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Trebor135
Guest
يعجبني كثيرا دائما آن آلتقي شخص آاخر يعرف العربية!
(يمبغي آن آوضح: اللغة هي التركيز الآساسي لدراستي الآن, فلست بليغ بعد, ولكن ذلك هو آحد هدف لي.)كم من هذه الترتيلة القبطية / العربية تستطع آن تفهم؟
(Here’s what I was intending to say, for the sake of all readers: I always like it very much when I meet someone else who speaks Arabic!
*How much of this Coptic/Arabic hymn can you understand?)
Wow, that’s quite ambitious. Good luck!
*
K
Khalid
Guest
I’ll listen to it. I have to open another web browser, etc. to be able to play Flash.
Edit: from what I hear, it’s the Coptic Orthodox version of “Kyrie Eleison” (that is, “Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy”) with a few differences:
Have mercy on us (six times I think, he sings it for a full minute)
[Lord] have mercy, [Lord] have mercy, [Lord] have mercy
Have mercy God our Savior
Have mercy God our Savior
Have mercy, have mercy upon us God our Savior
Have mercy, have mercy, have mercy upon us God the Father, Ruler of All
Have mercy, have mercy, have mercy upon us God the Savior
Have mercy, have mercy upon us God, and have mercy.
[Lord] have mercy, [Lord] have mercy, [Lord] have mercy.
And then I stopped listening.
I think that’s the bulk of it, repeated. It’s kind of like the Paternoster in Coptic: I know the words, but I don’t always know what they mean, as I memorized all of it by rote when very young. It sounds a bit like the Muslim Adhan now that my ear is used to English. I suppose the scales used are the same. (Ironically, as a Muslim, the adhan I believed beautiful; now it sounds like fingernails screeching on a chalkboard.)
Edit: from what I hear, it’s the Coptic Orthodox version of “Kyrie Eleison” (that is, “Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy”) with a few differences:
Have mercy on us (six times I think, he sings it for a full minute)
[Lord] have mercy, [Lord] have mercy, [Lord] have mercy
Have mercy God our Savior
Have mercy God our Savior
Have mercy, have mercy upon us God our Savior
Have mercy, have mercy, have mercy upon us God the Father, Ruler of All
Have mercy, have mercy, have mercy upon us God the Savior
Have mercy, have mercy upon us God, and have mercy.
[Lord] have mercy, [Lord] have mercy, [Lord] have mercy.
And then I stopped listening.
I think that’s the bulk of it, repeated. It’s kind of like the Paternoster in Coptic: I know the words, but I don’t always know what they mean, as I memorized all of it by rote when very young. It sounds a bit like the Muslim Adhan now that my ear is used to English. I suppose the scales used are the same. (Ironically, as a Muslim, the adhan I believed beautiful; now it sounds like fingernails screeching on a chalkboard.)
C
Cavaradossi
Guest
Hey! Mandarin, that’s the language I grew up with, although as a consequence of growing up in America, my ability to read Chinese is hampered quite significantly.
K
Khalid
Guest
I’m still working on learning the radicals. Question: is “simplified” Chinese really simplified at all? I’ve seen some simplified characters that were more elusive than the “traditional” ones, i.e. simplified Chinese character for “love” doesn’t have character for “heart” in it, traditional one does.
I’m learning traditional anyways, as simplified isn’t used anywhere outside of mainland China that I know of.
I’m learning traditional anyways, as simplified isn’t used anywhere outside of mainland China that I know of.
T
Trebor135
Guest
Hahaha. The hymn is eight minutes long… but, thankfully, it doesn’t consist of that repeated for all that time.
Ahh. After the Coptic part at the beginning, a guy starts singing in Modern Standard Arabic and then (as far as I can tell) a lady takes over in Egyptian Arabic.
Is this language/dialect-switching normal for Coptic liturgy?
