My contrasting beliefs on advancing one's racial group

[DShreffler]

I have came back into the Catholic Church after…decades of not going. In that time I was once very liberal and participated in “peace activism” and I also was pro choice and volunteered at abortion clinics as an escort. As I grew older my political viewpoint changed gradually but eventually drastically. I began to see liberalism as very wrong along with multiculturalism and pretty much most of the changes that have taken place in our society since the end of World War Two. I began looking at things from a racial perspective with the understanding that white people like myself are in decline in percentages compared with the non-whites of the world which are reproducing at a much larger rate. I could go into the reasons WHY I began thinking about these things but they would just make for endless debate and that’s not my purpose here. I still feel that these things are hard for me to ignore as our society keeps changing at an alarming rate.
I have come back to the Catholic Church due to problems in my life that led to prayer and acceptance of Jesus Christ.
These two ideas seem in contrast with each other. I think about St Joan Of Arc who fought for her people and led people into battle. I think about how our society accepts black ministers who work for the advancement of their own kind and I also see the constant attacks on Christianity as part of this thing also.
Christ tells us to forgive which I understand, I just don’t know how he would respond to the conflict I have.
I have heard Fr. Mitch on EWTN say that racism is a sin but is advocating for your own kind’s advancement and security in this changing world one as well?

 

[DL82]

There should be no difference of races in the Church. That makes racism a sin, whether it’s positive or negative racism.

At the same time, there is nothing wrong (as I see it) with acknowledging that some people have, in the past, been excluded from equal participation in society, and that there may be a need to take positive action to redress that balance. It’s all about social justice and treating others (regardless of their race) as you would have them treat you.

 

[Eileen_T]

Racism, sexism, feminism, all BAD!!!

The Church is catholic. It encompasses everyone.

 

[Em_in_FL]

These two ideas seem in contrast with each other. I think about St Joan Of Arc who fought for her people and led people into battle. I think about how our society accepts black ministers who work for the advancement of their own kind and I also see the constant attacks on Christianity as part of this thing also.
Christ tells us to forgive which I understand, I just don’t know how he would respond to the conflict I have.
I have heard Fr. Mitch on EWTN say that racism is a sin but is advocating for your own kind’s advancement and security in this changing world one as well?

You’re “own kind” is the human race. ALL are created by the same God…

 

[JimR-OCDS]

DShreffler,
racism by definition is the hatred of another race, or believing that other races are inferior to your own.

Being an advocate for justice of your race, or other races, is not racism.

The Catholic Church is and has been and advocate for justice and equality for all races.

Jim

 

[DShreffler]

DShreffler,
racism by definition is the hatred of another race, or believing that other races are inferior to your own.

Being an advocate for justice of your race, or other races, is not racism.

The Catholic Church is and has been and advocate for justice and equality for all races.

Jim

Thanks for the responses. I will keep coming back to this one. Thanks Jim.

 

[puzzleannie]

if by advancing your race you mean advancing the well-being, security and spiritual growth in relationship with God of the human race you are right on. Other various racial classifications that have been proposed by sociologists, anthropologists and politicians are artificial constructs and have no relevance outside those spheres.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

There should be no difference of races in the Church. That makes racism a sin, whether it’s positive or negative racism.

So racism, which is, in part, giving preferential treatment based on race alone, is always bad no matter what…

Except…

At the same time, there is nothing wrong (as I see it) with acknowledging that some people have, in the past, been excluded from equal participation in society, and that there may be a need to take positive action to redress that balance. It’s all about social justice and treating others (regardless of their race) as you would have them treat you.

When that racism is done in a way as to redress a wrong it is okay? For how long is this reverse racism to go on?

Can’t have it both ways. Either it is always wrong or its not.

 

[JLSacred]

I think the poster is saying that non-white groups are able to promote their interests as a group, but this seems to be a no no for those of European descent, and is automatically viewed as racism. This is a double standard. For instance, it’s totally allowable to have a Black teachers association, a Hispanic nurses association, an Asian firefighters association. But, if a group of Caucasians wanted to have a group such as this, it would be automatically viewed as a White supremicist group.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I think the poster is saying that non-white groups are able to promote their interests as a group, but this seems to be a no no for those of European descent, and is automatically viewed as racism. This is a double standard. For instance, it’s totally allowable to have a Black teachers association, a Hispanic nurses association, an Asian firefighters association. But, if a group of Caucasians wanted to have a group such as this, it would be automatically viewed as a White supremicist group.

Not only that.

At the university I attend they offer scholarships and internship positions to Hispanics only. If there was a group that did this for Caucasians only there would be a huge outcry against it.

Double standard. Racism is okay as long as you are seen as a minority group.

 

[vluvski]

DShreffler,
racism by definition is the hatred of another race, or believing that other races are inferior to your own.
Jim

Actually the anthropological definition of racism is having a generalized opinion, positive or negative, of a certain demographic. That is why it is correct to say that a person who seeks to advance his race is a racist, regardless of how he feels about any other race and regardless of whether he does so to the detriment of other races.

The definition you have given is for racialism.

 

[mchale]

Not only that.

