My continuing marriage dilemma

[bear06]

Yeah the first time I read it, I took it this way too… and I couldn’t understand why you weren’t more alarmed… silly me for not reading carefully, when I went back it made sense, I was reading too fast!

It just shows I have some restraint because I really wanted to say “YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!” It’s all much clearer now.

I’d keep your son away from anyone who thinks they’re bi-sexual. That can only add to your headaches.

 

[jules11]

My husband did have a Dr. Jeryll and Mr. Hyde personality also until he was put on medications by his psychiatrist. The difference is amazing and I will be honest if he was not on medications, I would have to divorce him for it was living hell. I was always walking on eggshells and not knowing what will set him off in a tantrum of anger. It was horrible and I am so happy that those days are over, but many in family wanted me to divorce him. I saw something else that no one else did and that was the desire for him to change and not be this “monster” who he was. He really hated hurting me and many times just wanted to free me himself by a divorce. I know not everything can be written in this forum and it is so much more complicated. I know Jules.

All I can offer you is prayers and also tell you to try to come to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. Receive him often, daily if you can, and go to a Holy Hour if you are not already. He will help you out of this confusion of whether to stay married or not. I think that is what you are confused about, if I am wrong, I am sorry just let me know. I have been there also and prayed and prayed and felt the peace of Jesus to stay married and work it out. I am glad I did for we are much happier now. We still need to work on so much and I at times am so unhappy in this marriage, but I continue to pray in the hopes that things could get even better. I still know and accept that my dh can only go so far, but he has areas that he can still do better. For some reason he can’t seem to allow Jesus in his heart. He knows the Catholic Faith inside and out, but spiritually has problems.

Hang in there and keep doing what you can and pray, as I know you are, for your husband. I too will keep him in prayers.

Thanks Nana, I guess I am the most confused about how we both want the marriage so much but don’t really know how to improve things.
He read this book that explained something about one’s needs to have things their way which he said helped him. He wanted me to read it.
He also said to me on the phone yesterday that we need to come to some agreement about parenting. He thinks I allow the children to do too much too young.
It is very complicated but overall, he does want to improve and he does want to be a good husband and father.

 

[jules11]

Jules,you should invite,even insist that the both of you attend mass at least once a week,or better yet every morning to pray and receive communion together. Even if he says no at first,continue to insist that he go with you,and do not let your demand drop. What neither you or him or doctors are able to mend,God will be able to mend. If he prays and receives communion with you continually,his anger and headaches will be
quelled and he will not be able to continue to be hard-hearted toward you. Do this immediately.

We both go to mass each Sunday, not together though. I go to a Latin mass and he goes to an English one. I just could not go to any English mass here in Adelaide. They are full of abuses and are terrible.
We cannot go to daily mass. They are at 8.30am and he has to be at his school at that time. We used to pray the Rosary together every night but as we don’t live together we don’t do that now. I do go to Adoration once a week. That is very beneficial for me. He is a new Catholic and has not come to that point where he sees how important these things are. I’m sure with prayer and perserverance, we will get there.
Thanks so much for advice. I do hope and pray we can do more ‘religious’ things together. I think it is time, and more example from me that will change things for the better.

 

[jules11]

It just shows I have some restraint because I really wanted to say “YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!” It’s all much clearer now.

I’d keep your son away from anyone who thinks they’re bi-sexual. That can only add to your headaches.

I can’t believe that you didn’t say more then!!! That is so funny! If he was bi-sexual, I certainly wouldn’t be still married to him!

See, this was part of the argument. He cannot believe that I am not stricter with someone like this. The problem is, this guy started to come around, or so I thought, to be with all of us.He had no real family to speak of and just loved the family feel at my house. He would be helpful and fix things for me, do things, play with my young son. He liked my eldest daughter, but would come over even when she wasn’t here.
My daughter told my husband about what this guy had confided in her months ago… She told HIM before she told me!
My husband had taken a real dislike towards this guy without me knowing why. He was suspicious about him coming over so often and told me to tell him NOT TO.
I don’t like hurting peoples feelings, so I always asked him to ‘be nice’ if they were there together.
My husband told my daughter that she HAD to tell me or HE would. He was very concerned about him spending so much time with my 14yo.
Trouble is, he is a lovely, polite and helpful young man. He was this before I found out the other. Now, I cannot just tell him he is not welcome at my house anymore. How bad an example of Christianity would that be? And I don’t know him well enough to sit down and discuss this stuff with him.
So, all I can do now, is restrict my sons contact with him. Which seems so obvious to him and nasty.
Long, complicated story, but that is my husbands gripe with me. But he is over it now and has been wonderfully supportive and thougthful since the miscarriage.
Although these problems do come up regularly. This is the perils of being in a step-family. It is important for me that my children love and respect my husband. They do for the most part, but I often feel like the meat in the sandwich sometimes.
It’s hard.

