My diocese is dying. What to do?

[Possenti2264]

I refuse to believe there is an adult Catholic alive who does not know the Catholic teaching on this subject. our enemies certainly do because it is one of the most prominent features in their attacks on us, so even if one did not hear the message from the pulpit, they could not avoid hearing the message. no fair blaming one’s own sin on someone else. Each Catholic who approached the age of dating and courtship should have heard the message loud and clear from their own parents, and did not because their parents contracepted.

A great number of Catholics here are converts from the Baptist faith, and no, they don’t know the teaching. A lot of people also base their understanding of Church teaching on gossip and rumors, “The church looks down on it, but it is allowed”. You know, the same kinda stuff that took Vatican II on a crazy acid trip into what we have now (but that’s another conversation for another day).

 

[Brendan]

Promote the use of altar BOYS.

In our parish, we use only altar boys. And every boy, from age 6 or so, to 18 is one.

Our pastor uses the program to teach them to be priests.

All boys are expected to serve at every Mass they attend. This means we have 70+ altarboys serving most Sunday Masses. But that is what would happen if there were 70 priests in attendance. They would all concelebrate.

It’s also easier on the parents, there are no altar serving schedules to worry about, the boys serve at the same Mass their family goes to, by definition.

Two of the older boys at each Mass are selected to Read instead of altar serve. This gives them the experience of being in front of the congregation, just as a priest would commonly read the Gospel.

In this way, the boys become very used to spending Mass in the Sancutary serving Our Lord at His Mass. It becomes normal for them, something they have experiences all their growing lives. So it is not a far stretch for them to see themselves continuing this for the rest of their lives.

Out of that, we generally have 1-2 men from our parish ordained to the priesthood EACH YEAR.

We have added 12 priests to the diocese in the last 10 years.

This is out of a parish that has about 800 registered families.

 

[laszlo]

1./ Pray to God for resolution

2./ If you are single male, consider priestly vocation

3./ If you have family or intend to have family consider to have as many children as God gives, and rise them toward priestly vocation. Same if you are grandparent. The vocation is the calling of the bishop before the ordination, that one have to be there to be called.

In long term the probable resolution will be to allow married men to be ordained as priest and serve the people, as it is in for the Eastern Catholics in Central Europe.

 

[Adeodatus]

I refuse to believe there is an adult Catholic alive who does not know the Catholic teaching on this subject. our enemies certainly do because it is one of the most prominent features in their attacks on us, so even if one did not hear the message from the pulpit, they could not avoid hearing the message. no fair blaming one’s own sin on someone else. Each Catholic who approached the age of dating and courtship should have heard the message loud and clear from their own parents, and did not because their parents contracepted.

Amazingly, I think there are a lot of adult Catholics who do not know the Church’s teaching on common moral matters. For example, I converted when I was an undergraduate at college. I was raised Baptist. At our RCIA, we really didn’t go into the Church’s teaching on a lot things. There was some theology in terms of discussing the Trinity and the Eucharist, but no “controversial” issues that I recall (I knew going in about the Church’s position on abortion). I had no idea about most of the teachings on sexual ethics, though. Just never heard about all that. Aside from some theological talk, RCIA was a lot of sitting in a circle talking about feelings, and stuff like “close your eyes and imagine that you are in the desert…”.

There was a time where it felt like I was often discovering new teachings that took me by surprise. When you live in secularville and have a Protestant background, who else is going to tell you all of this? And when you don’t hear about it in RCIA, you’re basically on your own.

There were a couple of “REALLY!?” moments. It happens. Starting out, I didn’t even know that Sunday Mass was an obligation.

 

[Possenti2264]

I know a lot of adults who have said that they consulted their priest regarding issues of having children, and those priests told them birth control was “frowned upon”, but allowed by the Church

 

[PaulinVA]

Who is in charge of vocations?

I am led to believe by many people that one’s vocation comes from God. So, why does this diocese not have enough priests?

Is God trying to call men and they are not listening? Is he not calling enough to get an acceptable response rate? What’s going on there?

 

[Pregustator]

Who is in charge of vocations?

I am led to believe by many people that one’s vocation comes from God. So, why does this diocese not have enough priests?

Perhaps because there aren’t enough Catholics in the diocese? Demographics might have more to do with the matter than vocations. Just how many Catholics actually reside within the territory of the diocese in question? Perhaps it needs to be merged with a neighboring diocese.

 

[Possenti2264]

It split from the neighboring diocese about 20 years ago. We are called a “mission diocese”.

One priest was appointed vocations director, but was replaced after two years. He is a good priest, but is not the most extraverted or outgoing priest. Now I’m not sure who is in charge of vocations.

It is difficult to promote vocations when so few priests really show what a priest should be. Lack of reverence in the Liturgy, absent from 99% of parish functions, bare minimum of sacramental functions. (Daily Mass isn’t even held outside of standard work hours).

 

[Pregustator]

I see. This thread really isn’t about a particular diocese, is it? It’s soap box for the woes of the contemporary church and liturgy.

 

[Adeodatus]

Sounds really tough, compa. Lots of prayer and suffering ahead. Did you start a thread over at the prayer requests subforum? Couldn’t hurt.

Do as much as you can with the EF. Even if the bishop doesn’t cooperate, you can still have one.

 

[Possenti2264]

This is about a particular diocese and the trouble my reasons why I think we are lacking in new priests.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Do the seminarians pay their own way through school?

Yes, and it is right up there with secular colleges. Older dioceses have endowed funds, but newer dioceses, like ours, have little to help them with.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

It split from the neighboring diocese about 20 years ago. We are called a “mission diocese”. . . .

