My #1 reason for not converting...

[MariaG]

In what sense is the Church “following the world” in modern times? I’m not seeing it.

I am referring to the fact that for almost a thousand years, the Catholic Church condemned the use of torture, but then condoned the use of it in certain situations in 1200’s.

She again became the beacon by condemning torturem before the rest of the world did, but there was a dark period in the Church when torture was tolerated instead of being condemned.

 

[MariaG]

This is where we disagree. i think that it is morally wrong to go around torturing people. It is a humiliation of the person. Whereas, I do not think that celibacy is morally wrong.

Then you must take issue with God.

Lev. 20:1–2, 14
Deut. 22:23–24; 25:1–3
Prov. 13:24
Sir. 30:1, 9, 11–13

…

As usual, the Protestant’s quarrel here is with God, not the Catholic Church. Scripture is rife with God-sanctioned practices in the past which we now eschew; Protestants in putting forth this particular argument pretend not to know anything of Scripture…

Yes, to claim torture is intrinsically evil is to ignore God’s sacred scripture.

Another case where Catholics who do not believe in scripture alone, actually follow and understand scripture better than those who follow scripture alone

 

[DebChris]

FAB (#171) said what needed to be said when he referred to the richness of the Catholic faith. “My study hasn’t ended and it never will.” It is within the Catholic faith that my spirituality has the ability to grow. “For it is the function of the Church, led by the Holy Spirit who renews and purifies her ceaselessly, to make God the Father and His incarnate Son present and in a sense visible.”(Const. on the Church in the Modern World #21)

“The charisms [even those we don’t understand] are not holy oddities for eccentric saints. Instead they are practical tools for acquiring the mind of Christ and continuing His mission. Every Christian has his or her spiritual gift to contribute to the Kingdom.” (Charismatic Renewal by Jim Scully).

Pope Paul VI laid down 3 principles of Spiritual Renewal:

1. Faithfulness to the authentic teaching of the faith.
2. Grateful reception of gifts.
3. Supremacy of love over all the other gifts.

 

[peary]

CELIBACY is against Scripture??

In Matthew 19:12, Jesus actually praises celibacy, and he was celibate Himself. In 1 Corinthians 7:8, Paul himself was celibate, and in 1 Corinthians 7:32-35, he recommends celibacy for full-time ministers. Even in 1 Timothy 5:9-12, a pledge of celibacy was taken by older widows.

And in Jeremiah 16:1-4, the prophet is told not to take a wife and have children.

As Jesus says, he who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[bobzills]

Then you must take issue with God.

So the Catholic bishops are taking issue with God?
“Torture Is A Moral Issue” is the title of the 79-word National Religious Campaign Against Torture “statement of conscience” signed by Bishop William S. Skylstad of Spokane, Wash., president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) based here and more than 20 major U.S. Christian, Jewish, Muslim and Hindu leaders. It has also been signed by more than 10,000 individuals, according to organizers.

“Torture violates the basic dignity of the human person that all religions hold dear. It degrades everyone involved – policy-makers, perpetrators and victims. It contradicts our nation’s most cherished ideals. Any policies that permit torture and inhumane treatment are shocking and morally intolerable.

“Nothing less is at stake in the torture abuse crisis than the soul of our nation. What does it signify if torture is condemned in word but allowed in deed? Let America abolish torture now – without exceptions,” the statement reads.

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=21882

 

[bobzills]

Then you must take issue with God.

Lev. 20:1–2, 14
Deut. 22:23–24; 25:1–3
Prov. 13:24
Sir. 30:1, 9, 11–13

Yes, to claim torture is intrinsically evil is to ignore God’s sacred scripture.

Another case where Catholics who do not believe in scripture alone, actually follow and understand scripture better than those who follow scripture alone

So in spite of the statement of Catholic bishops, your advise is contrary and you support going around and torturing people. Do you also support rendition, where the USA kidnaps people and brings them into a foreign country, such as Jordan, and tortures them without trial?

 

[DebChris]

The argument generally given against celebacy is the passage, “It is not good for man to be alone.”
Celebacy, as taught by the Catholic Church, is a discipline. It allows an individual to give himself/herself fully to God without the restraints and obligations that go along with caring for another. A husband must provide for the material needs of his spouse and children. A man who remains celebrate does not need to, nor is he ever truly alone when he has an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

[bobzills]

The argument generally given against celebacy is the passage, “It is not good for man to be alone.”
Celebacy, as taught by the Catholic Church, is a discipline. It allows an individual to give himself/herself fully to God without the restraints and obligations that go along with caring for another. A husband must provide for the material needs of his spouse and children. A man who remains celebrate does not need to, nor is he ever truly alone when he has an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ.

Correct. I don;t see the analogy between the teaching on celibacy and the teaching on torture.Torture is a moral issue, as the statement signed by the US Conference of Bishops declares.

