My brother has relationships with married women

[Tibusz]

My brother is seeing a woman whose husband has left her for another woman but she is still married to him. This woman also has three children.
Prior to seeing her, my brother was seeing another woman who was also still married to her husband.

We are a Catholic family and although we regretfully understand that marriages break down, cannot accept that my brother believes it is acceptable to date women who are still married, particularly when there are scores of single women out there who he could be seeing (he says that at his age, 43, there is nobody out there without history and baggage).

To be honest, even if they were divorced, I would find it very hard to accept her as my brother’s girlfriend and almost impossible to accept children who are not even my brother’s biological children but some other man’s.

Society (and the Church) tell us that we must forgive and not condemn. I often feel that the Church contradicts itself. On the one hand, we must be loving and forgiving of those who sin or lead lives contrary to our beliefs; on the other hand, we must not lead that kind of life ourselves.

I have seen relatives in similar circumstances who accept the life choices and partners of their various members because they feel they have no choice but to do so - that acceptance is then interpreted as “agreement” and even “approval” of those choices.

So I find myself in a similar situation. It is eating away at me so badly that it is affecting my life.

 

[tskrobacz]

My brother is seeing a woman whose husband has left her for another woman but she is still married to him. This woman also has three children.
Prior to seeing her, my brother was seeing another woman who was also still married to her husband.

We are a Catholic family and although we regretfully understand that marriages break down, cannot accept that my brother believes it is acceptable to date women who are still married, particularly when there are scores of single women out there who he could be seeing (he says that at his age, 43, there is nobody out there without history and baggage).

To be honest, even if they were divorced, I would find it very hard to accept her as my brother’s girlfriend and almost impossible to accept children who are not even my brother’s biological children but some other man’s.

Society (and the Church) tell us that we must forgive and not condemn. I often feel that the Church contradicts itself. On the one hand, we must be loving and forgiving of those who sin or lead lives contrary to our beliefs; on the other hand, we must not lead that kind of life ourselves.

I have seen relatives in similar circumstances who accept the life choices and partners of their various members because they feel they have no choice but to do so - that acceptance is then interpreted as “agreement” and even “approval” of those choices.

So I find myself in a similar situation. It is eating away at me so badly that it is affecting my life.

I suggest you turn the situation over to God and pray for guidance on how to be loving and supportive of your brother (and his girlfriend) while neither affirming nor condemning his choices. The mystics tell us that those that are the most broken among us, have the most to teach us…if we are willing to listen.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

My brother is seeing a woman whose husband has left her for another woman but she is still married to him. This woman also has three children.
Prior to seeing her, my brother was seeing another woman who was also still married to her husband.

We are a Catholic family and although we regretfully understand that marriages break down, cannot accept that my brother believes it is acceptable to date women who are still married, particularly when there are scores of single women out there who he could be seeing (he says that at his age, 43, there is nobody out there without history and baggage).

To be honest, even if they were divorced, I would find it very hard to accept her as my brother’s girlfriend and almost impossible to accept children who are not even my brother’s biological children but some other man’s.

Society (and the Church) tell us that we must forgive and not condemn. I often feel that the Church contradicts itself. On the one hand, we must be loving and forgiving of those who sin or lead lives contrary to our beliefs; on the other hand, we must not lead that kind of life ourselves.

I have seen relatives in similar circumstances who accept the life choices and partners of their various members because they feel they have no choice but to do so - that acceptance is then interpreted as “agreement” and even “approval” of those choices.

So I find myself in a similar situation. It is eating away at me so badly that it is affecting my life.

I totally understand not condoning adultery. What I can’t understand is how you wouldn’t be able to accept this women and her children if things ended up right. If she divorces, gets an annulment, and marries your brother; she wouldn’t be doing anything wrong. I would tell my brother to do things the right way, once it is being done properly, I don’t see where you should have a problem with this women. I don’t see how having a problem with the children does any good, no matter what your brother and their mother decide to do.

 

[Luz_Maria]

. . . . particularly when there are scores of single women out there who he could be seeing (he says that at his age, 43, there is nobody out there without history and baggage).

“[N]obody?” Really? A Sister, when I was in grade school, told the class to never say “everyone, always, never, nobody, etc., because we do not know if it is so.” Yes. There are out there men and women who are eligible for a Church Wedding and look forward to one. Most likely we all have a “history and baggage” of some kind or another. We are not in heaven yet.