 

[anthony022071]

We both go to mass each Sunday, not together though. I go to a Latin mass and he goes to an English one. I just could not go to any English mass here in Adelaide. They are full of abuses and are terrible.
We cannot go to daily mass. They are at 8.30am and he has to be at his school at that time. We used to pray the Rosary together every night but as we don’t live together we don’t do that now. I do go to Adoration once a week. That is very beneficial for me. He is a new Catholic and has not come to that point where he sees how important these things are. I’m sure with prayer and perserverance, we will get there.
Thanks so much for advice. I do hope and pray we can do more ‘religious’ things together. I think it is time, and more example from me that will change things for the better.

Then persuade him to go with you on Sundays to mass – to pray and receive the Eucharist together,whether at his church or yours,or another church. I know from my own experience that continual prayer and the Eucharist will quell anger,irritability,and the worst headaches. If he agrees to pray and receive the Eucharist with you continually,he will not be able to continue to show anger towards you. He will see you in a new light. Please do this.

 

[dulcissima]

Then persuade him to go with you on Sundays to mass – to pray and receive the Eucharist together,whether at his church or yours,or another church. I know from my own experience that continual prayer and the Eucharist will quell anger,irritability,and the worst headaches. If he agrees to pray and receive the Eucharist with you continually,he will not be able to continue to show anger towards you. He will see you in a new light. Please do this.

I hope that will be the case for Jules and her husband. I think it all comes down to sincerity. To be honest, in my domestic violence report, nearly every instance of abuse started out with “After we returned from Mass…”

 

[bear06]

I can’t believe that you didn’t say more then!!!

I just didn’t say more to you. Believe me, my husband got the brunt of my mistaken astonishment.

I’m not sure where Adelaide is but maybe you could look around in a neighoring area for a Mass that’s not full of abuses that you can attend together. Just a suggestion. Sunday is family day. While we do a lot together, if we had a week where this wasn’t possible, we always come together on Sunday for Mass.

 

[Breach_Repairer]

I will pray for God’s Grace to guide you.

I have always believed Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves His Church with wives obeying their husbands. The Marriage Bed is Sacred and not to be defiled. What God has joined together let no man separate. Does the hand say to the foot I don’t need you and cut it off?

Marriage therefore is not a Competition between Husband and Wife.
MARRIAGE is a CO-OPERATION between a Husband and Wife.

Each person of the marriage has a responsibility to own his or her part of any division of the marriage. If we don’t acknowledge our part we cannot go on to a successful marriage for a lifetime.

God will carry you in his arms of love because your burdens are too heavy. Jesus believes in you and knows you are weary and heavily burdened, so cast all your cares upon Jesus and the things of this world will grow strangely dim, in His light, and in His Glory and Grace. The Lord bless you and keep you. Amen

Respectfully yours,
Repairer of the Breach

 

[jules11]

I just didn’t say more to you. Believe me, my husband got the brunt of my mistaken astonishment.

I’m not sure where Adelaide is but maybe you could look around in a neighoring area for a Mass that’s not full of abuses that you can attend together. Just a suggestion. Sunday is family day. While we do a lot together, if we had a week where this wasn’t possible, we always come together on Sunday for Mass.

Adelaide is the capital of South Australia. Do you know where Australia is?
You’ve heard of us Australians right? We are way down at the bottom of the world!

Anyway, there is no mass anywhere in Adelaide that does not have some abuse of some sort. I just could not go to an English mass week after week. He loves the Latin mass too, but after all our troubles he was too self conscious about going. I am just going to pray that we are not divided on this, that some day he will come back to the LM with me.

 

[bear06]

Adelaide is the capital of South Australia. Do you know where Australia is?
You’ve heard of us Australians right? We are way down at the bottom of the world!

Anyway, there is no mass anywhere in Adelaide that does not have some abuse of some sort. I just could not go to an English mass week after week. He loves the Latin mass too, but after all our troubles he was too self conscious about going. I am just going to pray that we are not divided on this, that some day he will come back to the LM with me.

You don’t by any chance go to St. Michael’s?

 

[jules11]

You don’t by any chance go to St. Michael’s?

No. It’s called ‘The Holy Name’
Not actually heard of a St. Michael’s here in Adelaide.

