My #1 reason for not converting...

[Contrabass101]

Hi,

I know title is provoking. But seriously, I’m not looking for a fight.

There are many things in Catholicism that I like, and it seems to be the church that makes the most sense compared to others. Dogmas are well-defended and generally plausible.

However, I know so many Christians that are not Catholics (mainly Lutheran Charismatics) yet are on fire for God. I don’t talk about worship-song-i-love-you-jesus on fire, but REALLY on fire, giving their lives to the Lord, trusting in him. And I see God bless them, do miracles through them. I know several prophets and a few that speak in tongues, and some time ago, a miracle somewhat like the one with loaves and fish happened at a church I know.

If I looked solely at teachings and apologetics, I might as well be a Catholic, but when I look at these people, I can’t really believe that the Catholic Church is superior to other churches, as it claims. I can’t believe that these people are not the church.

If these miracles are not due to God, who then? I can’t believe it’s the devil.

• CB

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi,

I know title is provoking. But seriously, I’m not looking for a fight.

There are many things in Catholicism that I like, and it seems to be the church that makes the most sense compared to others. Dogmas are well-defended and generally plausible.

However, I know so many Christians that are not Catholics (mainly Lutheran Charismatics) yet are on fire for God. I don’t talk about worship-song-i-love-you-jesus on fire, but REALLY on fire, giving their lives to the Lord, trusting in him. And I see God bless them, do miracles through them. I know several prophets and a few that speak in tongues, and some time ago, a miracle somewhat like the one with loaves and fish happened at a church I know.

If I looked solely at teachings and apologetics, I might as well be a Catholic, but when I look at these people, I can’t really believe that the Catholic Church is superior to other churches, as it claims. I can’t believe that these people are not the church.

If these miracles are not due to God, who then? I can’t believe it’s the devil.

• CB

I would never say that they, non-Catholic Christians on fire for God are not part of the Church. They are and the Catholic Church says they are, and has never said otherwise.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hi,

I know title is provoking. But seriously, I’m not looking for a fight.

There are many things in Catholicism that I like, and it seems to be the church that makes the most sense compared to others. Dogmas are well-defended and generally plausible.

However, I know so many Christians that are not Catholics (mainly Lutheran Charismatics) yet are on fire for God. I don’t talk about worship-song-i-love-you-jesus on fire, but REALLY on fire, giving their lives to the Lord, trusting in him. And I see God bless them, do miracles through them. I know several prophets and a few that speak in tongues, and some time ago, a miracle somewhat like the one with loaves and fish happened at a church I know.

Charismatic movement is the fruits of the Holy Spirit. I would not surprise if some of these fruits have come within Non-Catholic Christian circles.

However, the Catholic Church itself has been charismatic as well. I heard Fr. Corapi talk about a woman gifted with speaking of tongue. She was also gifted in healing. She healed a person who was physical condition who couldn’t walk.

If I looked solely at teachings and apologetics, I might as well be a Catholic, but when I look at these people, I can’t really believe that the Catholic Church is superior to other churches, as it claims. I can’t believe that these people are not the church.

If these miracles are not due to God, who then? I can’t believe it’s the devil.

• CB

The Catholic Church I believe is superior. Her teaching authority of faith and morals is very clear. Protestant Church authorities have varies views on the issue on contraception, abortion, homosexuality, euthansia, death penalty, and others.

The Magisterium of the Church has these are immorally evil. Yet, in Protestantism, there is a lack of definitive role. The testimony of the Anglican/Episcopalian Church is divided on the role of homosexuals in the church, or their actions. This cause a division within the conservative and liberal Anglican and Episcopalian.

If this situation had occur in the Catholic Church, the Pope would no doubt revoke the bishops of ordaining openly gay priests or bishop, or execommunicate them.

The other thing that is lacking in Protestantism is the lack of valid Apostolic Succession.

In that sense, Protestantism is inferior form of Christianity.

