my brother the wiccan sent me a wreath - help?

[blacktiger057]

Which part is untrue?

“I don’t care if his pentgram has 5 10 or 1000 points. It is still a demonic symbol that everyone would recognize at first glance (or as you might say confuse) as a devil worshippers symbol. I will not temp fate. my brother does not know any better. I do. the first image of wicca was a horned devil god but that was not bringing in the laides so they changed it to a goddess.”

You think WIccans are devil worshippers to? No, that would be satanists, but some don’t even worship the devvil anway. Really, the devil is a Christian idea, and they can keep him! But it still insults me when you say we are devil worshippers, because to you, the devil=evil. I think you need to grow up; calling someone’s peaceable traditions evil just because you don’t agree with them is very ignorant and shallow.

And actually, in ancient paganism, the ladies were honored much more than men. This eventually shifted to having the gods and goddesses, but then shifted again into that male has the dominance…So, originally, ancient forms of paganism were all about women. Again, please, please do some research before making such baseless claims!

And others have told you what the pentacle symbolizes, so I won’t say what they said again. It is used for balance and protection in Wiccan traditions, not evil. PLEASE READ A BOOK ON WICCA BEFORE YOU MAKE SUCH CLAIMS!

Also, the horned god was around before the devil, and represented the idea of divinity in nature. Once the horned god from the celts, lucifer, and satan (from hebrew traditions) were combined, they became they devil. So the idea for the devil was actually a perversion of one of the Celtic gods. Oh, and btw, that was not the first image of ancient paganism(you said Wicca, but I think that is what you meant).

 

[blacktiger057]

As far as tree worship…I think that it is impossible to accidentally worship anything. I will take the Wiccans assurance that they don’t worship trees if they agree that Catholics don’t worship statues.

If only it was that easy…I bet someone will say that Wiccans are being decieved by the devil so even if they say they don’t worship trees they still are, or something stupid like that.

 

[Pete_1]

Also, the horned god was around before the devil, and represented the idea of divinity in nature. Once the horned god from the celts, lucifer, and satan (from hebrew traditions) were combined, they became they devil. ).

got a source for this please?

The also Devil is mentioned in the Bible (do you mean the traditional ‘image’ of the Devil?)

 

[blacktiger057]

got a source for this please?

The also Devil is mentioned in the Bible (do you mean the traditional ‘image’ of the Devil?)

Yes, I do. The Celtic god, Cernunos(not sure of correct spelling, but it’s something like that) is known as the Horned God because he has horns. Celtic traditions, among other ancient pagan traditions, were around before Christianity. So, yes, the horned god was around before the idea of the devil. I’ll be happy to pm you on the history of pagan and christian religions if you want me to…Many Blessings!

 

[joanofarc3]

You think WIccans are devil worshippers to? No, that would be satanists, but some don’t even worship the devvil anway. Really, the devil is a Christian idea, and they can keep him! But it still insults me when you say we are devil worshippers, because to you, the devil=evil. I think you need to grow up; calling someone’s peaceable traditions evil just because you don’t agree with them is very ignorant and shallow.

And actually, in ancient paganism, the ladies were honored much more than men. This eventually shifted to having the gods and goddesses, but then shifted again into that male has the dominance…So, originally, ancient forms of paganism were all about women. Again, please, please do some research before making such baseless claims!

And others have told you what the pentacle symbolizes, so I won’t say what they said again. It is used for balance and protection in Wiccan traditions, not evil. PLEASE READ A BOOK ON WICCA BEFORE YOU MAKE SUCH CLAIMS!

Also, the horned god was around before the devil, and represented the idea of divinity in nature. Once the horned god from the celts, lucifer, and satan (from hebrew traditions) were combined, they became they devil. So the idea for the devil was actually a perversion of one of the Celtic gods. Oh, and btw, that was not the first image of ancient paganism(you said Wicca, but I think that is what you meant).

