My #1 reason for not converting...

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Teflon93 said:
Well, except for citizens of Rome who have been baptized Catholic. 😉

The rest of us, however, are simply Catholics.
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The reason the term “Roman Catholic” is used is to distinguish between those who are in union with the Pope and those of us who are not in union yet still consider ourselves to be of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (especially Anglicans, Lutherans and Orthodox).

Anyhow, when it comes to religion, you usually don’t get to name your own faith
 other people put a label on you. 😉 (Think, e.g., of Lutherans, Calvinists, Methodists, Mormans or even “Christian” when it was first used).
 
porthos11 said:
I sorely disagree. I think the Catholic Church is the one light years ahead, by the plain fact that we become one with him in Holy Communion. Protestants know God too, but only in an incomplete way in his Word. We know him in both Word and Sacrament. If anything it is we who possess the fullest knowledge of God.

The sad thing is, many Catholics never bothered to appreciate this. But the Church does, and always has, for two thousand years.
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Consider the Great Commission.
Catholics don’t.
“Go ye therefore into all the world and TEACH them all the things I have told you.” Catholic priests don’t teach the things that Jesus and the Apostles taught.

That’s the problem.

Yesterday was the Sunday before Thanksgiving. The homily was 4 1/2 minutes long. (I timed it.) The Sunday before Thanksgiving! This is the season of thinking about all the things we have to be thankful for. We’ve had ten full months of experience with God (Jan – Oct) in this year alone. Multiply that by the 6500 families at my parish, and that’s a whole lot of things to talk about! Then there’s all the years before.

**Sheesh, I could come up with 12 hours of material about God, but the priest could not talk about God for even 5 minutes on the day of Thanksgiving!! **:eek:

After the 8 am Catholic mass I went to the 11 am Baptist church. The preacher there spoke for 45 minutes about the things that God has been doing in his immediate sphere. The Protestant is so close to God that he could talk for 45 minutes straight about what God is doing in his life, but a Catholic priest could only go for 4 minutes.

And you’re going to tell me that the Eucharist bonds you closer to God than whatever it is that the Baptist is doing? Get real. Over here that is so not true. It’s not true. The Catholics are stuck in the past, imagining themselve to be close to God because their spiritual forefathers were close to God. The Baptists, meanwhile, are living the saints’ lives right now today. They’re living it. That is how they can talk about God so readily, but a Catholic priest cannot.

I hope some day things change. I really do. It makes me sad to see Catholics unable to talk about what God is doing in their lives.

And then you’ll say, “The homilies are supposed to be short.”

And then I’ll say, "It’s not that they are supposed to be short. They homilies are short only because the parishoners cannot suffer to sit in the house of God for more than an hour at a time nor listen to someone talk about God for more than ten minutes at a time, maximum. Every single deacon and priest says so. " Case proven.

I really, really hope someday this changes. It’s a sufficient reason for not converting.
 
rr1213 said:
The reason the term “Roman Catholic” is used is to distinguish between those who are in union with the Pope and those of us who are not in union yet still consider ourselves to be of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (especially Anglicans, Lutherans and Orthodox).

Anyhow, when it comes to religion, you usually don’t get to name your own faith
 other people put a label on you. 😉 (Think, e.g., of Lutherans, Calvinists, Methodists, Mormans or even “Christian” when it was first used).
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And “Roman Catholic” is a complete misnomer used in derogatory fashion quite often by Protestants. Just as I don’t call Episcopalians “Tools of Henry VIII”, but rather what they call themselves, Episcopalians, even though I don’t believe their bishops have valid holy orders, it is simple manners to call Catholics Catholics.

NOBODY calls Episcopalians “Catholics”—they don’t do so because a) Episcopalians do not call themselves that and b) it’s confusing.

The fact is quite simply that people who ought to know better like to hang onto stealth slurs. It is the mark of those weak in faith and charity.
 
Teflon93 said:
And “Roman Catholic” is a complete misnomer used in derogatory fashion quite often by Protestants. Just as I don’t call Episcopalians “Tools of Henry VIII”, but rather what they call themselves, Episcopalians, even though I don’t believe their bishops have valid holy orders, it is simple manners to call Catholics Catholics.