You each are in my prayers.

 

[GenosFutureWife]

“he says that at his age, 43, there is nobody out there without history and baggage.”

Just some thoughts:
Certainly, everyone has a history, however some people are carrying less baggage than others. There are plenty of single women, all he has to do is go to church or to a dance… to find a single man that age is much more difficult…

The woman he is dating, sounds to me, like a very vulnerable, easy catch. Her husband gets off easy, while your brother gets to pick up the pieces.

The children are number one, and if there is no divorce, there also might not be child support… in some states divorce takes a while, and sometimes it is rather expensive. It would be good for your brother to know where in the process she is, and her reasoning for going slowly…she might have a somewhat logical reason, like putting in the time so she can get his social security later on. Although, I think if she was smart she would have gotten him for alimony for life because of his adulterous behavior… with her being with your brother, she messed that up… Taxes are going to be messy until things are finalized. Also, any joint anything is going to be problematic.

It’s all a big headache… once the newness wears off, he’ll realize that.

If he did choose a woman to be with who was single, he would have to work harder at getting her attention. He would have to straighten up some of his bad habits… He would have to consider growing up and getting married himself.

I think he is enjoying being immature, getting the sex without the responsibility of a commitment. And she’s in such a bad place that she’ll accept him, bad habits and all.

Relationships that start with people jumping in them because they’re lonely, and don’t know how to make it on their own, rarely turn out good. Whatever problems there were in her marriage, will probably resurface, as she hasn’t had time to heal…

They all need prayers, especially the children.

 

[SuperLuigi]

My brother is seeing a woman whose husband has left her for another woman but she is still married to him. This woman also has three children.
Prior to seeing her, my brother was seeing another woman who was also still married to her husband.

We are a Catholic family and although we regretfully understand that marriages break down, cannot accept that my brother believes it is acceptable to date women who are still married, particularly when there are scores of single women out there who he could be seeing (he says that at his age, 43, there is nobody out there without history and baggage).

To be honest, even if they were divorced, I would find it very hard to accept her as my brother’s girlfriend and almost impossible to accept children who are not even my brother’s biological children but some other man’s.

Society (and the Church) tell us that we must forgive and not condemn. I often feel that the Church contradicts itself. On the one hand, we must be loving and forgiving of those who sin or lead lives contrary to our beliefs; on the other hand, we must not lead that kind of life ourselves.

I have seen relatives in similar circumstances who accept the life choices and partners of their various members because they feel they have no choice but to do so - that acceptance is then interpreted as “agreement” and even “approval” of those choices.

So I find myself in a similar situation. It is eating away at me so badly that it is affecting my life.

Is it bothering you because you feel you have to intervene with correction or because you can’t stand to a brother do this or both?

Talk to a priest about this.

 

[EasterJoy]

My brother is seeing a woman whose husband has left her for another woman but she is still married to him. This woman also has three children.
Prior to seeing her, my brother was seeing another woman who was also still married to her husband.

We are a Catholic family and although we regretfully understand that marriages break down, cannot accept that my brother believes it is acceptable to date women who are still married, particularly when there are scores of single women out there who he could be seeing (he says that at his age, 43, there is nobody out there without history and baggage).

To be honest, even if they were divorced, I would find it very hard to accept her as my brother’s girlfriend and almost impossible to accept children who are not even my brother’s biological children but some other man’s.

Society (and the Church) tell us that we must forgive and not condemn. I often feel that the Church contradicts itself. On the one hand, we must be loving and forgiving of those who sin or lead lives contrary to our beliefs; on the other hand, we must not lead that kind of life ourselves.

I have seen relatives in similar circumstances who accept the life choices and partners of their various members because they feel they have no choice but to do so - that acceptance is then interpreted as “agreement” and even “approval” of those choices.

So I find myself in a similar situation. It is eating away at me so badly that it is affecting my life.

What do they say in Al-Anon?

“You Didn’t Cause It,
You Can’t Control It,
You Can’t Cure It.
BUT, You DON’T Have to Contribute To It.”.

The Church does not teach that you have to pretend that intolerable behavior is acceptable. You don’t throw pearls before swine–that is, you do not stir up strife that is not going to lead to repentance, but only to attacks on you–but the requirement that you love the sinner does not mean that you act as if sin doesn’t even exist. That is not what “thou shalt not judge” means! What it means is that you don’t hold yourself to be a better person that someone else who is falling to different temptations than the ones you have had to face.

