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Mannyfit75
Guest
I agree. I do like to add that we go to Mass for the Eucharist rather than sing. We can sing to praise God, but we are there because of Jesus Christ.
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ILUVGSUS2
Guest
I think that depends on the parish. I used to go to a parish where the singing was wonderful! When you left that parish, you KNEW you had been to church. The homily was wonderful, the singing was out of this world. Of course mass always lasted at least 90 minutes, but you left that parish ON FIRE FOR JESUS! Unfortunately I now live an hour away from there.
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justinthemartyr
Guest
Church is not about “feeling good”.
The Christian life is not about feeling good either. Mother Teresa is a great example of that, serving totally in spite of not feeling the presence of God most of the time, but living in faith and in continued serrvice to others.
The Mass is centered on Christ being made present in the Eucharist. I sometimes wish I were blind so that there were no distractions for me in the Mass and so that I could be focused even more on Jesus. I close my eyes through most of it.
After being a member of over 18 denominations of bible churches and trying to make God make me feel good and living a sensationalistic life, it was difficult to become accustomed to the humble worship that is found in the Church. Shut up for an hour and focus on Jesus basically. It is all about Him.
The apostles certainly were not in it for the feeling, after all torture does not feel too good.
The Christian life is not about feeling good either. Mother Teresa is a great example of that, serving totally in spite of not feeling the presence of God most of the time, but living in faith and in continued serrvice to others.
The Mass is centered on Christ being made present in the Eucharist. I sometimes wish I were blind so that there were no distractions for me in the Mass and so that I could be focused even more on Jesus. I close my eyes through most of it.
After being a member of over 18 denominations of bible churches and trying to make God make me feel good and living a sensationalistic life, it was difficult to become accustomed to the humble worship that is found in the Church. Shut up for an hour and focus on Jesus basically. It is all about Him.
The apostles certainly were not in it for the feeling, after all torture does not feel too good.
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bobzills
Guest
Then why have the feel good type liturgical music? Clapping, swaying to and fro, hugging, kissing, etc.?
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Teflon93
Guest
Another entry in your “Things to Blame the Catholic Church For” logbook.
And where precisely do you think Catholics may have gotten the idea for folk Mass, Bob?
Oh, and a belated congratulations on your conversion to Orthodoxy.
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peary
Guest
Why? Because it’s ALL ABOUT US, not GOD! THAT’S WHY!
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rr1213
Guest
You want the New Testament? Ok, see Revelation 5:Yes. This is where most Protestants live. The Old Testament! To proclaim something. To tell of the promise, the hope. To proclaim The Almighty and His power, His Love; Who He is.
Nothing wrong with that.
But they are starved of The Fullness of That Truth. The understanding of His Presence during Mass. Not a memory of Him; but WITH HIM in ‘presenting’ His Sacrifice, The Eucharist. To partake in the sacrifice of old, in its NT form, and the following meal that sanctifys and grants us everlasting life!
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. ***Each one had a harp ***and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. 10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”
5: 11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12 In a loud voice they sang: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honour and glory and praise!”
Rev 5:13 Then I heard ***every creature in heaven and on earth ***and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and hon honour and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
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jmcrae
Guest
A harp is neither a guitar nor a banjo.
It is entirely possible for Catholics to sing the Mass using traditional instruments for accompaniment, without it turning into a hootenanny - in fact, I experience this being done on a regular basis.
It is entirely possible for Catholics to sing the Mass using traditional instruments for accompaniment, without it turning into a hootenanny - in fact, I experience this being done on a regular basis.
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Curt
Guest
If you really had looked at Catholic teaching and apologetics, then you would know that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ established, and having an ordained priesthood with the authority to consecrate bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus.
There are over 1 billion Catholics in the world. There are just as many Cathoics on fire for the Lord as in a multitude of Protestant denominations, all disagreeing with each other on Scripture and doctrine. You can still be a Catholic and appreciate the faith of your Protestant friends.
There are over 1 billion Catholics in the world. There are just as many Cathoics on fire for the Lord as in a multitude of Protestant denominations, all disagreeing with each other on Scripture and doctrine. You can still be a Catholic and appreciate the faith of your Protestant friends.