NOBODY calls Episcopalians “Catholics”—they don’t do so because a) Episcopalians do not call themselves that and b) it’s confusing.

The fact is quite simply that people who ought to know better like to hang onto stealth slurs. It is the mark of those weak in faith and charity.
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At one point, “Lutheran” and “Methodist” and “Christian” were considered slurs also. They aren’t now. Likewise, “Roman Catholic”.
 
I don’t mind being called a Roman Catholic - my Pope is in Rome, and I am a Catholic, so it makes perfect sense to me.

Our homily yesterday went for a full half hour, and nobody minded even a little bit. It was great!! 🙂
 
rr1213 said:
At one point, “Lutheran” and “Methodist” and “Christian” were considered slurs also. They aren’t now. Likewise, “Roman Catholic”.
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But Roman Catholic IS—that is why you and others hang onto it.

You’ll need to provide some evidence for the rest, particularly that adherents of Lutheran and Methodist theology and Christians considered each to be a slur.

In the meantime, it is telling that our various Protestant brothers and sisters cannot even refer to us using the familiar term by which even the secular media calls us—Catholics.

Perhaps we Catholics should simply refuse to respond to any interlocutor who insists upon using “Roman Catholic” despite the repeated objections to it. Why bother discussing anything with someone whose faith hangs upon so slim a thread as the need to apply clearly erroneous and rude labels to others for the sake of their sniggering amen choir?
 
Teflon93 said:
But Roman Catholic IS—that is why you and others hang onto it.

You’ll need to provide some evidence for the rest, particularly that adherents of Lutheran and Methodist theology and Christians considered each to be a slur.

In the meantime, it is telling that our various Protestant brothers and sisters cannot even refer to us using the familiar term by which even the secular media calls us—Catholics.

Perhaps we Catholics should simply refuse to respond to any interlocutor who insists upon using “Roman Catholic” despite the repeated objections to it. Why bother discussing anything with someone whose faith hangs upon so slim a thread as the need to apply clearly erroneous and rude labels to others for the sake of their sniggering amen choir?
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The terms “Lutheran” or “Methodist” or “Christians” are not currently slurs, but they began that way as labels put on these groups by others (usually their opponents). They learned to live with the term and so should Roman Catholics.

I imagine that Anglicans and Lutherans will stop using the term “Roman Catholic” when Roman Catholics include Anglicans and Lutherans within their definition of the Catholic Church
because, most certainly, both Anglicans and Lutherans consider themselves to be Catholic.
 
rr1213 said:
The terms “Lutheran” or “Methodist” or “Christians” are not currently slurs, but they began that way as labels put on these groups by others (usually their opponents). They learned to live with the term and so should Roman Catholics.

I imagine that Anglicans and Lutherans will stop using the term “Roman Catholic” when Roman Catholics include Anglicans and Lutherans within their definition of the Catholic Church
because, most certainly, both Anglicans and Lutherans consider themselves to be Catholic.
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Really? So when the newspaper talks about the Catholic sex abuse scandal the Anglicans and Lutherans think it’s theirs?
 
rr1213 said:
The terms “Lutheran” or “Methodist” or “Christians” are not currently slurs, but they began that way as labels put on these groups by others (usually their opponents). They learned to live with the term and so should Roman Catholics.

I imagine that Anglicans and Lutherans will stop using the term “Roman Catholic” when Roman Catholics include Anglicans and Lutherans within their definition of the Catholic Church
because, most certainly, both Anglicans and Lutherans consider themselves to be Catholic.
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Then why do their churches say, Lutheran Church of America, or Mo. Synod. Why do you define yourself as former Episcopal. Using Roman is derogatory. We do not call African-Americans the N word simply because they “can’t decide” what they want to be called, black or African American, or Colored (NAACP).

I’m with Tef. Those who continue to post in this manner after it has been pointed out this is offensive are not interested in serious dialog.
 
