My disillusioned marriage (UPDATE)

[ManOnFire]

Pop culture media will continue it’s assault on marriage by continuing to attempt to seduce men away from loving their wives by parading scantilly-clad hotties to the masses. Loveless wonderlust steals men’s attention away from true love of the heart. And pop culture media is only getting racier and trashier. Women are competing to be trashier than the next in the name of fashion. These kids shows involve 14 year olds displaying cleavage for crying out loud! How trashy! They’re promoting more sex than true, romantic love. How can love survive in such a graceless age? Women make much of the financial decisions in a home. You need to organize amongst yourselves to form a boycott against this sleaze and trash. Please consider joining onemillionmoms.com. I’m ready to get rid of my cable TV. We need to take action against the media for masturbating us men into the wrong direction with this trash. Take away their financial incentive, and you can save marriages and heartbreak all over the world. True romantic sacrificial love needs to make a comeback.

We Men (and many women) need to realize that the wonderlust of infatuation does not equal true love. Our attention-deficit disorder society was created by the speed of modern life in an instant gratification world. Wonderlust is quicker and shallower, but wears off quickly. True love is deep. If Liz Taylor was more mindful of the difference, maybe she would not have been married 8 times. We need to be mindful of the difference and long for the true, romantic love and reject the shallowness, even if it means distancing ourselves from pop culture media.

Personally, I’ve found that it’s too hard to “ride the fence” in this culture. Pop culture is driving a giant wedge which is pushing us to choose between the selfish feelgood-ism of love-less sex, drugs, gambling, etc. VERSUS giving humble sacrificial true love for our spouses, kids, jobs, friends, etc., where we give 95% of our waking hours in service to everyone else, and deeply and lustfully appreciate the last 5% we get for ourselves. “Knowing how to live” is easy in this scenario. “Service to others” is the challenge, duty, and obligation, “The Climb.” Satisfaction is the reward.

Help your men (and women) to see this, and you’ll look forward to the 5% you get for yourself, and feel your heart sing as you are closer to God while giving the 95%.

 

[iamrefreshed]

It was a hard cold calculated affair, a total rejection of him. Just because you told him point blank that you didn’t enjoy sex with him, were divorcing him, and were going to have sex with someone else does not mean you did not cheat on him. This was not something you did by losing your head in a moment of passion or weakness. You deliberately and totally rejected him and gave what you promised to share with only him to another man.

And unless this is addressed they are in for a very difficult time.

In the last thread, the OP mentioned calling Adam “her husband” when convenient in front of their catholic friends. He became her “ex-husband” around the secular folks (and dates).

She’s using the same logic to explain away this sexual partner. If she thinks Adam doesn’t hurt from this betrayal, she is sadly mistaken and doing him a terrible disservice in ignoring it. She went so far as to say she didn’t ‘relate’ to Retrouvaille couples because they were impacted by infidelity and she wasn’t. Well, Adam can relate.

Unless there is a profound change of heart on her part, I see nothing but more pain for Adam.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

And unless this is addressed they are in for a very difficult time.

In the last thread, the OP mentioned calling Adam “her husband” when convenient in front of their catholic friends. He became her “ex-husband” around the secular folks (and dates).

She’s using the same logic to explain away this sexual partner. If she thinks Adam doesn’t hurt from this betrayal, she is sadly mistaken and doing him a terrible disservice in ignoring it. She went so far as to say she didn’t ‘relate’ to Retrouvaille couples because they were impacted by infidelity and she wasn’t. Well, Adam can relate.

Unless there is a profound change of heart on her part, I see nothing but more pain for Adam.

It seems that OP has tried to find ways to say she didn’t “cheat” but for intents and purposes, she did, in the eyes of God (and the Church).

Unless one spouse dies or has an annullment in hand, it is cheating. Even an emotional affair is cheating.

 

[shannyk]

Honestly, it kinda speaks volumes about him as well. Waiting around for years for a wife that rejected him and slept with another man, instead of recognizing that his wife had no concept of Catholic marriage and moving ahead with an annulment is, well, sad. It’s part and parcel of society today where men are denigrated in the media and now many act like beta lapdogs. Meanwhile, many of those who portray “alpha” qualities don’t have the moral foundation to keep themselves on the straight and narrow before marriage… especially since women are literally throwing themselves at any man who exudes masculinity since so few do so today. Just as there is a difference between being confident and arrogant, there’s a difference between being humble and being a doormat.

