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planten
Guest
Funny and very interesting. Please tell where it is written in your book that Mary was married by drawing the lots. Let us have it please. Do not forget. It could be useful. Welcome.
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Angelos
Guest
Infancy Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew Chapter 8
– Now it came to pass, when she was fourteen years old, and on this account there was occasion for the Pharisees’ saying that it was now a custom that no woman of that age should abide in the temple of God, they fell upon the plan of sending a herald through all the tribes of lsrael, that on the third day all should come together into the temple of the Lord. And when all the people had come together, Abiathar the high priest rose, and mounted on a higher step, that he might be seen and heard by all the people; and when great silence had been obtained, he said: Hear me, O sons of Israel, and receive my words into your ears. Ever since this temple was built by Solomon, there have been in it virgins, the daughters of kings and the daughters of prophets, and of high priests and priests; and they were great, and worthy of admiration. But when they came to the proper age they were given in marriage, and followed the course of their mothers before them, and were pleasing to God. But a new order of life has been found out by Mary alone, who promises that she will remain a virgin to God. Wherefore it seems to me, that through our inquiry and the answer of God we should try to ascertain to whose keeping she ought to be entrusted. Then these words found favour with all the synagogue. And the lot was east by the priests upon the twelve tribes, and the lot fell upon the tribe of Judah. And the priest said: To-morrow let every one who has no wife come, and bring his rod in his hand. Whence it happened that Joseph brought his rod along with the young men. And the rods having been handed over to the high priest, he offered a sacrifice to the Lord God, and inquired of the Lord. And the Lord said to him: Put all their rods into the holy of holies of God, and let them remain there, and order them to come to thee on the morrow to get back their rods; and the man from the point of whose rod a dove shall come forth, and fly towards heaven, and in whose hand the rod, when given back, shall exhibit this sign, to him let Mary be delivered to be kept.
Infancy Gospel of James (Protevangelium) Chapter 8
And her parents went down marvelling, and praising the Lord God, because the child had not turned back. And Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there, and she received food from the hand of an angel. And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of the priests, saying: Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, test perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord? And they said to the high priest: Thou standest by the altar of the Lord; go in, and pray concerning her; and whatever the Lord shall manifest unto thee, that also will we do. And the high priest went in, taking the robe with the twelve bells into the holy of holies; and he prayed concerning her. And behold an angel of the Lord stood by him, saying unto him: Zacharias, Zacharias, go out and assemble the widowers of the people, and let them bring each his rod; and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. And the heralds went out through all the circuit of Judaea, and the trumpet of the Lord sounded, and all ran.
Both of the apocryphals above were written many centuries before your Koran. Thus, the narrative in the Koran related to casting lots to determine who would be Mary’s guard was nothing new or unknown at Mohammad’s time.
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inJESUS
Guest
and hence the Quran’s claim that these were *revealed *because Muhammad “was not there” is wrong because he did not even need to be there to know about what he was claiming.Both of the apocryphals above were written many centuries before your Koran. Thus, the narrative in the Koran related to casting lots to determine who would be Mary’s guard was nothing new or unknown at Mohammad’s time.
Got it now Planten?
Thank you Angelos
Muhammad refered to many apocryphal gospels and it would have taken me a long time to remember which one is in question here but you did it for me anyway 
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Angelos
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You are welcome, my dear brother in Christ.and hence the Quran’s claim that these were *revealed *because Muhammad “was not there” is wrong because he did not even need to be there to know about what he was claiming.
Thank you Angelos
Studying the Koran has almost made me an expert on apocryphal writings
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inJESUS
Guest
seriously? my experience as well.Studying the Koran has almost made me an expert on apocryphal writings
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swariffin
Guest
Great Post, Angelos.Both of the apocryphals above were written many centuries before your Koran. Thus, the narrative in the Koran related to casting lots to determine who would be Mary’s guard was nothing new or unknown at Mohammad’s time.
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hamba2han
Guest
Question: Why do Christians reject the apocrypha?
And the answer: → Because the Church says that they are false.
The Qur’an does indeed give a stern warning to Christians who willingly place more faith in the authority of the Church rather than the Commands of their Creator as written in their own Bible:
Al-Qur’an, 009.031-035
They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
Fain would they extinguish Allah’s light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).
It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah: announce unto them a most grievous penalty-
On the Day when heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the fire of Hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, their flanks, and their backs.- "This is the (treasure) which ye buried for yourselves: taste ye, then, the (treasures) ye buried!"
