My disillusioned marriage (UPDATE)

[Augusta_Sans]

Those are nice, but you’re missing the mark

Enlighten me.

 

[FrenchGwen]

But the playfulness and all that sometimes takes a good 2 or MORE years to get to. I have said it before in these forums and I’ll say it again, I believe for MOST couples, the first year of marriage is THE hardest. My first year was utterly miserable, well make that the first 18 months to two years actually. And the sexual chemistry, and getting all of that ‘down’ so that we were in sync with each other took that long too.

I wish I had read you a year ago, when I still felt I was alone in the “miserable 1st year of marriage desert”

I think what you’re hearing people remember is how they are looking back on their relationship in the early years, which isn’t necessarily how it actually WAS. 20 years out you may fee nostalgic because of what you’ve become together and the times you’ve gone through, but time has a way of making memories look rosier than they really were literally, kind of like women forget the pain of childbirth; you have to if you’re going to move on in life. Just becasue someone tells you they had fun playful close loving times early in marriage, doesn’t meant they also didn’t have hard, distant, struggling times.

, too !

 

[Augusta_Sans]

More baby steps.

We’ve been dialoguing every day. Last night we learned that we both were terrified to learn how to drive. It was fun for us to learn something new about each other after all this time. It’s heartening to know that, no matter how well you know someone, there’s always something more.

I thought that we were expert communicators (you might remember my reluctance to attend Retrouvaille–“what do WE have to learn?”) but we’re finding out that we were excellent at discussing things but not feelings.

We’re also kind of p(name removed by moderator)ointing the things that spiraled out of control. Basically, we’re discovering that even though we were best friends, we were still living our lives as “married singles.” We always thought that the best marriages were built on the best friendships, but we didn’t really know (and still don’t know) how to take it beyond “just friends”. I’m hopeful that we’ll learn.

He’s reading Holy Sex now. When I read it, I marked the pages that were most interesting to me, so as he reads, we’re discussing both the ones that intrigue him as well as the ones that intrigued me. We’re both excited to learn that, to Catholics, sex is more than “tab A in slot B = orgasm.” Last night’s dialogue question was “what goals do you hope to accomplish over the next few months.” He said that he would like to resume our sexual relationship and have me move back home.

 

[crazzeto]

I’ve been mostly lurking your progress as (being inexperienced) I don’t have a whole great bunch to add. But I would just like to say how heartening it has been seeing your progress, I can’t tell you how happy it makes me reading about all the progress you and your husband are making! Seeing people take marriage seriously like you and your husband, and actually fight for it is the most amazingly wonderful thing to watch.

Thanks so much for coming here, sharing with us all, and faithfully acting on the excellent advice others have given you!

 

[FrenchGwen]

More baby steps.

We’ve been dialoguing every day. Last night we learned that we both were terrified to learn how to drive. It was fun for us to learn something new about each other after all this time. It’s heartening to know that, no matter how well you know someone, there’s always something more.

That’s great !! and yes, you’ll know, THAT’S the thing: there is no end to what one may discover when actually listening to his spouse: the more you know, the more there is to know. It is soooo beautiful to realise that, should you, any day, get the impression that you’ve “seen it all”, you just need to really sit together, get the talking on again, and… bam, you’ll see new things !

I thought that we were expert communicators (you might remember my reluctance to attend Retrouvaille–“what do WE have to learn?”) but we’re finding out that we were excellent at discussing things but not feelings.

HAHAHA ! Again, I’m sooooo seeing myself / ourselves in your situation. When attending a Marriage Encounter weekend a few months before our wedding, we put “communication” as one of our good points. Now I can’t help laughing at it from today’s perspective !

We’re also kind of p(name removed by moderator)ointing the things that spiraled out of control. Basically, we’re discovering that even though we were best friends, we were still living our lives as “married singles.” We always thought that the best marriages were built on the best friendships, but we didn’t really know (and still don’t know) how to take it beyond “just friends”. I’m hopeful that we’ll learn.

Yes !!! :thumbsup:You’ve got it ! It actually takes time to really “get married” in your mind: before you really learn to no longer think in terms of “I”, but “we” : not “I’m tired, for ME the best solution would be…”, but “ok, I’m tired, but he may be too… and for US the best solution would be …”. It’s a process. Processes take… time.

