My Catholic friend wants to be an Episcopalian.

  • Thread starter Thread starter twohearts14
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
That is somewhat the point of my signature of which you were curious about earlier. You responded to treatment. But if a hospital rejects those who are sick and who are not responding to the treatment given, they have less sick people in their midst and have a purer facility that’s for sure. Less sick people = less bacteria, viruses, germs, etc, and thus is purer. But if it means they are satisfied with that even if it makes the hospital smaller, just as a motel with a no vacancy sign as no room, small hospitals can end up having less rooms. Or rooms that are not filled while those sick who were expelled are still walking around sick.
Ah, I get it.

But the people who go to the hospital may not want to conform to the laws of medicine. They want to eat their cheesy fries and get the rx from the doctor: you’re just fine exactly the way you are! Eat what you want!

Sadly, that works to their detriment. They need to hear receive the pure medicine, even if it hurts.
 
I learned on Facebook today that one of my friends is formally entering the Episcopalian Chuch in a few months. I think he converted to Catholicism in high school from Anglicanism, but has decided now in his last year of college to become Episcopalian.

The weird thing about this is that he attends a traditional Catholic college and his mother, who was in the process of taking vows as an eremitic, appears to be supporting him. So do all of the friends who have replied to his post on Facebook. This seems odd to me. I remember that the Anglican Church had some kind of merger with the Catholic Church. Is it possible that something similar happened with the Episcopalians that I’m not aware of? That might explain why everyone is reacting so strangely to his decision.
Choice of a religion is a matter of a persons conscience. If my friend converted to another religion that they would be happy with I would support them also. It isn’t my place to tell others how to worship or what to believe. I accept people how they are, not the way I think they should be.
 
Choice of a religion is a matter of a persons conscience. If my friend converted to another religion that they would be happy with I would support them also. It isn’t my place to tell others how to worship or what to believe. I accept people how they are, not the way I think they should be.
But you don’t mean that they can believe anything, right? And worship any way they please, right?
 
I think your analogy is flawed. I think the better analogy is that some people may disagree with the treatment they are given and try to find a different hospital. It’s not that the hospital rejects them. The hospital is “purer” than it would be if it tried to treat everyone according to the treatment the patients wanted. That might make the hospital popular–until the patients started dying, of course.

Edwin
Well I have nothing against anyone thinking. And I suppose if the hospital doesn’t say it would like to be a purer facility even if a smaller one, your analogy works too. I think I’m just going to pray in either case whether the patients don’t respond to or don’t accept the treatment being offered, that they find healing at a hospital and leave it at that. Peace.
 
I personally think it would be just fine and dandy for a person to divorce and re-marry. I would love to celebrate with my many friends who have had failed marriages and have gotten a seeming new chance at love.

However, I know that Christ has proclaimed that divorce and re-marriage is adultery. And, as such, I concede that the problem is with MY point of view, and not with Christ’s (as if! :eek:) and therefore I conform my views to Christs, and I do not proclaim, “I think the -]Church/-] Christ got it wrong when he said divorce and re-marriage is adultery.”

Another example is I just can’t get my mind around the fact that if people are in love, want to marry, but do not want children, that they ought not marry. But that is what the -]Church/-] Christ has proclaimed regarding marriage.

And, thus, I conform my views to Christ’s and not think that I am right.

I can’t exactly understand why this is so…although I think I am starting to get it when one understands the profound implications of marital love and intentional sterility. They don’t go together. I get that.

I just can’t really bring myself to say, of my own accord, “Well, if you don’t want children, then you ought not get married.”
PR, I know you’re not sola scriptura and I don’t take everything literally myself but Jesus did say in Matt 19 except for fornication or unfaithfulness. I don’t know if any of your friends are divorced due to that reason or not. Anyway I want to let the thread get back to the Episcopal Church now.
 
Does your friend know the history behind this Church? Honestly, I don’t understand how any Anglican can remain in that church with the way it was founded. Henry the 8th, persecution and execution of those who remained loyal to the religion that Henry betrayed.
Anglican theology preceded Henry VIII. It really isn’t as simple as ‘Henry got mad at the Pope and set up his own religion.’

It’s a very simplistic view of the history of Anglicanism.
 
I am of yours too
Nothing much. I just think it’s unnecessary for people to post, “I haven’t read all of the posts on this thread, but I just wanted to say …”

IMHO: no need to apologize. Just contribute your thoughts to the thread. 🤷
 
PR, I know you’re not sola scriptura and I don’t take everything literally myself but Jesus did say in Matt 19 except for fornication or unfaithfulness. I don’t know if any of your friends are divorced due to that reason or not. Anyway I want to let the thread get back to the Episcopal Church now.
No, none of my friends are divorced for that reason. As far as I know, anyway.

But here’s the reason why divorce and re-marriage is adultery, and fornication is not an excuse to divorce:

catholic.com/quickquestions/if-jesus-made-an-exception-for-divorce-in-cases-of-adultery-why-doesnt-the-church

One other thing: if that’s what Jesus meant–then why wouldn’t everyone who wants to divorce “licitly” just cheat on his wife? Then he could say, “Well, Jesus said I could divorce you because I cheated on you!”.