I’ve detected a resemblance to the Islamic melismatic style of Qur’anic recitation. I’m delighted to see Christians using something characteristically Islamic (or what Westerners might consider to be such) to give praise to Jesus. I myself find the style to have an aura of profound solemn beauty, but perhaps the novelty will eventually wear off…
If you ever feel inclined to write about it, I’d very much like to hear your conversion story from Coptic Orthodox Christianity, then to Islam, and finally to Catholic Christianity.
K
Khalid
Guest
Yes, from what I know (not much), the polyglot character is characteristic of Coptic Orthodoxy. As an aside, “Arabic” is much like “Chinese”, not “English” - it is a family of languages, more than a family of slightly-different dialects. Egyptians and Jordanians, or Saudis and Lebanese, for example, can not understand each other unless both are university educated and can code switch to MSA. Thankfully, Egypt being the cultural leader of the Arabic-speaking world, almost everything is in Egyptian or MSA, and very little in the other Arabic languages (“dialect” seems to be the wrong term).
Short story of conversion (the long version can be pieced together from across the forum): I was baptized (or at least I believe I was, as I have no documentation nor living family/witnesses, but was told so at a young age, or at least remember being told so) in the Coptic Orthodox Church by a parent (in a typically American fashion) who never went to Church, but had her son baptized anyways. I never actually practiced Coptic Orthodoxy: I was raised after a very secular manner (parents were intelligentsia-socialists), until I took it upon myself to convert to the dominant Islam (for reasons, many likely psychological, that I have yet to and likely never will fully understand) around 11-13 years old. I was pious for a year or two. I backslid and became a secret atheist for a few years. (I had a brush with Mormonism towards the end of this time I usually leave out.) Eventually, circumstances conspired and I returned to Islam with absolute zeal.
As I actually learned of Islam, its theology, its history, its place in the world, I began to question its dogmatism, and ask those questions that are forbidden; by a circuitous path, I came to Christianity, first, for a short time, to the religion of my baptism, until I began to learn Christian theology as well, and Christian history (it holds up much better than its Islamic counterpart under scrutiny), and learned that “non-Chalcedonianism” was not orthodox religion. So, understandably, I departed to the nearest counterpart, Orthodox Eastern Orthodoxy of the Greek rite. Continuing (as I still do) my study of Christian theology, history, and history of theology, I came to learn that the Bishop of Rome, was, and is, the Pope, with complete jurisdiction, at least in theory, from the New Testament times onward.
(This coincided with much of the Islamic influence I saw in Orthodoxy of both stripes, and much of the same anti-Western rhetoric that would be in place in either an Orthodox Church or a masjid; as well as certain dubious practices such as hesychasm, and the resultant incorrect essence-energies distinction of Palamas; the lack of church government, as the East is unable to call a council, but subscribes to conciliar government; an ossified tradition divorced from the activity of everyday life and practiced solely in prayer; the “fractured unity” of Orthodoxy; and, concludingly, the history that gave the lie to the assertion that the schism was the innovative, filioquean, heretical West from the unchanging Orthodoxy of the East, as the Orthodox had called ecumenical councils in all but name which affected the doctrine and practice of all of Orthodoxy, such as the Hesychast councils and Synod of Jerusalem.)
As in any subject, one learns more quickly at first than later, as one covers the basics, before one has to learn a specialty: thus, my foray to Orthodoxy didn’t last that long. I intended to become a Roman (Latin) Catholic (less than a year ago). I went to the local Melkite Church, and was received; but had no intention of becoming, or staying, a Byzantine Catholic, or “Orthodox in Communion with Rome”, but to become a Roman Catholic. (As the one aside in this short story, I memorized the entire Catechism, the hardcover white book with golden corners, believing it was necessary to become a Roman Catholic. If my English is stilted, it is because much of it comes from the Catechism, the Bible, books of theology, and some fiction.) To this day, I am canonically Melkite, and still keep up the struggle to obtain a transfer to the Latin rite.