Look, I hope that whatever is God’s will in this situation ends up happening. But I think the husband’s behavior here of letting himself get run over like a freight train and constantly begging his wife to talk and share her feelings despite her sleeping with another guy probably doomed him… especially since it’s plainly obvious she doesn’t have a firm concept of Catholic marriage. I love my wife to death and I think spousal communication is extremely important. I’m not a 1950s totally silent father/husband type guy; I’m actually pretty emotive and sensitive.

But if my wife said she didn’t have feelings for me after just a couple years of marriage and was planning on separating and was sleeping with another dude, I’d file for a quickie divorce, move as expeditiously as possible to annulment, kick her out of the house and tell her exactly where she can go. It’s total nonsense that this guy has let himself get completely steamrolled, just like it would be nonsense for a cheating husband to make his wife come crawling back to HIM.

And I actually think that Augusta might be having an easier time of rebuilding things if he showed a little more…self respect. There is something very un-masculine about letting a woman walk all over you. A man can still be gentle, forgiving and kind and still have some fight in him. Adam doesn’t seem to be fighting for himself, or his own dignity.

 

[The_Bucket]

And I actually think that Augusta might be having an easier time of rebuilding things if he showed a little more…self respect. There is something very un-masculine about letting a woman walk all over you. A man can still be gentle, forgiving and kind and still have some fight in him. Adam doesn’t seem to be fighting for himself, or his own dignity.

I actually agree with you. Look to Christ as the epitome of being a man. He was forgiving, humble, selfless to the point of death… but he was also strident, confident, strong and embraced his mission in life which was to die for our sins. While He didn’t parade around telling everyone that he was the Messiah all the time, he did tell some folks that truth and he never denied it when asked. Sometimes he was silent to worldly authority when asked if he was a king or if he was the Son of God, but he never said no and His death was not forced upon Him but instead something He let happen to Him because He knew it was necessary for all of us.

So yes, a man must be humble and turn the other cheek. But it should be an act of courage to offer the other cheek, not one forged out of a lack of self-respect. This guy is not being courageous by allowing his wife to live in a fantasyworld where she didn’t betray him. He should be incensed but willing to forgive and reconcile if possible… not seeking out acceptance of someone that stabbed him in the back. And you’re right, I think she’s looking for a bit of spine in him; sad that it came to the point where he has to find out if he’s a man based on if he’ll force his cheating wife to take the hard road back or if he’ll open his arms wide. Because if he does the latter, he’s only going to find another knife, this one in his stomach, when she finds out how weak he really is.

I know that’s harsh and probably condescending since I don’t personally know the situation, but you see this play out over and over again… especially in modern times.

 

[Consecrated]

well, personally, i think the OP *and *her husband are getting rail-roaded here. What I see, just from what the OP has shared with us: they are both working at it, both trying to compromise, and communicate more effectively, both failing at time, but picking back up and continuing on towards the goal. Goodness people…
OP, I agree with something Whatevergirl said a few posts back. Stick with it, but do not let yourself get discouraged by the amount of time it WILL take. I think the things you are doing, including the whole process of Retro., are very good. Of course you know many things you are doing and will be doing for your marriage are not all of them “fun”, but they can nevertheless be filled with Christ’s joy. So even though going through your “feelings” again for your husband is not your favorite thing to do, even tedious, it can still be a joyfilled time. :yup: try to unite some of the time you spend doing this with prayer… like before you start journaling, offer all you write up to God and ask Mary to help you say the right words. Or is is possible to journal in front of the Blessed Sacrament?

i think you’re doing just fine…

And, just to clarify, though obviously you don’t have to share if you don’t want to, but did you have a *physical *relationship with another man after your divorce? I was under the impression that you didn’t, but other posters are saying otherwise, so now I’m confused. I thought that all your physical relationships with those other than your husband occurred before you dated you husband.

 

[whatevergirl]

*This thread has taken an interesting turn. And, I think there is good food for thought.