He’s reading Holy Sex now. When I read it, I marked the pages that were most interesting to me, so as he reads, we’re discussing both the ones that intrigue him as well as the ones that intrigued me. We’re both excited to learn that, to Catholics, sex is more than “tab A in slot B = orgasm.” Last night’s dialogue question was “what goals do you hope to accomplish over the next few months.” He said that he would like to resume our sexual relationship and have me move back home.

Great, too… and actually, reading good books together and talking about one’s feeling and reactions to them is SUCH a great way of tackling sensitive topics in a more open, listening way !

GO ON …

 

[that_name]

Last night’s dialogue question was “what goals do you hope to accomplish over the next few months.” He said that he would like to resume our sexual relationship and have me move back home.

To avoid the sin of scandal, it would be prudent to marry civilly before you resume a sexual relationship.

 

[joandarc2008]

foreplay…foreplay…foreplay…

That is all I have to say. I am pleased you are still working at it and remember that when you first learned to drive you probably also did not know the break from the um clutch.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

To avoid the sin of scandal, it would be prudent to marry civilly before you resume a sexual relationship.

I am not sure what the process is here since they have a divorce, however, no annulment (correct me if I missed that) so aren’t they still married in the eyes of the Church? I cannot speak to what the steps necessary (from the Catholic Church’s perspective) to “be married again” and resume a sexual relationship. Maybe someone would enlighten me?

 

[crazzeto]

I am not sure what the process is here since they have a divorce, however, no annulment (correct me if I missed that) so aren’t they still married in the eyes of the Church? I cannot speak to what the steps necessary (from the Catholic Church’s perspective) to “be married again” and resume a sexual relationship. Maybe someone would enlighten me?

As far as the Church is concerned they’re still married, so no scandal as far as the Church is concerned. I can’t speak for people outside the Church, but given today’s attitudes towards sex I doubt there would be a scandle there.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

As far as the Church is concerned they’re still married, so no scandal as far as the Church is concerned. I can’t speak for people outside the Church, but given today’s attitudes towards sex I doubt there would be a scandle there.

That is what I was thinking…sorry to derail the thread for a moment.

 

[GoBison]

You seem to be doing good Augusta.

Couple questions for you.

Why did you decide to reconcile with your husband?

How did you know he would still be there waiting for you?

What kind of contact did you have after the divorce or type of relationship?

For my own info Thanks

 

[Augusta_Sans]

Why did you decide to reconcile with your husband?

I began entertaining the idea of reconciling with him in October (which is why I came here and posted my original post.) I don’t know exactly when it turned from an idea into a goal.

How did you know he would still be there waiting for you?

We talk almost every single day and wear our hearts on our sleeves. I knew he still loved me and wasn’t even considering dating anyone else.

What kind of contact did you have after the divorce or type of relationship?

We were best friend before, during, and after. Our biggest problem is we were never anything but best friends throughout our entire courtship, marriage, divorce, and aftermath. After the divorce, we were still each other’s emotional support on all matters NOT related to our relationship. We both avoided talking about our feelings about our dissolved marriage.

 

[Augusta_Sans]

Another little update. We continue to go to the Retrouvaille post sessions (2 down, 4 to go.) I am a little annoyed with the process, but am committed to it. I do not like dialoguing or discussion my feelings (feels like a waste of time), though I really enjoy reading and talking about his feelings so I do look forward to that. I think sharing his feelings with me is liberating for him. He always seems so relieved when I understand him–like what he’s feeling is “okay” because another human being listened and understood.

Physical intimacy (kissing, hugging) feels less awkward and we both feel like we’re communicating better than before. He expressed that the most hurtful thing that I had done (both during our marriage and after our divorce) was avoid scheduling time with him in advance. It made him feel like I was waiting for something better to come up. Now I am making a point to schedule time with him, including going to mass together every Sunday, Retrouvaille Saturday mornings, and his hockey games Sunday nights.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I see this as a continuation of a pattern you need to break.

You like the dialoguing because it lets you know what he is feeling.

