My brother left the Church because of me

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Joe1 said:
He thinks I’m brainwashed, that’s probably why
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I’m beginning to think that his disregard for all things Catholic has nothing to do with you.

It really sounds like an emotionally abusive/gaslighting situation where he’s blaming you for his choice and would find a way to blame you (or another close person) even if you behaved exactly how he suggested
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
I’m beginning to think that his disregard for all things Catholic has nothing to do with you.

It really sounds like an emotionally abusive/gaslighting situation where he’s blaming you for his choice and would find a way to blame you (or another close person) even if you behaved exactly how he suggested
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He believes all religions are made from man. He’s an atheist. Never really liked the faith. I’m probably the big reason why he hates God. He said God is destroying me (even though it’s the opposite).
 
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Joe1 said:
He believes all religions are made from man. He’s an atheist. Never really liked the faith. I’m probably the big reason why he hates God. He said God is destroying me (even though it’s the opposite).
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So it’s an absolutely cruel and abusive thing for him to say that he left the church because of you. He never did anything of the sort. He’s trying to pin the blame for his own poor choices on you.

Everything that comes out of his mouth–that you’ve told us–is an absolute twisting and mockery of your own value as a human. He “hates” a God that he won’t profess to exist because of some overly-complicated view of his brother’s sex life?

What to the what now?

You need professional therepy to deal with this. Your brother is nuts.*

*not a diagnosis or medical advice. Just an off-hand commentary on the brother’s own viewpoint and words.
 
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Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
So it’s an absolutely cruel and abusive thing for him to say that he left the church because of you. He never did anything of the sort. He’s trying to pin the blame for his own poor choices on you.

Everything that comes out of his mouth–that you’ve told us–is an absolute twisting and mockery of your own value as a human. He “hates” a God that he won’t profess to exist because of some overly-complicated view of his brother’s sex life?

What to the what now?

You need professional therepy to deal with this. Your brother is nuts.*

*not a diagnosis or medical advice. Just an off-hand commentary on the brother’s own viewpoint and words.
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He’s not pinning all the blame on me. Just some of it. If that makes anything better. He once told me I was not the only thing that made him leave the faith. But I’m pretty sure I’m the underlying reason.

These fights that I have with him are horrible. One time he made cry (not the worst part). I need to see a therapist about this because I need to stop this. Your right about it all. If his faith could be destroyed by his own brother than I don’t think it was that strong at first.
 
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I would counsel patience and prayer – a great deal of both. It doesn’t sound to me like he left the Church due to your SSA. It sounds like he already has a great deal of baggage with the Church so take that into consideration.

I would also look into finding support from a well-regarded group like https://couragerc.org/ I just surfed by its website and I’m impressed.

The 5 Goals of Courage are noted as:
Code: 
Chastity
Prayer and Dedication
Fellowship
Support
Good Example/Role Model
Godspeed!
 
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Joe1 said:
He’s not pinning all the blame on me. Just some of it. If that makes anything better. He once told me I was not the only thing that made him leave the faith. But I’m pretty sure I’m the underlying reason.

These fights that I have with him are horrible. One time he made cry. I need to see a therapist about this. Your right about it all. If his faith could be destroyed by his own brother than I don’t think it was that strong at first.
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Joe what I am saying is that you are not, and CANNOT be an “underlying reason.” You living a celibate life CANNOT destroy another’s faith. Your sex life (or lack thereof) is between you and God.

If there was a poster here who said, “My big sister is infertile and she blames me for her losing her faith because I accidentally got pregnant at 15”

What would be your answer?

It should be…your sister needs counseling and you need professional help dealing with that nonsense. I’m pretty sure no sane person here–even one who could relate to the suffering of the big sister–would say that the little sister was really the cause of losing faith.

Your brother is a bully. He’s trying to manipulate you. If you can’t get professional help, at the very least you need to cut him off from these rants against you.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
Your brother is a bully. He’s trying to manipulate you. If you can’t get professional help, at the very least you need to cut him off from these rants against you.
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I agree entirely about stopping these rants. I dont want to hate my brother, but he makes fun of me, my faith, and choices that I make because of my faith. He gets annoying and it all needs to stop.

My parents also don’t really agree with me either but they try and understand

The sad part about this is, he is making this such a big deal, when I don’t think it is.
 
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There’s a huge gulf between “not agreeing” and being so cruel and manipulative it nears abuse. Perhaps because you don’t feel supported by your parents your bar is set very low. You need good help to learn the difference between simple adult disagreement (which it sounds like your parents do) and blaming all sorts of ridiculous things on how you choose to live.

It’s none of his business, quite frankly, what you do and do not believe. Who you do or don’t choose to date.

