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"47. Some recent theologians are of the opinion that the fire which both burns and saves is Christ himself, the Judge and Saviour. The encounter with him is the decisive act of judgement. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms and frees us, allowing us to become truly ourselves. All that we build during our lives can prove to be mere straw, pure bluster, and it collapses. Yet in the pain of this encounter, when the impurity and sickness of our lives become evident to us, there lies salvation. His gaze, the touch of his heart heals us through an undeniably painful transformation “as through fire”. But it is a blessed pain, in which the holy power of his love sears through us like a flame, enabling us to become totally ourselves and thus totally of God. In this way the inter-relation between justice and grace also becomes clear: the way we live our lives is not immaterial, but our defilement does not stain us for ever if we have at least continued to reach out towards Christ, towards truth and towards love. Indeed, it has already been burned away through Christ’s Passion. At the moment of judgement we experience and we absorb the overwhelming power of his love over all the evil in the world and in ourselves. The pain of love becomes our salvation and our joy. It is clear that we cannot calculate the “duration” of this transforming burning in terms of the chronological measurements of this world. The transforming “moment” of this encounter eludes earthly time-reckoning—it is the heart’s time, it is the time of “passage” to communion with God in the Body of Christ[39]. The judgement of God is hope, both because it is justice and because it is grace. If it were merely grace, making all earthly things cease to matter, God would still owe us an answer to the question about justice—the crucial question that we ask of history and of God. If it were merely justice, in the end it could bring only fear to us all. The incarnation of God in Christ has so closely linked the two together—judgement and grace—that justice is firmly established: we all work out our salvation “with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12). Nevertheless grace allows us all to hope, and to go trustfully to meet the Judge whom we know as our “advocate”, or parakletos (cf. 1 Jn 2:1). "
~ Pope Benedict XVI (and he was one of them).
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi_en.html
~ Pope Benedict XVI (and he was one of them).
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi_en.html
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There is yes the temporal punishment that can remain for sins. So if such remains after death such would be in purgatory (but yes not like hell!).
CCC 1498 Through indulgences the faithful can obtain the remission of temporal punishment resulting from sin for themselves and also for the souls in Purgatory.
1479 Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints, one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted.
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Jon_S_1
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"47. Some recent theologians are of the opinion that the fire which both burns and saves is Christ himself, the Judge and Saviour. The encounter with him is the decisive act of judgement. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms and frees us, allowing us to become truly ourselves. All that we build during our lives can prove to be mere straw, pure bluster, and it collapses. Yet in the pain of this encounter, when the impurity and sickness of our lives become evident to us, there lies salvation. His gaze, the touch of his heart heals us through an undeniably painful transformation “as through fire”. But it is a blessed pain, in which the holy power of his love sears through us like a flame, enabling us to become totally ourselves and thus totally of God. In this way the inter-relation between justice and grace also becomes clear: the way we live our lives is not immaterial, but our defilement does not stain us for ever if we have at least continued to reach out towards Christ, towards truth and towards love. Indeed, it has already been burned away through Christ’s Passion. At the moment of judgement we experience and we absorb the overwhelming power of his love over all the evil in the world and in ourselves. The pain of love becomes our salvation and our joy. It is clear that we cannot calculate the “duration” of this transforming burning in terms of the chronological measurements of this world. The transforming “moment” of this encounter eludes earthly time-reckoning—it is the heart’s time, it is the time of “passage” to communion with God in the Body of Christ[39]. The judgement of God is hope, both because it is justice and because it is grace. If it were merely grace, making all earthly things cease to matter, God would still owe us an answer to the question about justice—the crucial question that we ask of history and of God. If it were merely justice, in the end it could bring only fear to us all. The incarnation of God in Christ has so closely linked the two together—judgement and grace—that justice is firmly established: we all work out our salvation “with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12). Nevertheless grace allows us all to hope, and to go trustfully to meet the Judge whom we know as our “advocate”, or parakletos (cf. 1 Jn 2:1). "
~ Pope Benedict XVI (and he was one of them).
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi_en.html
(I deleted it above and re-posted it I wanted the other post of mine to be there first and then this one which gives such a beautiful approach.)
~ Pope Benedict XVI (and he was one of them).
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi_en.html
(I deleted it above and re-posted it I wanted the other post of mine to be there first and then this one which gives such a beautiful approach.)