As for the children, they have not done anything wrong. Children can come from a putative attempt at marriage that was not a valid attempt, and of course in that case their parents are free to marry. When that happens, the new attempt at marriage shouldn’t be held to be “second class.” In no case should a child be treated as second class, in any event. They usually have no say, and even if they did they do not have standing to appreciate the morality of their parents’ choices. (I’m not saying that you’re saying this, but when you say you “don’t accept” the children I hope you mean that you don’t accept that your brother is truly married to their mother, not that he does wrong in acting as a father to them when he is legitimately married to their mother.)

What the Church expects is not contradictory: we probably do it for ourselves all of the time. I mean that the Church teaches that making a harmful choice does not make the person into a bad person. It makes them into a person that need to change the choices they’re making, but a bad person can’t make good choices, right? So treat these people as ones that God sees with eyes to what they could be, what they ought to be, what they were made to be, and sees how they fall short only with sadness and the resolve that by grace they can renounce those choices and do better. Try to be a joyful and positive Christian, but encourage your brother to see that his choices are bad and that he needs to return to the truths he was taught as a child.

 

[pensmama87]

There is a man in my circle of college friends who constantly flirts with women who are unavailable - either exclusively dating, engaged, or married. I don’t know if he’s ever actually led a woman to cheat, but he’s admitted that he has this tendency. I don’t know why, although I have my theories.

Does this sound like your brother, OP? Is he actively seeking out women who are not available on purpose? That would be different than dating a woman who is estranged from her husband, although that’s still problematic. And if she’s divorced and her marriage has been found null, then there’s no moral issue at all.

Also, your statement on the children involved is bizarre. Would you feel this way about the children if your brother began dating a widow? As EasterJoy said, the children are not at fault for this situation whatsoever.

 

[lerapt78]

We are a Catholic family and although we regretfully understand that marriages break down, cannot accept that my brother believes it is acceptable to date women who are still married, particularly when there are scores of single women out there who he could be seeing (he says that at his age, 43, there is nobody out there without history and baggage).

True, it does get harder to meet single (never married) people as one gets older. May I ask, has your brother been previously married? Does he have children?

To be honest, even if they were divorced, I would find it very hard to accept her as my brother’s girlfriend and almost impossible to accept children who are not even my brother’s biological children but some other man’s.

It’s interesting that what you find hard to accept about her is her children born of another man. Personally, what I would find difficult to accept (if she were to remain in a relationship with your brother) is not her children, but her own personal character. I would be more against the relationship because of her adultery, and the fact that she would have traded in who was (possibly) a good husband for your brother. Her current decisions to engage in relations with a man who is not her spouse reveal more about her than her children do, IMO.

Society (and the Church) tell us that we must forgive and not condemn. I often feel that the Church contradicts itself. On the one hand, we must be loving and forgiving of those who sin or lead lives contrary to our beliefs; on the other hand, we must not lead that kind of life ourselves.

I agree the Church teaching can seem a little tricky, but it’s not really a contradiction if you understand the difference between condemning a person versus the sins that person commits. We have to forgive the individual, but that is not an impediment to condemning what that individual is doing, if it is immoral. You shouldn’t condemn your brother or this woman as people, but you absolutely have the right to condemn their actions, as they are wrong.

For example, condemning your brother as a person would be to disown, isolate him, or refuse to counsel him as a result of your disapproval. Condemning the woman as a person would be to say that she deserves no respect as a human being, or that you wish ill upon her, or want to see her suffer, etc. On the other hand, condemning their actions and cautioning against a relationship shows prudence.

Keep in mind as well, that the forgiveness the Church teaches is dependent upon the contrition of the sinner. Have either of them repented and vowed to commit to not repeating their sins, or do they instead revel in them?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

To be honest, even if they were divorced, I would find it very hard to accept her as my brother’s girlfriend and almost impossible to accept children who are not even my brother’s biological children but some other man’s.

How sad. That’s a very selfish attitude to have.

My brother married a beautiful woman (inside and out) who had four daughters from a previous marriage. I could have chosen to not accept them, although I’m not sure what good that would have done except drive a wedge between my only brother and I. Or, I could have accepted them and had my family grow by 4 awesome kids. And that’s what I did. I dove head first into being an aunt. I take the girls shopping, I celebrate their birthdays, they come to me for advice, and all in all I get to spend a lot of time with them and I love them very much.