The above can be expanded in to a book, but that’s the outline.
Short story of conversion (the long version can be pieced together from across the forum): I was baptized (or at least I believe I was, as I have no documentation nor living family/witnesses, but was told so at a young age, or at least remember being told so) in the Coptic Orthodox Church by a parent (in a typically American fashion) who never went to Church, but had her son baptized anyways. I never actually practiced Coptic Orthodoxy: I was raised after a very secular manner (parents were intelligentsia-socialists), until I took it upon myself to convert to the dominant Islam (for reasons, many likely psychological, that I have yet to and likely never will fully understand) around 11-13 years old. I was pious for a year or two. I backslid and became a secret atheist for a few years. (I had a brush with Mormonism towards the end of this time I usually leave out.) Eventually, circumstances conspired and I returned to Islam with absolute zeal.
As I actually learned of Islam, its theology, its history, its place in the world, I began to question its dogmatism, and ask those questions that are forbidden; by a circuitous path, I came to Christianity, first, for a short time, to the religion of my baptism, until I began to learn Christian theology as well, and Christian history (it holds up much better than its Islamic counterpart under scrutiny), and learned that “non-Chalcedonianism” was not orthodox religion. So, understandably, I departed to the nearest counterpart, Orthodox Eastern Orthodoxy of the Greek rite. Continuing (as I still do) my study of Christian theology, history, and history of theology, I came to learn that the Bishop of Rome, was, and is, the Pope, with complete jurisdiction, at least in theory, from the New Testament times onward.
(This coincided with much of the Islamic influence I saw in Orthodoxy of both stripes, and much of the same anti-Western rhetoric that would be in place in either an Orthodox Church or a masjid; as well as certain dubious practices such as hesychasm, and the resultant incorrect essence-energies distinction of Palamas; the lack of church government, as the East is unable to call a council, but subscribes to conciliar government; an ossified tradition divorced from the activity of everyday life and practiced solely in prayer; the “fractured unity” of Orthodoxy; and, concludingly, the history that gave the lie to the assertion that the schism was the innovative, filioquean, heretical West from the unchanging Orthodoxy of the East, as the Orthodox had called ecumenical councils in all but name which affected the doctrine and practice of all of Orthodoxy, such as the Hesychast councils and Synod of Jerusalem.)
As in any subject, one learns more quickly at first than later, as one covers the basics, before one has to learn a specialty: thus, my foray to Orthodoxy didn’t last that long. I intended to become a Roman (Latin) Catholic (less than a year ago). I went to the local Melkite Church, and was received; but had no intention of becoming, or staying, a Byzantine Catholic, or “Orthodox in Communion with Rome”, but to become a Roman Catholic. (As the one aside in this short story, I memorized the entire Catechism, the hardcover white book with golden corners, believing it was necessary to become a Roman Catholic. If my English is stilted, it is because much of it comes from the Catechism, the Bible, books of theology, and some fiction.) To this day, I am canonically Melkite, and still keep up the struggle to obtain a transfer to the Latin rite.
The above can be expanded in to a book, but that’s the outline.
M
Marybeloved
Guest
Trebor, I’m also curious about your own religious beliefs. You come off as a typically orthodox Christian (That is, with a small “o” and not referring to any of the Orthodox churches). I know you say you’re still working on that part- Mind sharing where you are in that regard? What’s your current leaning, if you don’t mind answering?
T
Trebor135
Guest
Test.
T
Trebor135
Guest
Thanks for your interest.Trebor, I’m also curious about your own religious beliefs. You come off as a typically orthodox Christian (That is, with a small “o” and not referring to any of the Orthodox churches). I know you say you’re still working on that part- Mind sharing where you are in that regard? What’s your current leaning, if you don’t mind answering?
