The church has stated otherwise, it recognizes the degree of what a politician can do and mandates abortion be our priority issue. Why would they do this if the president had no role in it?You may not. But the fact that it is a question for debate demonstrates that voting is a matter of prudential judgement.
Yet, if Biden wins many countries will see an increase in abortion due to Biden canceling the Mexico City policy. Where we fund abortion worldwide. He will force his contraception mandate on religious people including the morning after abortion pill.I’m not an American so don’t face that task.
The bishops say you can only vote for pro-abortion politicians if you have a proportionate reason. I ask again what is your proportionate reason?You vote for the person or party who you judge will do the most net good.
abortion can still be restricted and has been to the point it is very difficult to get an abortion in some statesAbortion has been codified into law since 1973.
He said he will do away with the Hyde amendment which prevents paying federally for an abortion. This isn’t new and he says it enough since it is a change from his pastCan you point me to the Biden Campaign’s statement on expanding government funding via taxpayer dollars for abortion to cover all abortions?
No presumption, he has made abortion one-of the cornerstones of his agenda.Presumably upant is operating under the assumption that Biden would press his support of abortion further than he has officially stated
Not surprising, they say they are going to end poverty and help the poor every election and have done neither. Yet they have canceled the Mexico City policy and have finally came out as the party of the “nones”. It is the same old Democratic Party. Why would one support a politician who doesn’t at least try to do what he campaigns on?I’d not hold my breath that if Mr Biden is elected that he will push this repeal.
This strong insistence on only considering intrinsically evil actions is why the Pope said that no morals are negotiable. Intrinsic evil is not the only evil, nor is is by necessity the worst evil. Capital punishment is not intrinsically evil. However, using it for political purpose, in a genocide, or even unjustly is still evil. A gun in the home is not intrinsically evil. Killing someone in your family you hate is.You vote for the one who will do their best to abate the intrinsic evil,
See, I think the opposite is true. He voted for the Hyde amendment. So, I see the wording used as a way of “hyding” that he is not as vehemently pro-abortion as most of his party is. We will never know if he is not elected, and if he is, time will tell.Presumably upant is operating under the assumption that Biden would press his support of abortion further than he has officially stated.
Please provide link to church document requiring that one vote for a particular party or not vote for another particular party.The church has stated otherwise, it recognizes the degree of what a politician can do and mandates abortion be our priority issue. Why would they do this if the president had no role in it?
That’s what I said. Optimize the net good.The bishops say you can only vote for pro-abortion politicians if you have a proportionate reason.
Why are u asking me? I’m not recommending any voting course of action and nor am I having to make such a prudential judgement.I ask again what is your proportionate reason?
Yes, I believe this to be true based on his voting record. Prior to a year ago, I think all would have believed this.Are you saying that Biden opposes abortion relative to the rest of his party
Yet the bishop’s priority is abortion and why past popes said there are non-negotiables. Pope Benedict even used the capital punishment issue in one of his statementsThis strong insistence on only considering intrinsically evil actions is why the Pope said that no morals are negotiable.
So you don’t believe what he Says now? What about the Mexico City policy, do you think he will keep it?He voted for the Hyde amendment.
Issues my boy issues, you can’t vote for the Democrats because of their ant-Catholic intrinsic evil policiesPlease provide link to church document requiring that one vote for a particular party or not vote for another particular party.
As ST JP II says all social issues are false and illusory if the right to life is met with maximum determination, 600,000 dead babies won’t see any goodOptimize the net good.
You made a statement on who to vote for, you stated net good, there has to be a proportionate reason for this net good, whatever that isWhy are u asking me?
My position is based on his campaign statements about abortionI assumed he believes that Biden is more supportive of increasing access than would be suggested by simply opposing the Hyde Amendment.
Apparently he changed his mind and sold his position for his candidacyPrior to a year ago, I think all would have believed this.
I have a question of logic here. If the president is responsible for the number of abortions each year, then how many was Trump responsible for during his presidency? Therein is the rub. You cannot say the president is responsible for reduction in abortion without saying he is responsible also for those abortions that did occur, or else there is no logical consistency.As ST JP II says all social issues are false and illusory if the right to life is met with maximum determination, 600,000 dead babies won’t see any good
You know better, he has lived up to the requirement of doing what he can to abate the issue. Biden will expand it with his policiesTherein is the rub. You cannot say the president is responsible for reduction in abortion without saying he is responsible also for those abortions that did occur, or else there is no logical consistency.
If abortion needs to be illegal, then why would anyone vote for the party that is wholly dedicated to keeping it legal and paid for by taxpayers?Abortion needs to be illegal.
We do not get to directly vote for laws.why would anyone vote for the party
And we also both know that the 600,000 you mentioned will not be saved based on the outcome of this election. That is what I was responding to. Abortion will not end with a snap of the finger or the click of a ballot. Doing the most good we can is never as simple as a bumper sticker.Again you know this
You have a choice to reduce the 600,000 or expand abortion with laws allowing abortion until birth and paying for them.Doing the most good we can is never as simple as a bumper sticker.
One would hope a “Social Justice Committee” of a parish would not be endorsing the abortion party. There is no greater “social injustice” than killing.Suppose it were the Social Justice Committee with the opposite party?
The Bishops put out guidelines for Faithful Citizenship. That is different. Aligning with a specific party seems out of bounds to me.
I agree. Some churchman virtually make the Church a subsidiary of the Dem party.It seems prolifers are the only ones who get warned or restricted.
Incorrect.Bear in mind it’s not clear that any political party (typically gaining power with a thin margin) would have the capacity to much influence the course of evils such as abortion and SSM.
Terribly incorrect for a Catholic.For this reason, for the well intentioned , who to vote for is a matter of prudential judgement.
Anything can be debated, right or wrong. That doesn’t mean one can vote pro-abortion without sinning.But the fact that it is a question for debate demonstrates that voting is a matter of prudential judgement.
Surely hypocrisy has its limits somewhere. For a Biden voter to speak to anyone about the evils of abortion is well outside a reasonable limit for it.I sure hope that all who voted for Trump, and all who voted for Biden, will remember that the issue of abortion, like our faith, is something we have to continue to speak up for constantly among our friends and family, as much as is prudent and wise, to stand up for life where it will matter the most.
Yes, which will reduce more? Who would have thought that the rate of abortion would have dropped faster under Obama than it did under Trump? Then we have also lost 230,000 to COVID-19. Which candidate could reduce the number to die next year? The future remains unknown. As Magic 8-ball says, “Ask again later.”You have a choice to reduce the 600,000 or expand abortion with laws allowing abortion until birth and paying for them.
Defining sin is the role of the Church, and God is the only judge. The Church has said that voting in order to promote abortion is a sin. Adding to that with a twist is inappropriate.Anything can be debated, right or wrong. That doesn’t mean one can vote pro-abortion without sinning.
It’s inappropriate to leave out that the Popes have said it’s not okay to vote for the abortion candidate except for proportionate (equally grave) reason. In this election, there is nothing “proportionate” to killing upwards of a million children deliberately. Nor did the U.S. bishops make any distinction in saying abortion is the preeminent issue in this election.Defining sin is the role of the Church, and God is the only judge. The Church has said that voting in order to promote abortion is a sin. Adding to that with a twist is inappropriate.