 

[bear06]

No. It’s called ‘The Holy Name’
Not actually heard of a St. Michael’s here in Adelaide.

Good. How is it that the “The Holy Name” has a Latin Mass but an abuse filled Novus Ordo? What types of abuses?

 

[jules11]

Good. How is it that the “The Holy Name” has a Latin Mass but an abuse filled Novus Ordo? What types of abuses?

I haven’t been to a Novus Ordo for a long while, (oh except a few weeks ago. That was one time for the first time in a long time)
This was not so much the abuses… actually it’s probably the best N O mass here but it’s the lack of reverence on the part of the congregation. They talk all the way through it, TERRIBLE taped music, they hold coversations a minute before the mass starts, talking at the top of their voices as soon as it’s ended. We have NONE of that at the LM. I just don’t feel that I have even been to mass when I go to a N O. I don’t feel that I gain any graces at all. I could not go to a NO mass on a regular basis. My children would strongly protest.
We are renown tho, here in Adelaide as being a very bad diocese. We have had so much trouble with abuses in masses. Especially a few years ago when all the priests were doing the 3rd rite of Reconciliation around Easter time, although it was not allowed.
We have about 4 priests here that are orthodox and we are in a very sad situation. Been an uphill battle for many years.
The safest and best way to go, is attend the LM. Also, we love it.

 

[bear06]

I haven’t been to a Novus Ordo for a long while, (oh except a few weeks ago. That was one time for the first time in a long time)
This was not so much the abuses… actually it’s probably the best N O mass here but it’s the lack of reverence on the part of the congregation. They talk all the way through it, TERRIBLE taped music, they hold coversations a minute before the mass starts, talking at the top of their voices as soon as it’s ended. We have NONE of that at the LM. I just don’t feel that I have even been to mass when I go to a N O. I don’t feel that I gain any graces at all. I could not go to a NO mass on a regular basis. My children would strongly protest.
We are renown tho, here in Adelaide as being a very bad diocese. We have had so much trouble with abuses in masses. Especially a few years ago when all the priests were doing the 3rd rite of Reconciliation around Easter time, although it was not allowed.
We have about 4 priests here that are orthodox and we are in a very sad situation. Been an uphill battle for many years.
The safest and best way to go, is attend the LM. Also, we love it.

So it’s not really an abuse of the Mass, it’s the lack of reverence for the people there. Why don’t you just ask the pastor to ask people to be quiet? It’s a pain but at least you could attend Mass with your husband. Spiritual unity is a big part of marriage and sometimes it’s not an easy thing to do and it does inconvenience us.

 

[jules11]

So it’s not really an abuse of the Mass, it’s the lack of reverence for the people there. Why don’t you just ask the pastor to ask people to be quiet? It’s a pain but at least you could attend Mass with your husband. Spiritual unity is a big part of marriage and sometimes it’s not an easy thing to do and it does inconvenience us.

I don’t want to start a debate, but I really think that the NO is very bad for your spiritual life. I could not cope with it. It is something I just think is impossible for me to do. My children also, who are 18,16, 14 and 12 would just not put up with it. The LM has so much more depth and reverence. I just couldn’t go back to a NO.

 

[bear06]

I don’t want to start a debate, but I really think that the NO is very bad for your spiritual life. I could not cope with it. It is something I just think is impossible for me to do. My children also, who are 18,16, 14 and 12 would just not put up with it. The LM has so much more depth and reverence. I just couldn’t go back to a NO.

Well yes, this is a whole other debate. I kind of thought we were heading this way.

My children don’t get the say in where we go although they prefer our Church. Our ranking comes God, spouse and everyone else including the children next. My husband decides where we go and we will follow him. He is the spriritual head of the family and in the worst circumstances, he is our beacon.

As far as coping, if Our Lord can do it, I can be there with him if need be. It’s very important for our children to see us united in our spiritual life even if it’s just to see us united in our quietness while those around us are chattering.

 

[jules11]

Well yes, this is a whole other debate. I kind of thought we were heading this way.

My children don’t get the say in where we go although they prefer our Church. Our ranking comes God, spouse and everyone else including the children next. My husband decides where we go and we will follow him. He is the spriritual head of the family and in the worst circumstances, he is our beacon.

As far as coping, if Our Lord can do it, I can be there with him if need be. It’s very important for our children to see us united in our spiritual life even if it’s just to see us united in our quietness while those around us are chattering.