It has been noted in some splits that there are a lot of clergy transfers in the year preceding the split. I have heard it suggested that some bishpos are averse to giving up their best men.

 

[laszlo]

Who is in charge of vocations?

I am led to believe by many people that one’s vocation comes from God. So, why does this diocese not have enough priests?

Is God trying to call men and they are not listening? Is he not calling enough to get an acceptable response rate? What’s going on there?

Everything what happens comes from God, but not everything comes immediately. For vocations the parents shall be the instrument in the hand of Jesus for the vocations. This was so traditionally, and this should be so today too.

The real problem for the lack of vocations is that parents do not see success in the priestly life, and the say: if God want my son, He will call him in time. God influences someone’s mind very rarely.

 

[mackk]

And, as mentioned above, strive to be an orthodox parish. If people want squishy, touchy-feely, liberal “Christianity”, there are plenty of dying Protestant denominations out there to choose from.

Places that are more orthodox are still growing. Check out the Dominican sisters in Nashville. They are growing year after year, and it doesn’t get more orthodox, more anti-“American-Idol-MTV-soap-opera Lifestyle” than the Nashville Dominicans. Young people know when some place truly has a heart for Jesus, and when a place “of the world”.

I have to agree …
I am Catholicism not because i want to be a “Christian” but because i want to be a CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN. The rites and structure are what attracted me.
other ideas …
make your presence known, folks can’t convert to a religion they don’t KNOW.
so any festival that is Catholic friendly in your area should have a table with literature and friendly folks who can answer questions at it.
ROSARIES Never hurt. the devotions on the rosary and the article itself inspires awe in even the crudest of us. free cheap rosaries with instructions printed on them will turn heads and hearts.
if you really want your church to survive … prayers won’t be enough you need acts as well.
i’m certain that there are others in your parish alone who are worried as you are … if you get together you would be surprised what you could accomplish.
//mackk

 

[Layman]

For vocations the parents shall be the instrument in the hand of Jesus for the vocations. This was so traditionally, and this should be so today too.

• What we should avoid, I think, is a situation where ‘The mammy had the vocation’. I’d guess the holier the house and the more childen, the more likely the vocation. But don’t pressurise the children.
• A previous poster made a very good point. Let only boys be altar servers and get all of them up there at one time or another.
• Also, have regular Adoration.
• Would it be fair to say it all flows from the Bishop? If he’s tradition-minded a lot of things that put men off would naturally either not arise or be stopped.

 

[CradleCath]

It split from the neighboring diocese about 20 years ago. We are called a “mission diocese”.

One priest was appointed vocations director, but was replaced after two years. He is a good priest, but is not the most extraverted or outgoing priest. Now I’m not sure who is in charge of vocations.

It is difficult to promote vocations when so few priests really show what a priest should be. Lack of reverence in the Liturgy, absent from 99% of parish functions, bare minimum of sacramental functions. (Daily Mass isn’t even held outside of standard work hours).

Been there! Seen that!! Had just about given up when we got a new Bishop. It is not happening overnight, even with our Orthodox Bishop, but liberalism was entrenched here. We now have 3 Latin Mass in our diocese & my own little parish (265 families) has given our diocese 2 priests last year & two more to be ordained this year. We celebrate both forms of the Mass in our parish, however at both forms the parishioners kneel for Communion. At the OF. we can take the Eucharist by hand or we can receive on the tongue.

I KNOW that traditional Catholicism is the key, but how to get there…well that takes a bit of doing. I’d start by reading this site:
ecclesiadei.org/Suggestions.htm

 

[CradleCath]

I have to agree …
I am Catholicism not because i want to be a “Christian” but because i want to be a CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN. The rites and structure are what attracted me.
other ideas …
make your presence known, folks can’t convert to a religion they don’t KNOW.
so any festival that is Catholic friendly in your area should have a table with literature and friendly folks who can answer questions at it.
ROSARIES Never hurt. the devotions on the rosary and the article itself inspires awe in even the crudest of us. free cheap rosaries with instructions printed on them will turn heads and hearts.
if you really want your church to survive … prayers won’t be enough you need acts as well.
i’m certain that there are others in your parish alone who are worried as you are … if you get together you would be surprised what you could accomplish.
//mackk

You are right & the suggestions you’ve given are good ones. However, we ought to let our OP. know that he is likely to be shunned by his fellow Catholics if he gets on the “Traditional bandwagon”. Our traditional Bishop was persecuted (& no, that word is not too strong) by NCR., by both the liberal clergy & liberal laity for 3 years. He got rid of many “ministries” of the laity & appointed priests to their positions.

Our parish had the Latin Mass for two years before we dared list it on our parish board that sits in front of the Church. Not one other parish in my city will even mention the fact that we have a Latin Mass, a Communion rail & an actual CONFESSIONAL. Any promotion of our traditional, faithful parish is done by word of mouth.

I love your idea about setting up a table with info. & small rosaries. Most Catholics here have no idea that Tradition is available to them, but all of our parishes have Ice Cream Socials, Auctions, fundraisers, etc. I think we’d have to get permission from the pastor of the parish to set up such a table, though, & that’s not going to happen for a while.

Whomever dares to rock the boat further will not be a popular Catholic in my city. While they wouldn’t face beheading like our first Catholic martyrs, their social contacts with many Catholics would disappear. Is it worth it? I think so, but people need to know what they’re facing.
:stretcher:

 

[Joe_Kelley]

• . . .
• Would it be fair to say it all flows from the Bishop? If he’s tradition-minded a lot of things that put men off would naturally either not arise or be stopped.

I recall reading that a bishop someplace asked what was needed to get more vocations and was told “A bishop who qualifies for canonization.”