Well, I’ve been in limbo for some months now. I bought a couple books and asked for some others for Christmas that I was hoping would aid me in settling the Catholicism/Eastern Orthodoxy dilemma. I haven’t been able to read them, partly because the ones I had didn’t scan so well (print books are inaccessible to me since I’m completely blind), and partly because the rest haven’t arrived (they were ordered online). When the school year ends, all the books should have come and the scanning can resume.
What I’d like to do is to read a general survey of the early church describing how councils worked and disputes were resolved. I’ve been pointed to Warren Carroll for material that purportedly fits the bill. Hmm, I’ll have to request that for my birthday…
What troubles me most is that, while I’m not aware of any informed Catholics or Orthodox who became Protestant because they discovered that theology to line up best with St. John Chrysostom and St. Augustine, well-read posters on these forums have become Catholic as well as Orthodox in light of their research into Early Church history. The issues dividing Catholics from Protestants are relatively easy to wrap one’s head around–sola scriptura, sola fide, Mary and the saints, sacramentalism. But the disagreements between Catholics and Orthodox seem so convoluted that no ordinary person should be expected to figure them out–the papacy, the filioque, original sin, Scholasticism/Hesichasm.
This whole situation nearly caused me to lose my faith in the past couple months; what rescued it were a Pentecostal friend’s recounting of a startling episode at church involving her personally and the argumentation/information set forth in various and sundry articles at The Christian Thinktank. I’m just worried that I may never know what path to take, given how difficult these questions are.
And my soul hangs in the balance, as do those of perhaps many around me who might be influenced by my choices: I’m one of the few practicing Christians among my family and friends. We could pray for the rapture to take place on May 21st this time around so my dilemma would become a non-issue!
I really do need a miracle here.
M
Marybeloved
Guest
Hi, Trebor.Thanks for your interest.
Well, I’ve been in limbo for some months now. I bought a couple books and asked for some others for Christmas that I was hoping would aid me in settling the Catholicism/Eastern Orthodoxy dilemma. I haven’t been able to read them, partly because the ones I had didn’t scan so well (print books are inaccessible to me since I’m completely blind), and partly because the rest haven’t arrived (they were ordered online). When the school year ends, all the books should have come and the scanning can resume.
What I’d like to do is to read a general survey of the early church describing how councils worked and disputes were resolved. I’ve been pointed to Warren Carroll for material that purportedly fits the bill. Hmm, I’ll have to request that for my birthday…
What troubles me most is that, while I’m not aware of any informed Catholics or Orthodox who became Protestant because they discovered that theology to line up best with St. John Chrysostom and St. Augustine, well-read posters on these forums have become Catholic as well as Orthodox in light of their research into Early Church history. The issues dividing Catholics from Protestants are relatively easy to wrap one’s head around–sola scriptura, sola fide, Mary and the saints, sacramentalism. But the disagreements between Catholics and Orthodox seem so convoluted that no ordinary person should be expected to figure them out–the papacy, the filioque, original sin, Scholasticism/Hesichasm.
This whole situation nearly caused me to lose my faith in the past couple months; what rescued it were a Pentecostal friend’s recounting of a startling episode at church involving her personally and the argumentation/information set forth in various and sundry articles at The Christian Thinktank. I’m just worried that I may never know what path to take, given how difficult these questions are.
And my soul hangs in the balance, as do those of perhaps many around me who might be influenced by my choices: I’m one of the few practicing Christians among my family and friends. We could pray for the rapture to take place on May 21st this time around so my dilemma would become a non-issue!
I really do need a miracle here.
Thanks so much for answering. I hope you finally get your books (and that they help). Might I suggest this, Trebor? That you commit this search for the fullness of Truth to prayer and that you ask God and lean on him, to guide you? Think about it- God knows ALL!
If you trust him with your search and your journey, somehow he’ll find a way to point you in the right direction at every juncture.Since you are looking into these two churches with great Marian traditions, might I suggest that you devote yourself in a special and personal way to Our Holy Mother? Speak to her as a small child and ask her to take you to Heaven- Do this everyday, my friend. Sometimes when we can’t find the truth using our limited abilities, all God expects from us is that we do our best and that we do it all for him, with him and in him.