 

[lerapt78]

How sad. That’s a very selfish attitude to have.

This may be off-topic, but. . . .

Interestingly, there have been three new posts started on CAF a few days ago by three new members (the OP included) that have been used as references in the “manosphere”. This particular thread was linked as an “update” in the comments section of a different website that chastised men who marry women (single or divorced) who have children.

Possibly, someone from the other website ((MarcusD, I’m referring to you.) is creating multiple CAF accounts and posting topics like these in order to get the “Catholic” response which they then link back to the other websites for everyone to shake their heads over how “feminist” Catholics are.

The other two new members whose threads were also linked to the other website are “soccerchick33” and “Angie9443”. They haven’t posted anything since their original OPs. I’m guessing that possibly neither of those members are actually women (or even Catholic).

In any event, I don’t find anything wrong with a single, childless man who prefers to be with women who do not have children. (I do however, think this is a decision every man can make for himself, and I also dislike troll posts that are used to mock the Catholic opinion to dating/relationships.) . This may be something women can’t understand well, but a lot of men seem to view this as a form of “cuckoldry”, even though technically, it isn’t. So what I guess Tibusz would reply (if he comes back) is that you view it differently, since you’re a woman.

I’m guessing this is the topic that Tibusz *really *wants us to talk about so he can report back to the anti-feminists.:ehh:

 

[KendraDZ1902]

This may be off-topic, but. . . .

Interestingly, there have been three new posts started on CAF a few days ago by three new members (the OP included) that have been used as references in the “manosphere”. This particular thread was linked as an “update” in the comments section of a different website that chastised men who marry women (single or divorced) who have children.

Possibly, someone from the other website ((MarcusD, I’m referring to you.) is creating multiple CAF accounts and posting topics like these in order to get the “Catholic” response which they then link back to the other websites for everyone to shake their heads over how “feminist” Catholics are.

The other two new members whose threads were also linked to the other website are “soccerchick33” and “Angie9443”. They haven’t posted anything since their original OPs. I’m guessing that possibly neither of those members are actually women (or even Catholic).

In any event, I don’t find anything wrong with a single, childless man who prefers to be with women who do not have children. (I do however, think this is a decision every man can make for himself, and I also dislike troll posts that are used to mock the Catholic opinion to dating/relationships.) . This may be something women can’t understand well, but a lot of men seem to view this as a form of “cuckoldry”, even though technically, it isn’t. So what I guess Tibusz would reply (if he comes back) is that you view it differently, since you’re a woman.

I’m guessing this is the topic that Tibusz *really *wants us to talk about so he can report back to the anti-feminists.:ehh:

Wow. Sneaky little trolls.

 

[lerapt78]

Wow. Sneaky little trolls.

Yep.

 

[Joseph73]

This may be off-topic, but. . . .

Interestingly, there have been three new posts started on CAF a few days ago by three new members (the OP included) that have been used as references in the “manosphere”. This particular thread was linked as an “update” in the comments section of a different website that chastised men who marry women (single or divorced) who have children.

Possibly, someone from the other website ((MarcusD, I’m referring to you.) is creating multiple CAF accounts and posting topics like these in order to get the “Catholic” response which they then link back to the other websites for everyone to shake their heads over how “feminist” Catholics are.

Anyone who truly knows Catholicism or has read from Timothy knows that Catholicism is anything but “feminist”, but instead holds up traditional femininity as the ideal.

As to the main point in the thread, the answer is simple: Love your brother and love any other people he brings into your life, but condemn the sin. Call a spade a spade. Behave consistently with Catholic principles. Otherwise you are an enabler. You must be a witness to the faith at all times.

 

[Cojuanco]

This may be off-topic, but. . . .

Interestingly, there have been three new posts started on CAF a few days ago by three new members (the OP included) that have been used as references in the “manosphere”. This particular thread was linked as an “update” in the comments section of a different website that chastised men who marry women (single or divorced) who have children.

Possibly, someone from the other website ((MarcusD, I’m referring to you.) is creating multiple CAF accounts and posting topics like these in order to get the “Catholic” response which they then link back to the other websites for everyone to shake their heads over how “feminist” Catholics are.

The other two new members whose threads were also linked to the other website are “soccerchick33” and “Angie9443”. They haven’t posted anything since their original OPs. I’m guessing that possibly neither of those members are actually women (or even Catholic).