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JimR-OCDS
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Bookcat
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Yes by us. But we also apply them to those who are being purified in purgatory.
1498 Through indulgences the faithful can obtain the remission of temporal punishment resulting from sin for themselves and also for the souls in Purgatory.
and
1479 Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints, one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted.
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JimR-OCDS
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Bookcat
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That post was not regarding the other person - I answered their post in other posts - I was simply noting that yes purgatory involves temporal punishments as noted in the Catechism in other places. Tis a clarification.
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Joe_5859
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And here I thought Jon was just so quick on the thumbs up that his post went before yours.
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Bookcat
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His real name is “Yoda”…he saw my post before I posted it…And here I thought Jon was just so quick on the thumbs up that his post went before yours.
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Jon_S_1
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:ROTFL:And here I thought Jon was just so quick on the thumbs up that his post went before yours.
I think it’s good to focus on the ideas that those in Purgatory have HOPE of heaven and hope is very powerful. They are also benefited by the prayers of the church which give great comfort.
I think the idea of a blessed pain is a very good one. Like getting surgery… Or a workout regiment. Painful but blessed pain.
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Sunbreak
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Well, many of us were taught in the old days that Purgatory was like Hell but you could get out eventually. The old Baltimore catechism never really said there was a pit there or fire, but did say there was suffering: “Purgatory is a state in which those suffer for a time who die guilty of venial sins, or without having satisfied for the punishment due to their sins.”
Now, that being said, I doubt that your daughter has been traumatized for life by hearing such a description of Purgatory. Many of us grew up with fierce images and we survived just fine.
Now, that being said, I doubt that your daughter has been traumatized for life by hearing such a description of Purgatory. Many of us grew up with fierce images and we survived just fine.
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Bookcat
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They are rather certain of heaven (beyond the real “certainty of hope”) …
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Jon_S_1
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True…good correction! Thanks.
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fnr
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Wow, thanks everyone for all the answers.
Rather than reply individually to all the replies, I will say that I plan to talk with my daughter’s teacher. I don’t want to say exactly how old my daughter is, but that she’s early in elementary school.
I am an apologist, so I think I can discuss the CCC with the teacher.
As to whether damage has been done, I am going to speak with her tonight and see if I can get more detail about what was said. I don’t think Purgatory needs to be scary, and hope I can help her get over her fear.
Rather than reply individually to all the replies, I will say that I plan to talk with my daughter’s teacher. I don’t want to say exactly how old my daughter is, but that she’s early in elementary school.
I am an apologist, so I think I can discuss the CCC with the teacher.
As to whether damage has been done, I am going to speak with her tonight and see if I can get more detail about what was said. I don’t think Purgatory needs to be scary, and hope I can help her get over her fear.
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Techno2000
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An Unpublished Manuscript on Purgatory
I can tell you about the different degrees of Purgatory because I have passed through them. In the great Purgatory there are several stages. In the lowest and most painful, like a temporary hell, are the sinners who have committed terrible crimes during life and whose death surprised them in that state. It was almost a miracle that they were saved, and often by the prayers of holy parents or other pious persons. Sometimes they did not even have time to confess their sins and the world thought them lost, but God, whose mercy is infinite, gave them at the moment of death the contrition necessary for their salvation on account of one or more good actions which they performed during life. For such souls, Purgatory is terrible. It is a real hell with this difference, that in hell they curse God, whereas we bless Him and thank Him for having saved us.
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6253
catholictreasury.info/books/treatise_on_purgatory/
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Dorothy
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I have that beautiful book about Purgatory by St. Catharine of Genoa. I bought it because it came highly recommended by Father Benedict Groeschel.
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mdgspencer
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This was not a good explanation. In fact, people won’t have bodies until the general resurrection of the dead.
But I think you should give the teacher some slack. Purgatory is not a happy place. In spite of the happiness of going to heaven, after, all, it is called purgatory, not heaven. Still, you should talk with the teacher and say her description of purgatory did not go over with you, and I expect she will correct herself in the future.
But I think you should give the teacher some slack. Purgatory is not a happy place. In spite of the happiness of going to heaven, after, all, it is called purgatory, not heaven. Still, you should talk with the teacher and say her description of purgatory did not go over with you, and I expect she will correct herself in the future.
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