Please don’t equate Wicca with paganism. I was Wiccan, realized what mumbo-jumbo it was and practiced actual paganism. I then realized, through the Blessed Mother, that Christianity was in fact the truth, and so now I’m Catholic. My sister became Wiccan, became disgusted with it, and is now a pagan. I don’t need to read a book, it’s common sense. There’s a big difference between Wicca and actual paganism. I didn’t like it when I was told, I had to realize it on my own. Same with my sister, and the same will be for you. We can tell you all we want, but you will not hear the truth until you are willing to. I don’t mean to come off as judgmental and condemning. Like I said, I was there. I loved being pagan and I wasn’t a bad person. Same with my sister, and I’m sure it’s the same with you. I know how you feel, exactly how you feel. I’m speaking from experience, not hear-say. You’ll be in my prayers. God Bless.

 

[KarenNC]

And actually, in ancient paganism, the ladies were honored much more than men. This eventually shifted to having the gods and goddesses, but then shifted again into that male has the dominance…So, originally, ancient forms of paganism were all about women.

There were apparently some ancient religions that were focused primarily on goddesses, but far from all or even the majority.

Also, the horned god was around before the devil, and represented the idea of divinity in nature. Once the horned god from the celts, lucifer, and satan (from hebrew traditions) were combined, they became they devil. So the idea for the devil was actually a perversion of one of the Celtic gods. Oh, and btw, that was not the first image of ancient paganism(you said Wicca, but I think that is what you meant).

Satan was known in Jewish Scripture but not in the way that Christianity views him. beingjewish.com/basics/satan.html has a very interesting analogy to help illustrate this.

outreachjudaism.org/satan.html is also very informative.

Deities with horns are not uniquely Celtic. Pan, for instance, has horns. Herne the Hunter is in British mythology, Pashupati in Hinduism, Hathor in Egyptian, etc.

There is also the symbol of the horned cap in Near Eastern mythology ancientneareast.net/religion_mesopotamian/iconography/horned_cap.html

 

[KarenNC]

Seriously wrong. Remember the woman in the Gospels who was healed by touching the hem of Jesus’ robe? Jesus did not in any sense whatsoever ‘inhabit’ that piece of cloth. Rather, as He himself said, it was invested with some of His spiritual power (as distinct from being imbued with His actual presence or essence), being a sacred object. And He felt His power being transmitted through it. That’s how He knew she touched it even though He didn’t see her.

And that is not materially different from what I am saying. The spiritual power of God is not a separate thing from His presence or essence.

THAT is what we believe happens with statues that heal, cry or what have you. Not that God, Jesus or a saint inhabits those objects in any sense of the word, rather that they become imbued with a certain amount of God’s (never a saint’s - they have no power of their own) spiritual power which materially affects them - either for healing, for crying or what have you.

The only time your description would be even remotely accurate is with the Holy Eucharist. Even then it’s much different - Jesus certainly doesn’t ‘inhabit’ the bread and wine, he transforms them to the point where they are no longer bread and wine but actually become (apart from physical appearances) Himself.

So they “become Himself” without including any part at all of His essence?

I don’t believe there is as much difference here as you think. I have yet to meet a Neopagan, including Wiccans, who think that a statue is the sum total of a Deity or a Deity in and of itself, that they pray to the tree expecting that it will pick up its roots and do something. It is the tree as a physical manifestation of Divinity, a focus of intention or a point of communication with Divinity.

The Catholic does not believe that the wood of the statue is God whole and entire. The Neopagan does not believe the tree is either.

This is not merely a modern understanding. Celsus responded to exactly this charge when he wrote, “Who but an utter infant imagines that these things are gods and not votive offerings and images of Gods?” (Celsus, 170 AD, “True Doctrine,” Cels. 7.62; cited in “The Christians as the Romans Saw Them,” Robert Wilken, pg. 119, Yale Univ Press, 1984.)

 

[Celeste88]

Blacktiger, I am curious …so Wiccans don’t worship trees/nature but honor it…you believe in some kind of a god. What kind of a god do you believe in? Do you believe in the God of Abraham? the Trinity? Jesus? What exactly is the Wiccans version of God? And who do you pray to?

 

[Pope_Noah_I]

I say burn it…and send the ashes back in a box with a note that says “BEGONE FROM ME HEATHEN SCUM” in big, red font. But then again, that’s just me…

 

[peary]

Have a little fun with it! If it is really a beautiful piece of artwork, have it blessed by a priest, and/or sprinkle holy water on it and blessed salt. Then, hang it on the front door!