In any event, I don’t find anything wrong with a single, childless man who prefers to be with women who do not have children. (I do however, think this is a decision every man can make for himself, and I also dislike troll posts that are used to mock the Catholic opinion to dating/relationships.) . This may be something women can’t understand well, but a lot of men seem to view this as a form of “cuckoldry”, even though technically, it isn’t. So what I guess Tibusz would reply (if he comes back) is that you view it differently, since you’re a woman.

I’m guessing this is the topic that Tibusz *really *wants us to talk about so he can report back to the anti-feminists.:ehh:

But Catholicism is feminist, in that believes men and women are of equal worth and dignity. If believing what Holy Mother Church believes makes me a feminist, I am a feminist, in other words.

Some may say, but that view is also shared by non-Catholics - but should it surprise us, if the Church tells the truth, that those outside the Church independently reach the same conclusion the Church does? Perhaps because, to rip off a well-worn political slogan, “reality may have a Catholic bias.”

And to the manosphere in all its creepiness, if you’re reading this, I have this to say: If you cannot accept women on the same basis as you, no matter what wrong they may have done previously, shame on you. Shame on you for divorcing yourself from reality.

 

[JMatthewA]

My brother is seeing a woman whose husband has left her for another woman but she is still married to him. This woman also has three children.
Prior to seeing her, my brother was seeing another woman who was also still married to her husband.

We are a Catholic family and although we regretfully understand that marriages break down, cannot accept that my brother believes it is acceptable to date women who are still married, particularly when there are scores of single women out there who he could be seeing (he says that at his age, 43, there is nobody out there without history and baggage).

To be honest, even if they were divorced, I would find it very hard to accept her as my brother’s girlfriend and almost impossible to accept children who are not even my brother’s biological children but some other man’s.

Society (and the Church) tell us that we must forgive and not condemn. I often feel that the Church contradicts itself. On the one hand, we must be loving and forgiving of those who sin or lead lives contrary to our beliefs; on the other hand, we must not lead that kind of life ourselves.

I have seen relatives in similar circumstances who accept the life choices and partners of their various members because they feel they have no choice but to do so - that acceptance is then interpreted as “agreement” and even “approval” of those choices.

So I find myself in a similar situation. It is eating away at me so badly that it is affecting my life.

It is a contradiction in many Catholic Churches in the USA but officially the Catholic Church actually approves of telling someone what they are doing is wrong in the eyes of God. We call it a spiritual work of mercy with the name “admonish the sinner.” It’s official and everything. Pope Benedict even mentioned it in 2012 during Lent (catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=13247).

 

[Joseph73]

But Catholicism is feminist, in that believes men and women are of equal worth and dignity.

That is VERY different from feminism. A lot of feminists get hung up on this. Patriarchy is what the real Catholic Church teaches, with wives subservient to their husbands and so on, and it is ENTIRELY CONSISTENT with women having equal worth and dignity. Submissive women are confident in their femininity- not trying to be bold and masculine, which is never what God designed them to be.

 

[severus68]

But Catholicism is feminist, in that believes men and women are of equal worth and dignity. If believing what Holy Mother Church believes makes me a feminist, I am a feminist, in other words.

Some may say, but that view is also shared by non-Catholics - but should it surprise us, if the Church tells the truth, that those outside the Church independently reach the same conclusion the Church does? Perhaps because, to rip off a well-worn political slogan, “reality may have a Catholic bias.”

And to the manosphere in all its creepiness, if you’re reading this, I have this to say: If you cannot accept women on the same basis as you, no matter what wrong they may have done previously, shame on you. Shame on you for divorcing yourself from reality.

Well said.

 

[severus68]

That is VERY different from feminism. A lot of feminists get hung up on this. Patriarchy is what the real Catholic Church teaches, with wives subservient to their husbands and so on, and it is ENTIRELY CONSISTENT with women having equal worth and dignity. Submissive women are confident in their femininity- not trying to be bold and masculine, which is never what God designed them to be.

It is a contradiction in terms to say subservient but equal.

The Church does not require women to be subservient to men. Being bold and confident are human attributes, not exclusive to men. The Church does not teach patriarchy.

This is all off-topic.

 

[Joseph73]

It is a contradiction in terms to say subservient but equal… The Church does not teach patriarchy.

I strongly disagree, but we’ll leave it at that.