Clearly, that would be a wacky exception for Jesus to make.
 
Conor already said, “Episcopalians are Anglicans. The Anglican Church is a worldwide communion of which the Episcopal Church is the US branch”.
Many Anglican churches have separated themselves from the Episcopal church. The Anglican Communion of North America would be one example. Episcopal no longer equals Anglican.

I’ve been to both.
 
One thing I will share though is I think out of all the mainline churches the UMC is doing the best, at least in the South where I live. In my city (which isn’t small it has about 120,000 people) there are 4 large UMC churches with an unknown number of smaller UMC congregations (probably about 10), while Presbyterians, Lutherans, and Episcopalians put together only have 8 churches. But the king here is, of course, the Baptists.
The UMC is unusual among mainline protestant churches in that it has yet to officially and institutionally accept and promote homosexuality. This is not due to lack of effort. But as I understand it what has stopped it has been the foreign vote. The UMC apparently has grown considerably overseas and those who were converted to Christianity have strangely seemed to take the teachings to heart and consider homosexuality to be the sin it clearly is. The American UMC church seems more than willing to accept homosexuality but loses the vote due to foreign converts. I have noticed several UMC churches and organizations defying the judgment and rule of their church by promoting homosexuality.
That being said, the problem of the Episcopal Church is not in its outreach program, but in its excessive inclusiveness. Of course, people of all walks of life are invited into the church. But you cannot attract them by preaching falsehood. If the Episcopal Church tolerates or advocates certain beliefs irreconcilable with Christianity, then that is the major problem.
Also if you take the message often taught by mainline protestant churches to heart there is no need for you to be in church. Since they have removed the seriousness and almost even the existence of sin there is no need to repair the soul. You don’t need a savior if you are not a sinner.
 
I’m sure numbers are down in the Episcopal Church as they are for all churches save maybe the Pentecostal movement. However, I don’t think you can speculate that the Episcopal Church is slowing dying because you have a few former Episcopalians in your parish anymore than I can say the Episcopal Church is thriving because a fourth of my parish is made up of former Roman Catholics. For good reasons or for bad reasons, people church shop.
Like your parish, my parish consists of many former Catholics, although I don’t know the percentages, but there is a significant number who joined for various reasons.

I think for the Episcopal Church, its not about numbers, rather its about people who are believers in the faith. They’d prefer to have a smaller church of believers as opposed to a larger church with a mixture of unhappy/non-believers/believers.
 
I think you are wrong. I think it’s going to remain fairly small, but it’s going to be a niche church for educated people who have moderate to liberal social and political views and love liturgical Christianity.

I find that prospect appalling, even though I sort of fit the niche (my views on abortion certainly don’t mesh with the dominant views in the Episcopal Church, but otherwise. . . )

Edwin
Thank you for your reply. I apologize for being so blunt earlier, I have nothing against the Episcopalian Church.

God Bless +
 
But you don’t mean that they can believe anything, right? And worship any way they please, right?
Yes, I do. I don’t tell others what to believe and I don’t reject them for their religion. I have a very good friend that is wiccan and that is fine with me.
 
@ KWR_1

“It isn’t my place to tell others how to worship or what to believe”

Then I wonder why Jesus went to all that trouble for us.

Just a thought.
 
Yes, I do. I don’t tell others what to believe and I don’t reject them for their religion. I have a very good friend that is wiccan and that is fine with me.
Is that really “fine” with you, that your friend is living without Christ?

My niece is wiccan and I pray for her a lot and fear for her soul. I don’t want her going to hell or missing out on a life with Christ, and neither do I want her leading her daughter right along with her. It breaks my heart.
 
Choice of a religion is a matter of a persons conscience. If my friend converted to another religion that they would be happy with I would support them also. It isn’t my place to tell others how to worship or what to believe. I accept people how they are, not the way I think they should be.
But you don’t mean that they can believe anything, right? And worship any way they please, right?
Yes, I do. I don’t tell others what to believe and I don’t reject them for their religion.
Well, that’s a bit different than what I said, KWR. I’m not proposing that you “reject them for their religion.”

Christianity preaches we should love everyone–not reject them.

However, when you state that it isn’t your place to tell others how to worship, that leaves you with no way to tell a white supremacist that his views are wrong.

And in your paradigm you have to accept a person’s beliefs who proclaims, “Our church preaches that women are intellectually inferior to men. And they certainly cannot sit in the same side of church as menfolk. We worship with the women serving the men”.

If you really believe your paradigm, what you are doing is allowing evil to thrive because you cannot identify any belief system as wrong or untrue.

That’s not what you* really* believe, right?
 
Like your parish, my parish consists of many former Catholics, although I don’t know the percentages, but there is a significant number who joined for various reasons.

I think for the Episcopal Church, its not about numbers, rather its about people who are believers in the faith. They’d prefer to have a smaller church of believers as opposed to a larger church with a mixture of unhappy/non-believers/believers.
I don’t think it’s about “believers.” Episcopalians are pretty happy to accept that folks who choose another church are believers!

It’s more about having the kind of church Episcopalians want–with beautiful liturgy and a “progressive” social/political slant.

That’s what makes it so disturbing–even though, on the liturgical question at least, I share this inclination!

Edwin
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top