Actually it’s not the children who have a say. I have been attending a LM for 15 years now so they know nothing else. My husband was not a catholic when we met. He came to the church through me. I have been a catholic all my life. He has been one for 3 1/2 years. He has not tried to learn more about his faith or do anymore than go to Sunday mass. I am more the leader as far as religious things go. He did go to the LM with me for some years until we had a terrible time of things and his paranoia stopped him from going. He thought everyone knew everything about our troubles and to an extent this was somewhat true. I confided in a few good friends and he would not go from then on as he thought they were all judging him. It wasn’t the case but he will not go back.
But despite this, I just cannot go to a NO on a Sunday. I just could not. Impossible for me to do. I will pray that he will come back with me, but I cannot go there. It is actually what made me stop going at the age of 14, the NO. But that is MY personal reason and I am not saying that this opinion applies to anyone else. I do not believe that NO are not valid masses etc etc…I am not that extreme, but for me, just could not sit through what we have here week after week. Like I said, we have a terrible diocese here and when I go to a mass that has no talking before, during or after mass, no abuses, no terrible taped music, no altar girls… just beauty, reverence and devotion, why would I go anywhere else. I agree with you, God comes first. And in the LM, He does. I cannot put Him second to my husbands reasons for not going. They are just not good enough. But saying that, I do see your point. Ideally, it would be better if we attended the same church. But at least he goes. Better than a spouse that doesn’t go at all.
Thanks for your replies… I do appreciate them.

 

[dulcissima]

The suggestions I am going to make are only if you really believe in his sincerity in changing.

As the husband, he is the spiritual leader of the family. You can support him in this. You acknowledge that the NO is a valid Mass. Christ is truly present there. This is not a matter of putting God first. Can’t you understand how he might feel, since you did actually share your marriage problems with others at the TLM? I don’t think you should sweep away his feelings as being unimportant. Maybe you can attend the NO Mass with him, as a sign of your support for him, and you can endure the irreverant attitude around you, as simply your cross to bear, your sacrifice for your marriage. Just a suggestion.

 

[rayne89]

Jules I don’t know how to say this without coming across as harsh but it certainly isn’t how I mean it to be. The reason your husband stopped attending Mass with you is because you embarressed him by discussing your marriage problems with church members.
You won’t attend any other church because of your personal preferences in order to preserve family unity. That is what we are talking about -personal preference.

As long as the Mass is valid you are putting God first. Not going to a certain Mass because you don’t like it has nothing to do with putting God first. Jesus is present regardless of your feelings. To attend Mass as a family- sacrificing your preferred type of Mass in order to encourage your husband’s role as spiritual head of the household and show your children that you worship as family -is putting God first.Because your marriage and family are important to God. It also is a good example to your children by showing how important marriage is and what sacrifice means. This is your vocation.

I know your husband has issues. That being said, you seem to have your own issues with pride and stubborness. I know having a strong willed personality can cause havoc in a marriage because I have been there. I still have to keep my attitude in check because it’s a fault I will carry with me for the rest mylife (unless God chooses to remove it). Your husband can never begin to try to assume his position as spiritual head if nothing he ever does is good enough or holy enough. If the Mass he attends isn’t good enough, the books he reads aren’t good enough etc. If you are always right, or your choices are always better.

I sympathize because my hubby doesn’t seem to (in my eyes) take interest in growing spritually and it can be frustrating. I finally had to realize my husband’s spiritual life is between him and God, as long as he does what is required of him it’s not place to say it’s not enough. And I can not judge his relationship with God.

Even if you attend together once a month as family, that would be a start. If I was the reason my husband stopped attending our church (even if much of the reason was imagined) I would suck it up and follow him where to what Mass he wanted to attend (as long as it was valid). Even a happy-clappy NO. ( I attend a very reverent NO -they do exist actually.) And I would offer up my personal irratation for the good of my marriage.

And whether you “feel” graces or not has nothing to do with whether or not you recieve them. Grace is not about feelings. A valid Mass gives graces whether you feel it or not. Maybe even more so if God knows you are attending for the good of your marriage. Maybe you can’t “feel” the graces because you are distracted by noticing everything others are doing wrong. (I do this too at other Masses and I have to force myself to focus on the sacrifice of the Mass and not what is going on around me.)

I hate to come across as harsh because I know you are suffering so much right now. Anything I said to you someone else could have said to me about 10 years ago. And someone probably should have.

You and your husband have my prayers.

 

[anthony022071]

Jules,you said that you are more the leader as far as religious things go. Then persuade him to go with you to Sunday mass from now on,for the sake of the relationship. If he refuses to go to your church,then find a compromise church that both of you can tolerate. This is one of the best things you can do to save your marriage. You have to take the initiative,since he won’t.