I have a friend with a true, discerned, vocation to the single life. And he’s straight as they come. There are many reasons people don’t have a mate. This whole drive for same-sex relationships to validate SSA is bizarre to me since so many straight people remain single on a daily basis.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
There’s a huge gulf between “not agreeing” and being so cruel and manipulative it nears abuse. Perhaps because you don’t feel supported by your parents your bar is set very low. You need good help to learn the difference between simple adult disagreement (which it sounds like your parents do) and blaming all sorts of ridiculous things on how you choose to live.
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I see. He also asked my youth minister if her son, would ever be gay, if he should be allowed to love, she said yes. In translation, he took it as a green light for me to be able to find a man. Which is not the case.
Out of all of this I hope he comes around and understands and just accepts it. That’s all.
 
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Joe1 said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
There’s a huge gulf between “not agreeing” and being so cruel and manipulative it nears abuse. Perhaps because you don’t feel supported by your parents your bar is set very low. You need good help to learn the difference between simple adult disagreement (which it sounds like your parents do) and blaming all sorts of ridiculous things on how you choose to live.
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I see. He also asked my youth minister if her son, would ever be gay, if he should be allowed to love, she said yes. In translation, he took it as a green light for me to be able to find a man. Which is not the case. I hope he comes around and understands and just accepts it. That’s all.
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He’s not going to come around.

He’s is cruel, again, to the point where I think it qualifies as emotional abuse.

I think that if you read about gaslighting and abusive personalities you’d realize how much in common they have with your brother.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
He’s not going to come around.

He’s is cruel, again, to the point where I think it qualifies as emotional abuse.

I think that if you read about gaslighting and abusive personalities you’d realize how much in common they have with your brother.
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I hope your wrong about him not coming around.

But anyway. Thanks for the advice
 
Hey Joe,

The other Joe, above, said a lot of the things I would say. I think it’s really really important to remember that your brother is 16. When my brother was 16, he was NOTHING LIKE he is today – he was an atheist, he was sexually all over the place, and he rebelled against everyone and everything. Today my brother is a peaceful Catholic with a wonderful family. People change. Our pushing hard against them can sometimes give them reason not to change, though.

He cares about you. He’s not crazy to be worried about how you will make it, as a guy with SSA in this culture, without getting a husband. Jesus is the life for you, but His Church is still working out the details about how to pastorally approach people like you and me. If your brother looks at individual Catholics and sees lots of things that are not loving to you, I think he may be seeing some of these things correctly – you don’t “lose” if you admit that. (For instance, I’ve heard some Catholics say that people with exclusive SSA can never be allowed to live with anyone else except their family, for fear of “near occasion of sin”. That sort of statement doesn’t demonstrate genuine love, at all, IMO).

Perhaps the best way to push back gently is simply to suggest that his views do not come from some Fount of Reason, but rather from a different sort of brainwashing.

To the question of whether he will come around, again, he’s 16. What he does in the future is anyone’s guess, but you two have a LOOOOOONG future, and the temptation is to put too much stress on the situation now. You’ll have to be patient with each other, and you can set the tone for that, Joe. Patience is perhaps the most characteristic aspect of God’s love for us, and it needs to be central in our love for one another, too.
 
I doubt you are really why he’s leaving/left the church ( you also say one of the reasons). If you are then, his faith wasn’t very strong, it’s an excuse, ignore it… as hard as it is. Leave him be for a little while so God can work with him. Pray for him and even get a mass intention for him if you are able too. I think if you start asking him why and fussing about him, you’ll only feed his anger. He needs to time to think about this, he probably admires you deep down and feels guilty he can’t do as you do. It is always sin or wanting to sin that drives us from the church, so if we can make others sin or feel guilty for not sinning and then cause them to sin we’d feel better about our own sin. Sorry to put it so bluntly, but if he can make you sin, he’ll feel less guilty about his own, so if you fuss and stress at him you show him he has a chance at winning you over. Instead, step back from him, remain calm and quiet and peaceful. ie ignore it and give him time to worry about his not being able to make you sin, then hopefully with God’s grace his own sin. Let God guide you when to speak with him and just be supportive loving and kind with no judgement. In the meantime pray for him. God bless. PS. I have no idea what SSA is if that makes anything I have said irrelevant 😉 I have not read all the posts, scrolling is a struggle, sorry. Ignore me if this makes no sense in light of that.
 
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Are you involved with the Courage apostolate? Perhaps your brother can find some support with the enCourage group as well.
 
Bluebright said:
I have no idea what SSA is if that makes anything I have said irrelevant 😉 I have not read all the posts, scrolling is a struggle, sorry. Ignore me if this makes no sense in light of that.
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That’s alright. Your correct about what you said. SSA means same sex attraction
 
Thanks for the link! Unfortunately it says I have to be 18 to join. I’m 16. But thanks anyway
 
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