 

[TMC]

Just hang it up. Send him a nice note or give him a call, and forget about it.

Do you believe in Wicca? I have no idea if Wiccan people casts ‘spells’, but if they do, do you believe such things have power? Of course they don’t. There is nothing wrong with blessing it, but you don’t need to ‘counter’ some Wiccan spell which has no power in the first place.

To be afraid of this wreath is to suggest that there is some truth and power in the Wiccan religion. And don’t worry, you can’t accidentally participate in his religion by hanging his wreath. God knows your heart, and it doesn’t sound to me like you are wavering toward converting to his faith.

If you like the looks of it, hang it up. Say a little prayer for your brother’s well being and conversion, and forget about the rest.

 

[peary]

I just LOVE wiccan furniture!

 

[deb1]

I say burn it…and send the ashes back in a box with a note that says “BEGONE FROM ME HEATHEN SCUM” in big, red font. But then again, that’s just me…

Could make eating Thanksgiving dinner at your parents house a wee bit uncomfortable.

 

[guanophore]

Just hang it up. Send him a nice note or give him a call, and forget about it.

Do you believe in Wicca? I have no idea if Wiccan people casts ‘spells’, but if they do, do you believe such things have power? Of course they don’t. There is nothing wrong with blessing it, but you don’t need to ‘counter’ some Wiccan spell which has no power in the first place.

To be afraid of this wreath is to suggest that there is some truth and power in the Wiccan religion. And don’t worry, you can’t accidentally participate in his religion by hanging his wreath. God knows your heart, and it doesn’t sound to me like you are wavering toward converting to his faith.

If you like the looks of it, hang it up. Say a little prayer for your brother’s well being and conversion, and forget about the rest.

They have power over those who give them power. Paul gives a similar analogy when he is talking about Christians purchasing meat at the market that may have been offered to idols.

1 Cor 10:25-26
25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 26 For “the earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”

However, he speaks of the “weak conscience” of the brother who may be scanalized by this, and says that it is better to refrain from eating the meat if a brother believes it is wrong. This is the principle of expediency, giving up your freedom in Christ for the sake of one who is not as spiritually mature. One may know for himself that there is no demonic power in an item, but someone close to them with a less mature faith may be injured by their lack of concern.

 

[KarenNC]

They have power over those who give them power. Paul gives a similar analogy when he is talking about Christians purchasing meat at the market that may have been offered to idols.

1 Cor 10:25-26
25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 26 For “the earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”

However, he speaks of the “weak conscience” of the brother who may be scanalized by this, and says that it is better to refrain from eating the meat if a brother believes it is wrong. This is the principle of expediency, giving up your freedom in Christ for the sake of one who is not as spiritually mature. One may know for himself that there is no demonic power in an item, but someone close to them with a less mature faith may be injured by their lack of concern.

I can see your argument, but am not clear exactly how it applies in this situation. If the wreath were indeed hung about with pentagrams, heptagrams, chalices, athames or other symbols of whatever form of Wicca the brother practices, then there might be an argument that others seeing it hanging on the OP’s door might wonder at his lack of concern. However, he has simply described it as a plain wreath
" my brother sent me a wreath the kind made a garland that you hang on your doors for christmas. this one he made out of an old tree that we use to have lying around the house…he found a photo of us all around it. it was our christmas tree for 8 years or so."

Based on that description, it appears that not only is it innocuous in appearance, it is made from an old artificial Christmas tree. I am not aware that many Wiccans go around blessing wreaths made out of discarded plastic Christmas trees or that such are considered a sure sign of Wicca and therefore serve as a stumbling block to his neighbors?

I don’t hear a lot of folks saying around the holidays: “oh, I didn’t know the Johnsons were Wiccan…look at that fake pine wreath on their door”.

Honestly, it all sounds like a huge overreaction, as he has no idea whether any such blessing might have taken place or not. It does, however, make me wonder how many items he has given his brother over the years that have been blessed with holy water or in some Catholic ceremony without telling his brother about it in hopes of having a secret effect on the brother.

 

[down_under]

Just hang it up. Send him a nice note or give him a call, and forget about it.