But, Augusta…I thought I’d share this with you, too. When my husband and I were separated, it was of my urging, as I’ve mentioned. That said, I mentioned to you in this thread, that it took my husband a long time (maybe a year) to fully trust that I wasn’t going to ask for a divorce. It makes my heart break knowing that I put him through this, but I did. ((confessed this years ago, and have been repentant, but I’m still upset with myself for hurting him))

And what I would submit to you is to look at it how I had to…the one who does the hurting in the relationship, has to pay some “penance” to get back on track. I was definitely thinking of throwing in the towel by about 6 months, when my husband was still standoffish and cold with me. I prayed and prayed…and truly, I felt the Holy Spirit tell me…sometimes, you have to do penance on earth in payment for the hurt you might have caused someone. That ‘‘revelation’’ really helped me, and I grew more patient…eventually, my husband grew to trust…and here we are…still married…and happily, I might add. And by penance, I mean, you might have to just sit back and accept that this is where your husband is…and you need to be patient, as he was with you. (if you want a marriage again with him) That means sitting through discussion after discussion if you have to, listening to his feelings, and helping HIM through his trust issues with you. It’s hard, I won’t lie…it’s hard. But, penance can be hard, sometimes.

So, it takes time, and patience…Hang in there. God bless, and be well. *

 

[kib]

well, personally, i think the OP *and *her husband are getting rail-roaded here. What I see, just from what the OP has shared with us: they are both working at it, both trying to compromise, and communicate more effectively, both failing at time, but picking back up and continuing on towards the goal. Goodness people…

QFT.

I totally agree.

 

[shannyk]

well, personally, i think the OP *and *

her husband are getting rail-roaded here. What I see, just from what the OP has shared with us: they are both working at it, both trying to compromise, and communicate more effectively, both failing at time, but picking back up and continuing on towards the goal. Goodness people…
OP, I agree with something Whatevergirl said a few posts back. Stick with it, but do not let yourself get discouraged by the amount of time it WILL take. I think the things you are doing, including the whole process of Retro., are very good. Of course you know many things you are doing and will be doing for your marriage are not all of them “fun”, but they can nevertheless be filled with Christ’s joy. So even though going through your “feelings” again for your husband is not your favorite thing to do, even tedious, it can still be a joyfilled time. :yup: try to unite some of the time you spend doing this with prayer… like before you start journaling, offer all you write up to God and ask Mary to help you say the right words. Or is is possible to journal in front of the Blessed Sacrament?

i think you’re doing just fine…

And, just to clarify, though obviously you don’t have to share if you don’t want to, but did you have a *physical *relationship with another man after your divorce? I was under the impression that you didn’t, but other posters are saying otherwise, so now I’m confused. I thought that all your physical relationships with those other than your husband occurred before you dated you husband.

i dont think anyone is intending to railroad, maybe it is coming off that way. I think people are trying to help Augusta figure out the whole dynamic and why she doesn’t ‘feel’ anything.

Probably there is just waaaaaaay too much emphasis on the feelings and why they are or aren’t there, is the problem. That and just a lot of over thinking/analyzing, which is only human, to need to figure everything out and have answers.

Agusta, I think you have to give things a lot more TIME.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Probably there is just waaaaaaay too much emphasis on the feelings and why they are or aren’t there, is the problem. That and just a lot of over thinking/analyzing, which is only human, to need to figure everything out and have answers.

Agusta, I think you have to give things a lot more TIME.

---

Exactly.

Maybe some didn’t read the really long first thread about this. We’ve all been at this a long time talking about feelings and actions and the real meaning of love. And it’s a bumpy ride just watching it. Having lived it personally, trying to fix a marriage, I know it’s bumpy. But it’s also frustrating to hear good things about the progress they’re making and then a day later she comes back with the same complaint we talked about 5 weeks ago.

About feelings. And how she doesn’t feel anything. Which is what led her to leave him the first time.

I’m sure we don’t mean to come across as short-tempered or impatient, but there is another party in this, a man whose ego has taken a huge kick. Who is being patient and trying. But who has been rejected at the very core of his being. And maybe Augusta doesn’t know how that feels… to be the one who has been rejected like that. Maybe she has walked away from all relationships, or it was mutually angry. But to offer yourself in marriage and to offer your very being and be told, “No thanks. I don’t feel anything” is a very hard blow to recover from. I will say again, she needs to explore with a therapist why she is rejecting someone who actually wants and loves her.

Cuz honey, if I found a lovely religious kind patient man who stood by me no matter what I did, that kind of goodness would attract me so I’d be all over him like butter on toast!

The question is, Augusta, why doesn’t it melt your heart? Do you not think you deserve to be loved like that so you push it away? Do you think you need to be punished for something so you push the good things in your life away and are drawn to men who use you and don’t treat you with dignity?

The answer to that is your answer to a lot of things.