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rr1213
Guest
Believe me, I’m not a fan of “praise music” … at least at church. I suppose it could be ok in a Sunday evening “prayer and praise” service or something. My reference to Revelation was in response to a fellow who seemed to think that praising God with song is solely an “Old Testament Thing”.A harp is neither a guitar nor a banjo.
It is entirely possible for Catholics to sing the Mass using traditional instruments for accompaniment, without it turning into a hootenanny - in fact, I experience this being done on a regular basis.
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Teflon93
Guest
As a corrective I recommend anyone who thinks such a thing get ahold of some Mozart, Pope Benedict XVI’s favorite musician. He composed quite a lot of religious music, some of which lives on in Catholic hymnals if you look closely.
J.S. Bach of course is the master of liturgical music, but his being a Lutheran might spoil the full enjoyment of his cantatas for some.
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rr1213
Guest
And Franz Schubert. I’ve seen his German Mass used in Catholic hymnals for some of the settings such as the Sanctus.As a corrective I recommend anyone who thinks such a thing get ahold of some Mozart, Pope Benedict XVI’s favorite musician. He composed quite a lot of religious music, some of which lives on in Catholic hymnals if you look closely.
J.S. Bach of course is the master of liturgical music, but his being a Lutheran might spoil the full enjoyment of his cantatas for some.
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lhagan
Guest
I’ve been Atheist all my life and a few months ago started researching religion because God has made me well aware of his presence in my life so what I’m about to say has no bias what so ever and it comes from honestly caring about your well being.
Anybody that claims to be or thinks they know a prophet,speaking in tongues,biblical miracles that isn’t of biblical times needs a good psychologist. We all love you and pray for your psychological and spiritual guidance.
Also, I fully agree with the Catholic church about Protestants and Restorations being heretics. Martin Luther had a good reason. Selling of indulgences disgusts me. Sickens me so. But since the opening of interpretations in the Lutheran church I believe it has lost its way a little. Protestantism isn’t all that bad though they just have a few quirks I don’t agree with. Restorationism on other hand makes me weep for the people they are brainwashing.
I do not agree with the Catholic church about Judaism and Islam being heretics.
My number one reason for not converting is being stuck between Judaism,Catholicism,and Islam.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Thank you for sharing your story.
Martin Luther was correct in speaking against the selling of indulgences. Selling of relics, indulgences and Simony are NOT allowed by the Catholic Church. Martin Luther continued in heresy with Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. He breached ties with the Pope, calling the Pope the “whore of Babylon,” a quote from Revelations which is most likely a code for “Roman Emperor.”
*On 31 October, 1517, the vigil of All Saints’, Luther affixed to the castle church door, which served as the “black-board” of the university, on which all notices of disputations and high academic functions were displayed, his Ninety-five Theses. The act was not an open declaration of war, but simply an academic challenge to a disputation. “Such disputations were regarded in the universities of the Middle Ages partly as a recognized means of defining and elucidating truth, partly as a kind of mental gymnastic apt to train and quicken the faculties of the disputants. It was not understood that a man was always ready to adopt in sober earnest propositions which he was willing to defend in the academic arena; and in like manner a rising disputant might attack orthodox positions, without endangering his reputation for orthodoxy” (Beard, op. cit.). The same day he sent a copy of the Theses with an explanatory letter to the archbishop. The latter in turn submitted them to his councillors at Aschaffenburg and to the professors of the University of Mainz. The councillors were of the unanimous opinion that they were of an heretical character, and that proceedings against the Wittenberg Augustinian should be taken. This report, with a copy of the Theses, was then transmitted to the pope. It will thus be seen that the first judicial procedure against Luther did not emanate from Tetzel. His weapons were to be literary.