Do you believe in Wicca? I have no idea if Wiccan people casts ‘spells’, but if they do, do you believe such things have power? Of course they don’t. There is nothing wrong with blessing it, but you don’t need to ‘counter’ some Wiccan spell which has no power in the first place.

To be afraid of this wreath is to suggest that there is some truth and power in the Wiccan religion. And don’t worry, you can’t accidentally participate in his religion by hanging his wreath. God knows your heart, and it doesn’t sound to me like you are wavering toward converting to his faith.

If you like the looks of it, hang it up. Say a little prayer for your brother’s well being and conversion, and forget about the rest.

There are good reasons for fear. The devil has real power in the world today. Sorry he is a real guy. As real as God. Satan does exist. He can give power to people who knowingly or not worship him. may people are decieved by this stuff. Wicca is based on satanism. That is not a theory. The man who wrote the book on satanism got his stuff directly from a book on satanism. he plagerised quite liberaly. wicca is based on satanism. That is dangerous stuff. and nothing to take to lightly. I blessed it with holy water as my priest told me claiming it as a creation for christ. I think I will hang it on the front door. my brother always was the centimental sort. now that the pagan influence is gone I can see it as just a gift.

 

[down_under]

Honestly, it all sounds like a huge overreaction, as he has no idea whether any such blessing might have taken place or not. It does, however, make me wonder how many items he has given his brother over the years that have been blessed with holy water or in some Catholic ceremony without telling his brother about it in hopes of having a secret effect on the brother.

0 exactly 0 items. I would not do that to my brother. He has to learn these things for himself. I tried to explain it to him once. but he is just not ready to leave. until he is there is nothing anyone can do to help him. Besides given his inlaws who claim to be good bible believeing christians who are born again, and then commit every evil and spitful act against him because they know his religious affilation he will never become christian. The example that has been put in front of his face is simply to hypocritical.

 

[estesbob]

I am a little confused about exactly what to do. My brother is an open wiken. He’s a litteral witch. anyhow they worship trees. they go out into the woods and do around a tree something close to what evangeliscals do before an alter. dancing and jumping and such.

here is the question my brother sent me a wreath the kind made a garland that you hang on your doors for christmas. this one he made out of an old tree that we use to have lying around the house. the chances of it being blessed at some wicken rite are pretty good. It however is seen as a emotional gesture by the family. he found a photo of us all around it. it was our christmas tree for 8 years or so. what do I do with that? Is it enough to have it blessed by a priest. does anyone know anything about this sort of thing. would it be a sin to hang it up? help

Sent him a thank you note with a rosary included.

 

[surfinpure]

I am no expert in Wicca, and neither am I one in demonology, however, I have read and find very interesting the book An Exorcist Tells His Story, by Father Gabriel Amorth, the chief exorcist in Rome. In the book he discusses, among many other things, the handling of cursed objects, as well as demonic attachment to an object or place (which he calls “infestation”). I don’t know whether a Wiccan “blessing” could act as a curse on an object, but it seems at least plausible that an object used in a pagan ritual could carry some unholy attachment.

IF you decide to keep this wreath (as it is, after all, YOUR decision), I would do at least two things:

1. Politely but directly ask your brother (there’s a novel idea!) if he has “done” anything to the wreath. If the answer is “no”, I would be inclined to believe him, as Wiccans usually never hesitate to tell you they’ve performed another ritual!
2. Obtain not just holy water, but exorcised water and salt and generously employ both of these substances on and around the wreath. I agree with the other posters that it also could not hurt to have a priest bless the wreath.

I commend you for treating this matter with the sobriety that it deserves and not simply shrugging it off as a whim.

Peace of Christ to you,

mary

 

[deb1]

1. Politely but directly ask your brother (there’s a novel idea!) if he has “done” anything to the wreath. If the answer is “no”, I would be inclined to believe him, as Wiccans usually never hesitate to tell you they’ve performed another ritual!

This is probably the best idea. Simply ask him if he blessed the wreath. If he asks why you are concerned, tell him that the wreath is special to you and you are considering getting it blessed by your priest. I think that he will be complimented that you care enough about something that he made to get it blessed.