 

[DebChris]

Correct. I don;t see the analogy between the teaching on celibacy and the teaching on torture.Torture is a moral issue, as the statement signed by the US Conference of Bishops declares.

I don’t either. Marriage is a Sacrament that proclaims the dignity and sanctity of life. Celebacy allows an individual to be “wedded to the Church” in order to bring the faithful the life of Christ. The Sacrament of Holy Orders gives the priests the necessary gifts for this function.
Torture, on the other hand, falls under the Fifth Commandment in the harm it causes others.

 

[NonDenom]

Pete_;2923501]These people are on Fire for God because they Love him, i highly doubt if they knew the Catholic church was the true church they would reject it.

First of all, we know that the Roman Catholic Church is not the True Church.

God judges the hearts,

Amen, and for that I’m glad.

why would he not work through someone who has, through their own misunderstanding (or by false information) not joined the true church.

We don’t feel that we are the ones who misunderstand.

 

[peary]

First of all, we know that the Roman Catholic Church is not the True Church.

You do? Wow!

It must be great knowing everything.

 

[jmcrae]

First of all, we know that the Roman Catholic Church is not the True Church.

The evidence is against you. We know that Jesus intended to establish a Church, because He says so explicitly in Matthew 16:18-19. We know that Jesus set Peter up as the Chief Shepherd of the Church by reading John 21:15-19, and we see that Peter has always been at the head of the list of the Popes of the Catholic Church; what this tells us is that the Church that Jesus established is the Catholic Church, and that the Pope is the lawful successor to the office of Chief Shepherd that was first given to the Apostle Peter by Jesus.

We see no other church leader who was given that office by Jesus Himself - not Luther, not Calvin, not the Wesleys, not Cambell, and not Smyth, among the many other church founders who can be listed - Peter alone was appointed by Christ; therefore Peter’s Church is, in fact, Christ’s Church.

 

[mgrfin]

First of all, we know that the Roman Catholic Church is not the True Church.

This is an important statement.

I think the readers of this Forum would be interested to hear how do you know that the Roman Catholic Church is not the True Church.

Does that mean that no other church is the true Church?

Or, does that mean that there is one other Church is the true Church.

I would be interested to hear you answer so I might investigate the matter.

It is important for my salvation to belong to the True Church.

Please help me.

peace

 

[jmcrae]

This is an important statement.

I think the readers of this Forum would be interested to hear how do you know that the Roman Catholic Church is not the True Church.

Does that mean that no other church is the true Church?

If so, then Jesus lied to the Apostles in Matthew 16:18-19.

Or, does that mean that there is one other Church is the true Church.

This would mean that there has to be another Church that is:

World-wide, and available to all people everywhere (not just a particular nationality). See Matthew 28:16-20

Had the Apostle Peter as its leader in the first generation. (Meaning that it had to actually exist, in the first generation.)

Has been in continuous public existence from 33 AD until now.(Didn’t “hide its lamp under a bushel basket” or even completely cease to exist for any period of time between 33 AD and now.)

I don’t know of even a single one. There is an Orthodox church that was headed by Peter in the first generation, and that one didn’t cease to exist (although it split from the Universal Church in the early part of the second millenium), but it is not available to the whole world; it is only available to people of Syrian ancestry.

 

[Mannyfit75]

First of all, we know that the Roman Catholic Church is not the True Church.

So Jesus lied to us then because he promise the gates of hell, or hades or death shall not prevail against His Church. History shows the Early Christianity was One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. It was not Non-Denom, Baptist, Born-Again Christian, Anglican, Methodist, etc…

 

[bobzills]

I don’t either. Marriage is a Sacrament that proclaims the dignity and sanctity of life. Celebacy allows an individual to be “wedded to the Church” in order to bring the faithful the life of Christ. The Sacrament of Holy Orders gives the priests the necessary gifts for this function.
Torture, on the other hand, falls under the Fifth Commandment in the harm it causes others.

Thank you.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Roman Catholic Church

Please, we are Catholic Christians!!

newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm

 

[DebChris]

Please, we are Catholic Christians!!

newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm

I have a list at home of the various rites that are in union with Rome. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are available to any Christian, regardless of denomination who accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour.
I think the focus of this thread has been the depth of Catholic teaching. I will never know everything there is to know.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I have a list at home of the various rites that are in union with Rome. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are available to any Christian, regardless of denomination who accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour.
I think the focus of this thread has been the depth of Catholic teaching. I will never know everything there is to know.

I meant that you should not refer to Catholic Christians as Roman Catholics. There is really no such thing as Roman Catholic.

 

[Teflon93]

I meant that you should not refer to Catholic Christians as Roman Catholics. There is really no such thing as Roman Catholic.

Well, except for citizens of Rome who have been baptized Catholic.

The rest of us, however, are simply Catholics.