Teflon93 said:
Really? So when the newspaper talks about the Catholic sex abuse scandal the Anglicans and Lutherans think it’s theirs?
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and you always refer to the followers of Joseph Smith as Latter Day Saints
or as “Mormons”
?
 
rr1213 said:
Because they got stuck with the name, apparently originated by the Catholic Johann Eck.

ctsfw.edu/etext/walther/name_luth.asc

newadvent.org/cathen/05271b.htm

Likewise, “Methodist” was once a pejorative term as well.

newadvent.org/cathen/05271b.htm
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If someone else got stuck with a term in the past, does not mean that continuing posting offensively is acceptable. If Methodists find it offensive, they can let me know, I will respect them. I do not expect dialog when one knowingly and willingly uses derogatory terms after they have been enlightened. It is a matter of respect.
 
Various Common Usage of the term “Catholic”


*The term Catholic Church is most commonly used to mean:

The Roman Catholic Church
The Christian Church in general
Catholic Church is also used to describe other entities:

In Eastern Christianity:

The Eastern Orthodox Church
The Oriental Orthodox Churches
The Assyrian Church of the East
In Western Christianity:

The Old Catholic Church
The Polish National Catholic Church
The Orthodox Catholic Church
The Independent Catholic Churches
The Anglican Communion
For fuller information, see Catholicism

[edit] See also
Anglo-Catholicism
Branch Theory
Four Marks of the Church
Neo-Lutheranism *

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_%28disambiguation%29

Hence, another reason to be more precise with the terminology “Roman Catholic”. At times, even the Vatican has used the term “Roman Catholic”:

*Instances of the Roman Catholic Church: Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity (May 2003). Final CommuniquĂ© of the Joint Group between the Roman Catholic Church and the World Council of Churches. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity (May 2005). Anglican – Roman Catholic International Commission (ARCIC). Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews (March 1982). Notes on the Correct Way to Present the Jews and Judaism in Preaching and Catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Pope Pius XI (December 1929). Divini Illius Magistri. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Pope Pius XII (August 1950). Humani Generis. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14. *

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church

(See footnote 11 in the above webcite).
 
rr1213 said:
At times, even the Vatican has used the term “Roman Catholic”:

*Instances of the Roman Catholic Church: Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity (May 2003). Final CommuniquĂ© of the Joint Group between the Roman Catholic Church and the World Council of Churches. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity (May 2005). Anglican – Roman Catholic International Commission (ARCIC). Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews (March 1982). Notes on the Correct Way to Present the Jews and Judaism in Preaching and Catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Pope Pius XI (December 1929). Divini Illius Magistri. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Pope Pius XII (August 1950). Humani Generis. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14. *

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church

(See footnote 11 in the above webcite).
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I don;t see why there would be anything wrong with using the term Roman Catholic Church. If the Vatican itself uses this terminology, how could there be any objection?
 
bobzills said:
I don;t see why there would be anything wrong with using the term Roman Catholic Church. If the Vatican itself uses this terminology, how could there be any objection?
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Personally, I have no objections. I am not understanding the argument, because everyone knows what is meant by Catholic, and Roman Catholic. No one thinks that the term Roman Catholic means that we worship the Pope instead of God - and if they do, too bad for them, I say. đŸ€·
 
I’ve started a thread on the “Roman Catholic” vs. “Catholic” label discussion. It’s come up in several threads, seems people want a little more on it. Please pop over and weigh in if you’d like so this one can get back to topic.
 
DebChris said:
Benny Hinn is not Catholic. Blessed John XXIII prayed for a New Pentecost to overshadow the Roman Catholic Church as he convened Vatican II. This has indeed happened. The Charismatic Renewal is recognized and blessed by the vatican. It requires adherence to the Magisterium. As we know from the canonization process, miracles do occur within the Church and undergo investigation to prove authenticity. A crying Madonna, for instance, must be proved not to result from a broken water pipe.
The vatican papers and the Catechism of the Catholic Church both speak about the charisms, or gifts that God has given individuals. Each is given for the upbuilding of the Church even as they bring healing and consolation to the person who has been blessed by such gifts.
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Let’s not confuse the Charismatic movement, and the Pentecostal movement within the Church, and this "gift of tongues’. If it is ‘infantile babbling’ and unintelligible, then it is very suspect. I could not find easily a reference in the CCC, and I don’t know what ‘vatican papers’ speak approvingly of such ‘speech’. Maybe you could assist me with references, which would be much appreciated.

peace
 
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