At the university I attend they offer scholarships and internship positions to Hispanics only. If there was a group that did this for Caucasians only there would be a huge outcry against it.

Double standard. Racism is okay as long as you are seen as a minority group.

Well in general, I think the basic issue is that in the United States, those of pure European descent have generally been the priviledged group. As a group, we have enjoyed advantages that other groups have not, and also, still retain a disproportional share of the wealth, education and management positions in companies. Usually, the argument for minority scholarships and other preferences is to help overcome the perceived disadvantage that a minority has. That being said, I think there are scholarships that target groups that are probably majority white. I doubt many people would take notice if a club like the Hibernians were to offer a scholarship to the child of a member (who by definition must be of Irish descent and Catholic).

–
Bill

 

[SeekerJen]

I have came back into the Catholic Church after…decades of not going. In that time I was once very liberal and participated in “peace activism” and I also was pro choice and volunteered at abortion clinics as an escort. As I grew older my political viewpoint changed gradually but eventually drastically. I began to see liberalism as very wrong along with multiculturalism and pretty much most of the changes that have taken place in our society since the end of World War Two. I began looking at things from a racial perspective with the understanding that white people like myself are in decline in percentages compared with the non-whites of the world which are reproducing at a much larger rate. I could go into the reasons WHY I began thinking about these things but they would just make for endless debate and that’s not my purpose here. I still feel that these things are hard for me to ignore as our society keeps changing at an alarming rate.
I have come back to the Catholic Church due to problems in my life that led to prayer and acceptance of Jesus Christ.
These two ideas seem in contrast with each other. I think about St Joan Of Arc who fought for her people and led people into battle. I think about how our society accepts black ministers who work for the advancement of their own kind and I also see the constant attacks on Christianity as part of this thing also.
Christ tells us to forgive which I understand, I just don’t know how he would respond to the conflict I have.
I have heard Fr. Mitch on EWTN say that racism is a sin but is advocating for your own kind’s advancement and security in this changing world one as well?

Are you an American?

Honestly, as a biracial American, your post alarms me a bit. There is certainly nothing wrong with being proud of your racial and ethnic heritage; in fact, it bothers me when people are ashamed of who and what they are. However, America does not have a defined racial or ethnic heritage, which is one of the things that makes this nation great. My father, born here of Mexican parents, is as much an American as my mother, also born here of Dutch-Canadian and Scottish-American parents. My husband’s ancestors are from Ireland, Germany, and Sweden, and he’s also 100% American. My best friend, who is from Vietnam, is a naturalized citizen and again, is fully American.

So: keep your ethnic traditions alive and celebrate them proudly? Of course. Attempt to make America into a “white” society? No thanks.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Are you an American?

Honestly, as a biracial American, your post alarms me a bit. There is certainly nothing wrong with being proud of your racial and ethnic heritage; in fact, it bothers me when people are ashamed of who and what they are. However, America does not have a defined racial or ethnic heritage, which is one of the things that makes this nation great. My father, born here of Mexican parents, is as much an American as my mother, also born here of Dutch-Canadian and Scottish-American parents. My husband’s ancestors are from Ireland, Germany, and Sweden, and he’s also 100% American. My best friend, who is from Vietnam, is a naturalized citizen and again, is fully American.

So: keep your ethnic traditions alive and celebrate them proudly? Of course. Attempt to make America into a “white” society? No thanks.

Agreed. Although my parents are both white, my mother is from Cuba, and I am far closer to her side of the family than my father’s. Hence, my background is heavily Cuban, and I consider myself a “white Hispanic” – a designation of which far too many people are ignorant.

I bristled at the OP’s statement that “multiculturalism” is a bad thing, for as I understand it, multiculturalism is the acknowledgment of our varied backgrounds. How on earth can that be bad? Only when this becomes the breeding ground for treating people of different ethnic, racial, or religious backgrounds differently – including giving them a “leg up” based on their heritage.

Peace,
Dante

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Actually the anthropological definition of racism is having a generalized opinion, positive or negative, of a certain demographic. That is why it is correct to say that a person who seeks to advance his race is a racist, regardless of how he feels about any other race and regardless of whether he does so to the detriment of other races.

The definition you have given is for racialism.

That’s a definition, but not the dictionary version, nor is it the definition held by the general public.

Jim

 

[deanarrca]

I should know better than to get into this fray, The one poster above mentioned several differnt senarios of ethnicity and that regardless of an individuals ethnicity they can be 100% American. Yes that is very much true!
Yes Multiculturalism can be good, but what I think a lot of people are concerned about is when one brings there homeland culture with them and refuses to assimilate to the Ameican culture. In otherwords they kind of want their own independent native country within America. For insatnce we all know there are many cities where English is almost a second language. But another example here in my school district there was a problem in the schools. Some muslims were upset because the School distric had Christian and some Jewish holidays off such as Christmas and Easter break. The muslims then wanted their children to not only have excused abscences for their religious holidays (which they currently had) they also wanted their holidays publically recognized and put on the school calendar. Well our school boards solution was then to take away and not recognize any school days off with religious holidays. So now we have Spring break which was 2 weeks ago no where near Easter.
So there are problems. In my opinion we are becoming less of a melting pot where every culture contributes something, to a society of several competing cultures. JMHO

 

[cavyqueen]

I agree that I am upset about our country’s moral decline. However, the modern problems in our country are the result of white liberals. White liberals started it and they ended up affecting blacks along the way. Before the liberal revolution in the 60’s African-American and African families were a lot more stronger, stable and moral. They had material poverty but were rich in ethics and spirit. Those modern problems facing too many black people today were no where near as prevalent in the past. My black grandfather is very concerned about this and has passed his concern on to me.

