whenever Jihad is mentioned over 95% of it is described as reasons why to commit violence against non-Muslims.

1. Do not misuse God’s name.

Do not use God’s name to justify murder, stealing, enslaving, obtaining sexual gratification by slavery, pediphilia, etc.

1. Keep the Sabbath holy.

pass

1. Honor your father & mother.

Honor killings are not honoring mother and father, and neither is allowing mother to be beaten just because she is a woman.

1. Do not murder.

Waging Jihad against others with violence being an option (that is in Sharia laws and in the Quran and Sunna) just because they are not Muslims is murder. Supporting murder with Muslim Charity and with da’wa mixed with taqiyya is being complicit in murder too.

1. Do not commit adultery.

Taking women and raping them because they have been enslaved just because they are not Muslims.

1. Do not steal.

Stealing from people just because they are not Muslims. Torturing people so they divulge where their possessions are and then killing them.

1. Do not lie.

Deceiving others, or taqiyya and hudna.

1. Do not covet.

coveting his stepson’s wife; coveting other’s land and animals, and money, etc.

There is no way for us to know if Muhammad confessed his sins before he died. It is up to God to judge him, not us, but if we look to Muhammad’s way of life in the last years before he died we can pretty much say he is sitting with his Allah right now. (if you get my drift here!)