Another thing- Every time you embark on this scholarly search for the truth, take time to say a prayer to God to guide you and to show you the truth and commit yourself to follow the Truth WHEREVER it may be. Reflect on the purpose of your search, which is (ought to be) to be fully in union with God in all the fullness that he intended for us- That is, to become a Saint.
God always answers such prayers and he’ll answer you. Perhaps you can’t get a break-through right now, because God wants you to give up self-reliance and start searching with him.
Please don’t let the search for the fullness of Truth discourage you from the true faith. Jesus Christ is the only way, the only truth and the only life- None come to the Father, except by him. Will be saying a prayer for you.
Peace.
C
Cavaradossi
Guest
Searching for the truth can be hard. Know that you are definitely not alone, as quite a few other posters here are in the same boat, trying to discern whether the Catholic Church or Holy Orthodoxy contains the truth. Have faith in the Lord that He in his compassion and loving kindness will lead you where you need to be.Thanks for your interest.
Well, I’ve been in limbo for some months now. I bought a couple books and asked for some others for Christmas that I was hoping would aid me in settling the Catholicism/Eastern Orthodoxy dilemma. I haven’t been able to read them, partly because the ones I had didn’t scan so well (print books are inaccessible to me since I’m completely blind), and partly because the rest haven’t arrived (they were ordered online). When the school year ends, all the books should have come and the scanning can resume.
What I’d like to do is to read a general survey of the early church describing how councils worked and disputes were resolved. I’ve been pointed to Warren Carroll for material that purportedly fits the bill. Hmm, I’ll have to request that for my birthday…
What troubles me most is that, while I’m not aware of any informed Catholics or Orthodox who became Protestant because they discovered that theology to line up best with St. John Chrysostom and St. Augustine, well-read posters on these forums have become Catholic as well as Orthodox in light of their research into Early Church history. The issues dividing Catholics from Protestants are relatively easy to wrap one’s head around–sola scriptura, sola fide, Mary and the saints, sacramentalism. But the disagreements between Catholics and Orthodox seem so convoluted that no ordinary person should be expected to figure them out–the papacy, the filioque, original sin, Scholasticism/Hesichasm.
This whole situation nearly caused me to lose my faith in the past couple months; what rescued it were a Pentecostal friend’s recounting of a startling episode at church involving her personally and the argumentation/information set forth in various and sundry articles at The Christian Thinktank. I’m just worried that I may never know what path to take, given how difficult these questions are.
And my soul hangs in the balance, as do those of perhaps many around me who might be influenced by my choices: I’m one of the few practicing Christians among my family and friends. We could pray for the rapture to take place on May 21st this time around so my dilemma would become a non-issue!
I really do need a miracle here.
Z
Zundrah
Guest
How sweet.
Z
Zundrah
Guest
How long would we last without doing so?
R
Reborn_in_Him
Guest
I have been in christian forums for years and among the iron sharpeners. It’s nice to find a time of refreshment and encouragement. Thank you and God bless you brother for the thread. We should not let offense color the love we should have for one another. Thank you for your sensitivity for that and offering apology…Here’s the thing, in spite of the differences it is the same Christ Jesus we trust for rebirth…The hot, lukewarm and cold sit among us all…Those passionate in their faith in Christ are bound by the same Holy Spirit no matter what the sign says at the front of the church…When we enter judgment as believers are works are burned not to see if we get to heaven but what the rewards.That gold, silver and jewels will not be awarded for being in the church with a certain sign out front but if we’re serving Christ in all our words, deeds attitudes and actions.The love of Christ radiating from us…Many times that is not reflected by our keyboards.