 

[Jea9]

Hi,
I’m a recent convert to Catholicism. I don’t know how to really respond to what you’re asking except to ask more questions, sorry! What I’m wondering about is if you actually WITNESSED a miracle at one of these churches? When someone professes to “speak in tongue” is it as when the apostles received the gift or is it someone speaking in gibberish? When you say “prophets” do you mean that these people receive direct revelation from God and they meet the standards set forth in the Bible? (No false prophecies…etc.)
Sorry , I’m not trying to start an argument I’m just curious. I was a Mormon for a while and my last question really helped me discern what was truth and what wasn’t.

Thanks,
Jea9

 

[Pete_1]

Hi,

I know title is provoking. But seriously, I’m not looking for a fight.

There are many things in Catholicism that I like, and it seems to be the church that makes the most sense compared to others. Dogmas are well-defended and generally plausible.

However, I know so many Christians that are not Catholics (mainly Lutheran Charismatics) yet are on fire for God. I don’t talk about worship-song-i-love-you-jesus on fire, but REALLY on fire, giving their lives to the Lord, trusting in him. And I see God bless them, do miracles through them. I know several prophets and a few that speak in tongues, and some time ago, a miracle somewhat like the one with loaves and fish happened at a church I know.

If I looked solely at teachings and apologetics, I might as well be a Catholic, but when I look at these people, I can’t really believe that the Catholic Church is superior to other churches, as it claims. I can’t believe that these people are not the church.

If these miracles are not due to God, who then? I can’t believe it’s the devil.

• CB

These people are on Fire for God because they Love him, i highly doubt if they knew the Catholic church was the true church they would reject it. God judges the hearts, why would he not work through someone who has, through their own misunderstanding (or by false information) not joined the true church.

 

[scylla]

Here is a story…

And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

So yes there is probably many people on fire, doing things in the name of Jesus, there are even people on fire doing things in the name of God. I see hundreds Buddhist Monks marching in the streets of Burma.
I will not stop anyone outside the Catholic Church from doing good works. This is not what Jesus wants, but we should all do everything that Jesus wants.

He wants us to be one, to be united, to all be Catholic.
How obedient are you going to be? I can do good works outside the Catholic Church and not submit, I can be on fire, happy and involved. I know many people like that, I do not condemn them, but I invite them to be Catholic as they have no reason not to be.

Just because Judas was with the Apostles didn’t mean those people shouldn’t have united with the Apostles. We cannot condemn them, many people do good things and reject Catholicism, and there are plenty of bad Catholics.

Just because I know of a bad marriage that doesn’t make marriage wrong, it just shows that people fail.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[bobzills]

Hi,

I know title is provoking. But seriously, I’m not looking for a fight.

There are many things in Catholicism that I like, and it seems to be the church that makes the most sense compared to others. Dogmas are well-defended and generally plausible.

However, I know so many Christians that are not Catholics (mainly Lutheran Charismatics) yet are on fire for God. I don’t talk about worship-song-i-love-you-jesus on fire, but REALLY on fire, giving their lives to the Lord, trusting in him. And I see God bless them, do miracles through them. I know several prophets and a few that speak in tongues, and some time ago, a miracle somewhat like the one with loaves and fish happened at a church I know.

If I looked solely at teachings and apologetics, I might as well be a Catholic, but when I look at these people, I can’t really believe that the Catholic Church is superior to other churches, as it claims. I can’t believe that these people are not the church.

If these miracles are not due to God, who then? I can’t believe it’s the devil.

• CB

For my opinion, excessive emotionalism on an issue is bothersome and can lead to the wrong path.

 

[Fidelis]

And the multitudes running together, he began to say: This generation is a wicked generation: it asketh a sign, and a sign shall not be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
–Luke 11:29

For indeed Jews ask for **signs **and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. --1 Corinthians 1:22-25

 

[jmcrae]

However, I know so many Christians that are not Catholics (mainly Lutheran Charismatics) yet are on fire for God. I don’t talk about worship-song-i-love-you-jesus on fire, but REALLY on fire, giving their lives to the Lord, trusting in him. And I see God bless them, do miracles through them. I know several prophets and a few that speak in tongues, and some time ago, a miracle somewhat like the one with loaves and fish happened at a church I know.