But you don’t like it because you don’t like talking about your feelings. So you are inclined to prefer things based on how it makes YOU feel. You think if you don’t want to do it it’s a waste of time.

Consider that dialoguing is helpful to HIM because he is getting insight into how YOU feel. Do it for that reason.

It’s NOT a waste of time. It’s a method of repatterning how you see each other and communicate. It’s a very systematic way of doing so. Keep with the process. You’ve already grown in intimacy in ways you probably dont’ realize yet.

 

[Augusta_Sans]

True. I don’t like it. But I’m doing it anyway. I don’t know how to magically make myself like something I do not like. I thought the whole point you people were trying to make is that I should do things for the good of the marriage, even if I do not like to do them. Now you’re saying that I MUST enjoy something? HOW?!

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Sometimes we find something unpleasant because we don’t see a purpose in it. But when we look at certain tasks in the larger view, they don’t seem so useless. Like running a house. No one likes to clean bathrooms. Is that a reason not to do it? But if you look upon it as an act of love for your family, keeping them healthy and keeping the home sanitary, it helps one do it. Somewhere along the line our society began teaching that if we didn’t enjoy doing something then we weren’t obligated to do it.

But when we see the enjoyment it brings to others, we can learn to enjoy what we are doing for them.

It’s like the prayer of St. Francis:

"It is in giving that we receive. "

The more we lose ourselves, the more we find ourselves.

 

[Augusta_Sans]

Sometimes we find something unpleasant because we don’t see a purpose in it. But when we look at certain tasks in the larger view, they don’t seem so useless. Like running a house. No one likes to clean bathrooms. Is that a reason not to do it? But if you look upon it as an act of love for your family, keeping them healthy and keeping the home sanitary, it helps one do it. Somewhere along the line our society began teaching that if we didn’t enjoy doing something then we weren’t obligated to do it.

But when we see the enjoyment it brings to others, we can learn to enjoy what we are doing for them.

It’s like the prayer of St. Francis:

"It is in giving that we receive. "

The more we lose ourselves, the more we find ourselves.

Please reread the following:

I am a little annoyed with the process, but am committed to it. I do not like dialoguing or discussing my feelings (feels like a waste of time), though I really enjoy reading and talking about his feelings so I do look forward to that. I think sharing his feelings with me is liberating for him.

To recap:

• Talking about MY FEELINGS feels like a waste of time.
• I enjoy talking about HIS FEELINGS.
• I am ANNOYED with the process but I am COMMITTED TO IT.

Now, spell out for me what I am doing that is NOT consistent with your advice. You’re saying that there is something wrong with me (a “pattern * need to break”) because I do not take great joy in “cleaning the bathrooms.” I feel like I am TRYING. I am DOING everything I have been told to do. But because I am not LOVING EVERY MINUTE of it, I am being chastised. No matter what I do, I am not good enough. Apparently my only options are (1) lobotomy or (2) lie.*

 

[GoBison]

Go with option 1

Augusta, I don’t think liber was chastising you. You are doing the right thing you are working it out with your husband. You seem frustrated it’s not going as fast as you want it to. Don’t let some stranger on the Internet frustrate you even more. Soon you and your husband will be having fun again and that dialouging stuff will just help you in the future.

Hopefully you are enjoying the time you guys are spending together even if you don’t enjoy the dialouging.

 

[Augusta_Sans]

Hopefully you are enjoying the time you guys are spending together even if you don’t enjoy the dialouging.

Yes. And again, I do enjoy 50% of dialoguing, I just am tired of talking about my feelings. Probably because I’ve been in counseling whenever I’m in school (it’s free to college students) so I’ve talked about my feelings a billion times.

 

[crazzeto]

Yes. And again, I do enjoy 50% of dialoguing, I just am tired of talking about my feelings. Probably because I’ve been in counseling whenever I’m in school (it’s free to college students) so I’ve talked about my feelings a billion times.

Yeah, but have you talked about them with him? I think you mentioned that was a weak spot previously. There’s a world of difference between “talking about your feelings” and actually talking through your feelings for someone with that person. The latter offers more powerful oppertunities to gain insights.