Here’s the thing, each day brings us closer to His return( either personally or corporately). We know as those days appear it will be times that will be harder for
those who desire to follow our Lord Jesus…Persecution could come to this country
in a heartbeat…We need to stop battling one another and start working together
to reach out to those who are apart from Christ…Being ready in season and out
to give testimony of the hope of Christ that lies within each who put their trust in him.
Timothy tell us to encourage each other even more so as we see the day of Christ appearing…Lets really be sensitive to those we can not see out on the web…We can debate one another with out telling or implying their not to bright or well studied. I’ve see personal comments to fellow brothers/sisters that really saddened me…Do you
know we are to esteem another as higher. Do you what I find interesting? I read
an article that a lot of Santorum’s support comes from the evangelical christians.
This even after remarks he made about protestants in Fl. Brethren it is high time
the unbelieving world see’s Christ because of our love for one another…A catholic
neighbor of mine would see me and say “I know you love Jesus”…
Lets learn to see the big picture when we post. Lord will my words be encouraging
or will they offend another in Christ…Our you lifted up when I post…Can the love I have for You Lord be seen in my word/deed…Grace and peace to you all , beloved by our Lord.
Here’s the thing, each day brings us closer to His return( either personally or corporately). We know as those days appear it will be times that will be harder for
those who desire to follow our Lord Jesus…Persecution could come to this country
in a heartbeat…We need to stop battling one another and start working together
to reach out to those who are apart from Christ…Being ready in season and out
to give testimony of the hope of Christ that lies within each who put their trust in him.
Timothy tell us to encourage each other even more so as we see the day of Christ appearing…Lets really be sensitive to those we can not see out on the web…We can debate one another with out telling or implying their not to bright or well studied. I’ve see personal comments to fellow brothers/sisters that really saddened me…Do you
know we are to esteem another as higher. Do you what I find interesting? I read
an article that a lot of Santorum’s support comes from the evangelical christians.
This even after remarks he made about protestants in Fl. Brethren it is high time
the unbelieving world see’s Christ because of our love for one another…A catholic
neighbor of mine would see me and say “I know you love Jesus”…
Lets learn to see the big picture when we post. Lord will my words be encouraging
or will they offend another in Christ…Our you lifted up when I post…Can the love I have for You Lord be seen in my word/deed…Grace and peace to you all , beloved by our Lord.
K
Khalid
Guest
Warren Carroll fits the bill extraordinarily well, but is very long - it would take over a thousand hours to listen to, I think (I am thinking of “A History of Christendom”, five vol.). Probably well over a hundred just to read.
Leo Donald Davis, SJ has “The First Seven Ecumenical Councils”, which is decent, but not nearly as comprehensive. Jaroslav Pelikan has “The Christian Tradition”, five volumes written from a Protestant-ecumenical perspective. Orthodox dissident theologian Vladimir Solovyev has “Russia and the Universal Church” (which deals with more than just Russia, but the entire Orthodox tradition), and an abridgment, “The Russian Church and the Papacy”, which are those parts that deal with the papacy. He’ll shove you firmly in to one camp or the other, and gets to the center of important issues about valid church government, namely, how can a church have government, if it subscribes to the conciliar model, but can not call a council?
Also, I do not know books on the issue, but look in to the major changes in Orthodox doctrine and practice that have been made since the schism (which occurred over about 700 years, starting with the Photian schism and completing in the 1450s, not 1054 like is always said), and the semi-ecumenical councils that have been convoked - the Hesychast councils, the Synod of Jerusalem, the Pan-Orthodox Synod of 1872 (which declared what is heresy if practiced by Slavs is orthodox if practiced by Greeks), etc.
Leo Donald Davis, SJ has “The First Seven Ecumenical Councils”, which is decent, but not nearly as comprehensive. Jaroslav Pelikan has “The Christian Tradition”, five volumes written from a Protestant-ecumenical perspective. Orthodox dissident theologian Vladimir Solovyev has “Russia and the Universal Church” (which deals with more than just Russia, but the entire Orthodox tradition), and an abridgment, “The Russian Church and the Papacy”, which are those parts that deal with the papacy. He’ll shove you firmly in to one camp or the other, and gets to the center of important issues about valid church government, namely, how can a church have government, if it subscribes to the conciliar model, but can not call a council?