Tetzel, more readily than some of the contemporary brilliant theologians, divined the revolutionary import of the Theses, which while ostensibly aimed at the abuse of indulgences, were a covert attack on the whole penitential system of the Church and struck at the very root of ecclesiastical authority.*
newadvent.org/cathen/09438b.htm
Jews and Islamists are not heretics. A heretic is a Catholic who start disagreeing with Catholic teaching.
newadvent.org/summa/3011.htm
Keep reading, especially early church fathers, Irenaeus, Jusin Martyr, Ignatious. Catholic is the fullness of Judaism. Read Rosalind Moss a Jewish convert with great love for Judaism. I just finished reading Honey from the Rock Stories of Jewish converts to CC. Very inspirational.
God bless you on your journey
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lhagan
Guest
qui est ce:
Anymore sites that would be helpful?
Anymore sites that would be helpful?
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justinthemartyr
Guest
The first short chapter of “LIfe of Christ” by Fulton J Sheen would give you clarity on the difference between Christ and any other man claiming to be a prophet, messenger of God, or God Himself.
It is short, sweet and to the point and amazing in it’s depth of the subject.
peace, justinthemartyr
It is short, sweet and to the point and amazing in it’s depth of the subject.
peace, justinthemartyr
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Mannyfit75
Guest
The Catholic Church never stated that Judaism and Islam as heretics.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
Heresy is the **obstinate post-baptismal denial **of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith.
Indeed, Judaism denies Jesus Christ as the Messiah, but one can hope they will realized that the Jesus is the Promised One.
Islam itself does teaches contrary to what the Church teaches. They deny the resurrect of the Lord Jesus Christ, while the Catholic Church does believe the resurrection.
Let me quote the Catechism:
839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327** The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant**. To the Jews** “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”**,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329
840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330
842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332
844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333
845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Here is one you can download to your MP3 player for free or just listen to on your computer for free!
biblechristiansociety.com/index.php
also here
ewtn.org/podcast/index.asp
Both are excellent sources of intelligent and faithfilled information about Christianity.
God bless.
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Deconi
Guest
It’s not the singing, but the mode of music and singing. You don’t sing rap music in church, nor sing church songs at rap concerts
My point is the difference in our services of worship. Where as the Protestants focuses on the proclamation (like OT Prophets) of Our Lord, The Catholic Mass pivots on The Sacrifice of Our Lord, The Eucharist. (New Testament)
Where the Protestant clap, sing and do cartwheels proclaiming the hope that is within us all because Our Lord has risen, ascended into Heaven and will come again, (Like OT prophets) The Catholic recounts, as He Commanded, His ultimate sacrifice of being caught and killed as the sacrificial lamb of old offerings in the OT.
Given that that includes His death on The Cross, it is hardly appropriate to have clappers and happy shouters at your feet whilst hanging there.
Sure, some Reformers will, and do, argue that He has risen and it is in His ‘defeating Death’ that gives us our new hope and proof of it. All true. But it is in His death, the sacrifice, that redeemed us!
The praising music, happy clappers and proclaimers of our hope in Our Risen Lord in Protestantism celebrates only one aspect of ‘The Passion.’ The happy ending! Catholicism recounts the entire event, including His death, for one cannot be separated from the other. Coupled with Our Lord being present as promised, what it means is Holiness; reverence; humility of a creature before its Maker.
Citing Revelation, a future event, is hardly reflected in Protestant worship. For one thing, even if you replaced all the instruments in the churches with harps, it still wouldn’t look like the events envisioned in the book. Secondly, since it is ‘The Return of The King’ every Christian, and probably all creation, will be doing cartwheels!
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peary
Guest
*On 31 October, 1517, the vigil of All Saints’, Luther affixed to the castle church door, which served as the “black-board” of the university, on which all notices of disputations and high academic functions were displayed, his Ninety-five Theses. *
**Contemporary scholars don’t even agree that this was even a legitimate event.
Besides, the Church had been reforming from within for over a hundred years by the time Luther decided to be a theological wannabe. Luther seems to have been the last person to have been aware of it.**
**Contemporary scholars don’t even agree that this was even a legitimate event.
Besides, the Church had been reforming from within for over a hundred years by the time Luther decided to be a theological wannabe. Luther seems to have been the last person to have been aware of it.**
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