 

[iamrefreshed]

*This thread has taken an interesting turn. And, I think there is good food for thought. *

But, Augusta…I thought I’d share this with you, too. When my husband and I were separated, it was of my urging, as I’ve mentioned. That said, I mentioned to you in this thread, that it took my husband a long time (maybe a year) to fully trust that I wasn’t going to ask for a divorce. It makes my heart break knowing that I put him through this, but I did. ((confessed this years ago, and have been repentant, but I’m still upset with myself for hurting him))

And what I would submit to you is to look at it how I had to…the one who does the hurting in the relationship, has to pay some “penance” to get back on track. I was definitely thinking of throwing in the towel by about 6 months, when my husband was still standoffish and cold with me. I prayed and prayed…and truly, I felt the Holy Spirit tell me…sometimes, you have to do penance on earth in payment for the hurt you might have caused someone. That ‘‘revelation’’ really helped me, and I grew more patient…eventually, my husband grew to trust…and here we are…still married…and happily, I might add. And by penance, I mean, you might have to just sit back and accept that this is where your husband is…and you need to be patient, as he was with you. (if you want a marriage again with him) That means sitting through discussion after discussion if you have to, listening to his feelings, and helping HIM through his trust issues with you. It’s hard, I won’t lie…it’s hard. But, penance can be hard, sometimes.

So, it takes time, and patience…Hang in there. God bless, and be well.

You make a valid point Whatevergirl. It’s a matter of her husband (and yours) feeling ‘safe’ again. Like it or not there are consequences for our actions. God bless you for recognizing yours and restoring your marriage!

Augusta needs to do the ‘heavy lifting’ here.

 

[monicatholic]

The question is, Augusta, why doesn’t it melt your heart? Do you not think you deserve to be loved like that so you push it away? Do you think you need to be punished for something so you push the good things in your life away and are drawn to men who use you and don’t treat you with dignity?

augusta, a while back, we pm’ed for a little bit. this question, posed by Lib, re-hit some ol;d anils for me.

in fact, IN FACT, i harbored a vague disdain for my husband’s tenderness of me. that’s what past sinful sexual encounters had done to me.

and i didn’t even know it.

i simply had to re-ENTER marriage fully. i had to LIVE it fully. ***only then did i ***receive the graces fully-- the graces to heal. the graces to view my husband as the strong rock of a man that he is. the graces to fall mad wild in love with him. the graces to have every supposedly enticing memory erased by the astonsishing reality of our marriage.

the grace to ask my husband’s forgiveness. because, i was, IN FACT, unfaithful to him in the simple act of dismissing his real love and remembering (with fascination and elation) some other falsehood.

but i had to ENTER fully into the marriage. i was not going to get the graces of marriage by hovering outside the peripheral of marriage. it was an act of faith-- both in God and in husband.

God blessed my ***continual ***act of faith.

in a big way.

i’m the most happily married woman i know.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Monica, the happy looks on your childrens’ faces testify to that. Your post makes my brain smile.

 

[GracedUpon]

Augusta, I’ve been following this thread and I’ve been praying for you and your husband. I noticed you haven’t posted for awhile, so I hope all is well with you. If you have any updates, I’m sure I’m not the only one who would like you to post it here!

Prayers and God bless!

 

[GoBison]

Augusta,

I hope that things are going good with your husband. And I hope that you are still hanging around and taking some of the advice that people gave to you. I’ll share my story with you as they are somewhat similar and may give you and understanding of where your husband may be.

About three years ago my wife stated she wasn’t “Happy”. So what did she do about it she said she wanted a divorce. No divorce came about. I begged and pleaded with her for 9 months. I even moved out of the master bedroom and slept in the basement. All the while she would be off partying every weekend. She spent her nights driving around talking to some guy from high school. She even went on a couple of trips with him and others. Was there anything physical I don’t know but I don’t think so. She went as far as applying for a job in a different state. That is when she said that I was allowed to “come with her”. I did and things got better. I turned down a promotion at my job to go only to find less of a job where I am now. I would try to bring things up about what happened and she would only tell me that I am just jealous. (A problem her folks have been dealing with for years). The past three years I tried everything I could to have my wife love me. We did what she wanted. We held off on having kids because she did not think it was the right time. Where did this leave me. 1. Questioning myself thinking if this doesn’t workout and I did all this how will it work with anyone else. I did what I thought I had to do to be a good husband. I cooked, cleaned, worked, we went out several times a week and I was always there for her. I even scheduled my work meeting around her break because she didn’t have anyone to go to break with. 2. Her loosing all respect for me. I allowed her to treat me horribly and I took all the blame for her. Thinking that if we could just get past this with time it would all be better.