As far as my view on multiculturalism goes, I believe that you should be proud of and celebrate your heritage but at the same time be an American and be patriotic and assimilate. Black people are capable of doing this all at the same time and they used to until that bulldink Nationalist movement in the 70’s (By the way, Kwanzaa is FAKE. If you want to celebrate a real black holiday, celebrate the Juneteenth). Otherwise you’re just reinforcing and creating unneeded racial tension and self-segregating yourself. I believe the only exception should Indian Reservations because I feel it’s very important that they go to extremes to preserve their cultures since they are so endangered and virtually wiped out. And I don’t believe in separation of church in state. If Israel has the right to be a Jewish nation and Saudi Arabia has the right to be a Muslim nation, why don’t we have the right to be a Christian nation? I feel religious minorities should be welcome here but we shouldn’t repress Christianity in fear of offending them. They aren’t even offended.

Anyway, your post brings the point home to why I hate extremism. Be conservative enough that you have morals and standards but not so much that you’re narrow about things you shouldn’t be narrow about, like racism.

 

[JLSacred]

Cavyqueen-
First of all, blaming white liberals for the problems in the Black community is too simplistic. There are many complex factors in that, including going back to slavery, when families were routinely broken up at the whim of the slave master. White liberals were at the forefront of the civil rights movement that opened up alot more choices for minorities. Not to say that liberalism hasn’t undermined the morals in this country, but you can’t blame White liberals for everything.

As far as Kwaanza, who’s to say it’s fake? Just because it’s new, doesn’t mean it’s not real to Black people. So, it’s real. It was created by Black people to celebrate their African heritage. I don’t have a problem with that. Many Black folks seem to enjoy it. So, it’s real to them.

 

[Bennie_P]

Cavyqueen-
First of all, blaming white liberals for the problems in the Black community is too simplistic. There are many complex factors in that, including going back to slavery, when families were routinely broken up at the whim of the slave master. White liberals were at the forefront of the civil rights movement that opened up alot more choices for minorities. Not to say that liberalism hasn’t undermined the morals in this country, but you can’t blame White liberals for everything.

As far as Kwaanza, who’s to say it’s fake? Just because it’s new, doesn’t mean it’s not real to Black people. So, it’s real. It was created by Black people to celebrate their African heritage. I don’t have a problem with that. Many Black folks seem to enjoy it. So, it’s real to them.

Actually white liberals and vaious left wing groups highjacked the civil rights movement. Many had their hearts in the right place and the wall of racism had to brought down, but if I remember right it MLK that was leader of the civil-rights movement in the beginning. Cavyqueen might have simplified what she is trying to say, but she isn’t has far off as you might think. Today the one organization that was started by a women that wanted to control the “breeding” of miniortities now has a black spokeswomen (wow has she been brainwashed). That oraganization is Planned Parenthood, a white-liberal started organization for sure. Talk about an organization that wants to breakdown families, shoot it’s killing them.

White-Liberal politicians (there were no blacks in congress when they came up with this) were in forefront in pushing for welfare laws, which had this stupid idea that women and children had to kick out the husband and father from the home before they could any help from the programs. Talk about away to tear families apart, how is that compared to what slave owners did? In the name of liberation we continued to make the poor slaves to poverty, do you think?

As to Kawaaza I can’t speak much on that, but it was designed to compete with Christmas. What is that but a way to separate African Americans from Christian culture? Totally dreamed up by a college proffessor, but he is a black liberal.

Being an ex-white liberal I now see how much my views and actions hurt more then help those I cared about, or thought I should care about.

 

[cavyqueen]

Well, here are a few books that explain what I’m talking about:

amazon.com/White-Guilt-Together-Destroyed-Promise/dp/0060578637/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-9039647-6788765?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175268652&sr=1-1
amazon.com/Dream-Deferred-Betrayal-Freedom-America/dp/0060931043/ref=pd_sim_b_1/104-9039647-6788765?ie=UTF8&qid=1175268652&sr=1-1
amazon.com/Authentically-Black-John-McWhorter/dp/B000IOF05S/ref=pd_sim_b_4/104-9039647-6788765?ie=UTF8&qid=1175268652&sr=1-1

Things are NOT going as King planned. At all.

As far as Kwanzaa goes, where do I begin? The origins of Kwanzaa are inauthentic and even the man behind it who invented it, Ron Karenga, eventually admitted:

“People think it’s African, but it’s not. I came up with Kwanzaa because Black people wouldn’t celebrate it if they knew it was American. Also, I put it around Christmas because I knew that’s when a lot of Bloods are partying.”