That’s great that they have that!! No one doubts that God can and does work outside the confines of the Church - but He is working within it, too! We Catholics have miracles, and tongues, and healings, and all that, and the Truth about Jesus. You would not be leaving anything behind if you were to become a Catholic - there are many Catholics who have these gifts, and even greater gifts, besides. :dancing:

 

[porthos11]

If and when you develop a true love for the Eucharist and firmly and truly believe that it is truly Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Savior, you will become Catholic.

All these other things you describe will merely be secondary.

 

[bengal_fan]

peter kreeft has said that protestants need to be more catholic and catholics need to be more protestant. his meaning was that protestants need to experience the miracle of the mass, the authority of the magisterium, and the connection to history the way catholics do. catholics need to experience the passion, the commitment, and the connection to God that protestants seem to have. of course both have some of each within them, but i think he has a valid point.

 

[Kristine1957]

If and when you develop a true love for the Eucharist and firmly and truly believe that it is truly Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Savior, you will become Catholic.

All these other things you describe will merely be secondary.

This is the only way to understand the Fullness of God’s plan…and you will only find it there…

 

[scottm]

catholics need to experience the passion, the commitment, and the connection to God that protestants seem to have.

Yes, that!!!

Pretty sad, but ya, so far in my life journey, Protestants as a group are light years ahead of Catholics in terms of their relationship with God. Catholics know about God. Protestants know God. Measured as a group, not by the individual.

 

[Tonks40]

Yes, that!!!

Pretty sad, but ya, so far in my life journey, Protestants as a group are light years ahead of Catholics in terms of their relationship with God. Catholics know about God. Protestants know God. Measured as a group, not by the individual.

If you put this notion in a historical context, it could be said that protestants “know” God because in their POV, a renewal towards that love of God was needed.

But of course, that’s the protestants’ point of view.

Catholics historically have known of this love of God for centuries. Our practices, devotions, dedication, actions reveal it in a not-so-obvious manner. If someone from outside of the Church would like to see the depth and intense nature of this love, see those members of the Church that are faithful, fruitful, and free to love God in a manner that, IMHO, pales in comparison to the outward signs of our non-Catholic brethren. The knowledge we have in form of the Eucharist brings us (again, IMHO) closer, infuses us with Christ.

Can’t get any closer than that!

 

[MarcoPolo]

Hi,

I know title is provoking. But seriously, I’m not looking for a fight.

There are many things in Catholicism that I like, and it seems to be the church that makes the most sense compared to others. Dogmas are well-defended and generally plausible.

However, I know so many Christians that are not Catholics (mainly Lutheran Charismatics) yet are on fire for God. I don’t talk about worship-song-i-love-you-jesus on fire, but REALLY on fire, giving their lives to the Lord, trusting in him. And I see God bless them, do miracles through them. I know several prophets and a few that speak in tongues, and some time ago, a miracle somewhat like the one with loaves and fish happened at a church I know.

If I looked solely at teachings and apologetics, I might as well be a Catholic, but when I look at these people, I can’t really believe that the Catholic Church is superior to other churches, as it claims. I can’t believe that these people are not the church.

If these miracles are not due to God, who then? I can’t believe it’s the devil.

• CB

I understand the testament of witnessing miracles or such as being from God. But surely you are aware of Catholic miracles coming from the likes of Padre Pio or St. Anthony, etc…etc…

What I don’t understand from your post is what is your barometer for determining the true faith. Must it always be accompanied by high emotion and energy? Or are you willing to accept the truth if it sometimes is revealed in a challenging or seemingly mundane way?

I guess I would recommend that you don’t pre-emptively place qualifications on what you will consider true. Let the truth come to you in whatever form it takes.

Sometimes Jesus performed miracles and evoked much emotion, and other times He was solemn, and other times He challenged His listeners, etc…

 

[fellowChristian]

I read your post.

All that considered.

Would you really rather attend any other church then the one Christ founded?

I can picture it now

Jesus asking me why I don’t attend the church He built on Peter?

And me responding with… I’m sorry Jesus but the other churches are so much more entertaining.

Please… It is not about what makes us feel good it is about having the complete truth not just part of it.