Also, I do not know books on the issue, but look in to the major changes in Orthodox doctrine and practice that have been made since the schism (which occurred over about 700 years, starting with the Photian schism and completing in the 1450s, not 1054 like is always said), and the semi-ecumenical councils that have been convoked - the Hesychast councils, the Synod of Jerusalem, the Pan-Orthodox Synod of 1872 (which declared what is heresy if practiced by Slavs is orthodox if practiced by Greeks), etc.
M
Marybeloved
Guest
Hello, Khalid.
I’m also looking to read some Church History, but can’t afford to buy anything pricey right now. Is there anything decent that I can find on the net for free?
Thanks.
K
Khalid
Guest
Well, I think Philip Schaff’s “History of the Christian Church” is on the internet, but it is strongly Protestant-biased: everything before the Reformation is just a setup for the Reformation. Eusebius is on the internet, I’m sure, but he’s an ancient historian and only covers the first 350 years. I don’t know of anything else that could properly be called a Church History.
I think you can get all five volumes of Warren Carroll’s History for $70 on Amazon, or the first one (which will take the average person weeks or months to read) for $15. The five books of Jaroslav Pelikan (which, as the title indicates, are more of a history of doctrine) can be had for under $60, with most of the books $11.63 in price on Amazon (you can get some quite a bit cheaper used through Amazon).
One can tell a major point by the titles of the respective fourth books: Carroll’s “Revolt Against Christendom” and Pelikan’s “The Reformation”. Schaff’s is something like, “The Restoration of True Christianity from Against the Apostate Church”.
I think you can get all five volumes of Warren Carroll’s History for $70 on Amazon, or the first one (which will take the average person weeks or months to read) for $15. The five books of Jaroslav Pelikan (which, as the title indicates, are more of a history of doctrine) can be had for under $60, with most of the books $11.63 in price on Amazon (you can get some quite a bit cheaper used through Amazon).
One can tell a major point by the titles of the respective fourth books: Carroll’s “Revolt Against Christendom” and Pelikan’s “The Reformation”. Schaff’s is something like, “The Restoration of True Christianity from Against the Apostate Church”.
T
Trebor135
Guest
Indeed. “Dialect” is just the term I hear from Arabic speakers, whether my professor or other students. I’ve been learning MSA and Lebanese; I’ve found that I can talk to Egyptians in Lebanese but, for me to understand, they have to respond in MSA. It’s unfortunate that the varieties of Arabic spoken in Egypt, Lebanon, and elsewhere are held in such low regard…
Thanks for sharing (a summary of) your conversion story. I have some further questions:
- How did your family and friends react to your conversion and then reversion to Islam?
- How did an Egyptian living in his homeland, as I deduce you were doing, encounter Mormonism at all?
- What are “those questions that are forbidden”? What do you mean by Islamic “dogmatism”?
- How does “Christian history… [hold] up much better than its Islamic counterpart under scrutiny”?
- What led you to believe that “‘non-Chalcedonianism’ was not orthodox religion”?
- What books or historical events caused you to see that “the Bishop of Rome, was, and is, the Pope, with complete jurisdiction, at least in theory, from the New Testament times onward”?
- What elements manifest the great “Islamic influence [you] saw in Orthodoxy of both stripes”?
- What sort of “anti-Western rhetoric” did you hear from both Orthodox and Muslims? Do you hold that the energies/essences distinction is an Orthodox borrowing from Islam? How would you differentiate the Orthodox view of essences/energies from the Latin Catholic view of God?
- How did “the Hesychast councils and Synod of Jerusalem” bring about harmful innovation in Orthodoxy?
- Status