And the answer: → Because the Church says that they are false.
The Qur’an does indeed give a stern warning to Christians who willingly place more faith in the authority of the Church rather than the Commands of their Creator as written in their own Bible:
Al-Qur’an, 009.031-035
They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
Fain would they extinguish Allah’s light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).
It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah: announce unto them a most grievous penalty-
On the Day when heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the fire of Hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, their flanks, and their backs.- "This is the (treasure) which ye buried for yourselves: taste ye, then, the (treasures) ye buried!"
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inJESUS
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planten
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Thanks angelos and inJesus for that post about casting lots. You have digged it out of nowhere. Nothing of that had been known to us and I am sure that our prophet did not read any of those things.
All he got was from Allah. That is the same as Jesus got all form Allah.
Thank you again that there is something about casting lots for Mary. Do you believe all that to be false. Please tell me that whatever angelos has posted is all false. Then I will get back to you. I am referring to that long post (some kind of gospel) which is used now to prove that the matter was in circulation and Muhammad may have known about it.
Please tell that whatever angelos presented was all false and it had nothing to do with the truth. Thanks.
All he got was from Allah. That is the same as Jesus got all form Allah.
Thank you again that there is something about casting lots for Mary. Do you believe all that to be false. Please tell me that whatever angelos has posted is all false. Then I will get back to you. I am referring to that long post (some kind of gospel) which is used now to prove that the matter was in circulation and Muhammad may have known about it.
Please tell that whatever angelos presented was all false and it had nothing to do with the truth. Thanks.
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swariffin
Guest
You can go ahead and check with the historians. Check when that apocript books were written. Perhaps Mohammad had not read that apocript since you claim that he is illiterate. But, sure He could still hear? You are NOT saying that Mohammad was deaf, are you?
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dolphinlove
Guest
You know what, i read this and there was only one truthful thing in all of this, that Jesus got everything from God.
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Angelos
Guest
Question: **Why does Hamba2han always present arguments that are illogical and irrelevant to our discussion? **
And the answer ----> **He can do nothing else to defend his scripture.
**I must also remind you that the Church was established by Christ Himself, and we definitely place more faith in the authority of the Church than in the false claims and accusations of a guy that tried to distort our scripture by declaring himself the last messenger with the help of a fabricated book.
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Angelos
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I was not with Neil Armstrong when he landed on the moon. However, I know everything about that historic incident. If you promise to be my first disciple and even martyr, I shall claim to be the last messenger
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Angelos
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How can you be sure that YOUR prophet did not read any of those? Were you with him?
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Booklover
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Angelos, as usual another great post! :hug1:Question: **Why does Hamba2han always present arguments that are illogical and irrelevant to our discussion? **
And the answer ----> **He can do nothing else to defend his scripture.
I must also remind you that the Church was established by Christ Himself, and we definitely place more faith in the authority of the Church than in the false claims and accusations of a guy that tried to distort our scripture by declaring himself the last messenger with the help of a fabricated book.
Vickie
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Angelos
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planten
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He was not deaf and he was not inquiring about christianity. Until the age of forty, he knew nothing about the religion. He learnt everything from Allah and nothing from your false books.
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planten
Guest
** We do not mind Jesus establishing your church. As far as we can see he had no time to do anything constructive. He was punished and he had to leave in a hurry without showing any sign to the wicked generation. He had promised to show the sign of the prophet Jonas.Question: **Why does Hamba2han always present arguments that are illogical and irrelevant to our discussion? **
And the answer ----> **He can do nothing else to defend his scripture.
I must also remind you that the Church was established by Christ Himself, and we definitely place more faith in the authority of the Church than in the false claims and accusations of a guy that tried to distort our scripture by declaring himself the last messenger with the help of a fabricated book.
After coming out of tomb, he never went bck to the wicked generation to show them that he was alive. But he spent a short time with his friends only and then left the scene.
The apocrypha is also a big problem for the church.**
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inJESUS
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are you convinced of your replies Planten?
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Angelos
Guest
We believe in the apostolic succession and Holy Scripture, and our faith is never affected by your deliberate misinterpretation and ignorance of the things stated in the Bible
All of your arguments are debunked by both the Sacred Scripture and tradition.
The apocrypha is NOT a problem for us Christians, but it still seems to be a big problem for you Muslims, whose scripture contains several accounts copied from them.
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