The Protestants have the Bible. That is “part of the truth”. But what about the church?
They don’t have it.

So when you read verses

Matt 16:18, 1st Tim 3:15 or Matt 18:17

Do you close your eyes when you get to the part that says Jesus built a **church **or the part when the bible says the church is the pillar and foundation of truth, or how about when you read if you have a problem with your brother take it to the church, do you close your eyes and insert the word bible instead?

Why not have both?

 

[Deconi]

Hi,

I know title is provoking. But seriously, I’m not looking for a fight.

There are many things in Catholicism that I like, and it seems to be the church that makes the most sense compared to others. Dogmas are well-defended and generally plausible.

However, I know so many Christians that are not Catholics (mainly Lutheran Charismatics) yet are on fire for God. I don’t talk about worship-song-i-love-you-jesus on fire, but REALLY on fire, giving their lives to the Lord, trusting in him. And I see God bless them, do miracles through them. I know several prophets and a few that speak in tongues, and some time ago, a miracle somewhat like the one with loaves and fish happened at a church I know.

If I looked solely at teachings and apologetics, I might as well be a Catholic, but when I look at these people, I can’t really believe that the Catholic Church is superior to other churches, as it claims. I can’t believe that these people are not the church.

If these miracles are not due to God, who then? I can’t believe it’s the devil.

• CB

“CB,” God has Sovereign over ALL His creation, not JUST Catholics!!

His Holy Will and Ways are manifested in whatever, whomever, whenever and however He choses. What that means is, He may perform miracles through whatever instrument or mechanism He choses, including every human being, every living thing and or any inanimate thing; Buddhist, Islamist, Christian, planets, celestial bodies or plant life. Miracles are not confined to Catholics. The Church is not for performing miracles.

**The other thing is that The Catholic Church is not Superior to any other church, per se. The Church has never taught in this manner. Like its Founder, we are to SERVE!, to administer the deposit of FAITH for the salvation of ALL humanity! **

If you want to ‘see fire for God’ in Catholicism, it will be very hard because WE DO NOT ADVERTISE our deeds! The Catholic understands that every act we do with the grace of God and through that grace, IS FOR HIM, and we need no ‘witnesses’ to our actions.

Research and you will see a burning fire that will make you cry! The schools for children who cannot afford education, food for them, medical aid, all in 3rd world countries; the work with the poor and unwanted in your own country!! You will be amazed you never saw it before! Look for where the human state is AT ITS WORSE anywhere in the world! ANYWHERE!! There you will find volunteer Catholics at work without a TV crew or reporter in sight!

When you’ve done that, check back every 20years of the past 100 or 300years; same criteria. Look for where the human dignity is at its lowest form or need.

THAT IS WHAT IT IS TO BE burning with fire CATHOLIC style!!

There’s nothing especially noticeable about it.

 

[O.S.Luke]

If and when you develop a true love for the Eucharist and firmly and truly believe that it is truly Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Savior, you will become Catholic.

All these other things you describe will merely be secondary.

But I do love those things, Porthos. And I do have them. Why would I change?

O+

 

[bengal_fan]

Catholics historically have known of this love of God for centuries. Our practices, devotions, dedication, actions reveal it in a not-so-obvious manner. If someone from outside of the Church would like to see the depth and intense nature of this love, **see those members of the Church that are faithful, fruitful, and free to love God **in a manner that, IMHO, pales in comparison to the outward signs of our non-Catholic brethren. The knowledge we have in form of the Eucharist brings us (again, IMHO) closer, infuses us with Christ.

Can’t get any closer than that!

of course the problem is that many catholics just go through the motions of these practices. i have seen some of these people you talk about and yes, there is a deep level there. the problem is those people are few and far between.

 

[Tonks40]

of course the problem is that many catholics just go through the motions of these practices. i have seen some of these people you talk about and yes, there is a deep level there. the problem is those people are few and far between.

Why judge and compare then? We are all human - because of our sinful nature, at the surface, outward appearances seem to have a higher value, though we all know that value is misplaced. The challenge to those with faith is where do you place your value at?