When we moved we discussed nothing of the past. I bring it up I am jealous and that is it she did nothing wrong. She still claims that she did nothing wrong and more recently there was nothing wrong with her sleeping with her phone under her pillow in case some guy at work texted her. Or nothing wrong with her calling him every morning on the way to work to bring him a coffee. That is what people who work together do. Mind you they work retail in different departments and would not see each other but only for that reason.

Why did I do all these things because I thought that I was being the good Catholic Boy and trying to keep my marriage together. But I wasn’t it only made any love that me wife had for me go away. We also didn’t deal with the things that were there between us. This time she did go all the way with the divorce. In one week we are meeting to go through mediation and finalize everything. Her being one step away from heading out the door was always there for me as I never knew how committed she was. And by that time I was so beaten down that I could not stand up for what I needed. When we decided to try to finally have children I started to feel more comfortable in our relationship and things finally started to turn around for us or so I thought. That lasted one month and then she said she wanted a divorce.

Ok so that was a lot of rambling just to try to hopefully get the point to you that even though your husband said he wants to get back together it does not mean that there are not things that you two need to talk about. Your husband sounds a lot like myself in that he thinks he is only doing the right thing and taking you back and loving you unconditionally. But with him just taking you back now because you want to and sweeping everything under the rug you may end right back where you were. You say that you respect your husband. But is this respect as a good person or as a man and a husband. If you don’t respect him as a man that will stand up for himself then you will never have that loving feeling for him that you desire. Your husband has some work to do but is too worried right now to say much to you so you are not headed out the door again. I hope that you are able to bring the tough things up to talk about and reassure him that you are there for good. You may say that you never thought it was an affair but even in your own signature line you state “civil divorce” so does that mean that deep down you know that you were never divorced.

I pray for the best for the both of you and that you have a long and happy life together and you never have to deal with this again. I hope that your dialouging continues and you continue to become more comfortable with it.

 

[whatevergirl]

*GoBison…my gosh, that is an incredible story. I think that it will be helpful to many here. Thanks for sharing with us all. (I’m also sorry your marriage did not work out…but you deserve better.) I think you know that, now. But, it still hurts when a marriage ends, and you tried hard…I’m so sorry.

As an aside, I often ponder why we as Catholics feel that being a ‘‘good Catholic’’ spouse requires us to sweep our feelings under the carpet when something in the marriage is terribly wrong? Why is this a common thing that Catholics tell one another…that we have to allow someone to treat us any which way in order to be a good Catholic? I am not saying this to you GoBison, but I see this a lot in Christian circles, maybe it’s not just Catholic circles. And I don’t get that. *

 

[joandarc2008]

*GoBison…my gosh, that is an incredible story. I think that it will be helpful to many here. Thanks for sharing with us all. (I’m also sorry your marriage did not work out…but you deserve better.) I think you know that, now. But, it still hurts when a marriage ends, and you tried hard…I’m so sorry.

As an aside, I often ponder why we as Catholics feel that being a ‘‘good Catholic’’ spouse requires us to sweep our feelings under the carpet when something in the marriage is terribly wrong? Why is this a common thing that Catholics tell one another…that we have to allow someone to treat us any which way in order to be a good Catholic? I am not saying this to you GoBison, but I see this a lot in Christian circles, maybe it’s not just Catholic circles. And I don’t get that. *

I don’t know - I think the “old-type” of Catholicism seemed to have so much of that stereotypical “Catholic Guilt” that sometimes when things go wrong it can lead to a lot self depreciation rather than self-exploration. I think if we did more of the latter than the former we would truly become more Christ like in nature. However sometimes it is easier to take the pain of martyrdom in life than to make hard choices and accept change or cause change. However, what we fail to realize is martyrdom is a waste if it does not serve God’s purpose.

 

[whatevergirl]

I don’t know - I think the “old-type” of Catholicism seemed to have so much of that stereotypical “Catholic Guilt” that sometimes when things go wrong it can lead to a lot self depreciation rather than self-exploration. I think if we did more of the latter than the former we would truly become more Christ like in nature. However sometimes it is easier to take the pain of martyrdom in life than to make hard choices and accept change or cause change. However, what we fail to realize is martyrdom is a waste if it does not serve God’s purpose.

*I agree, especially with that last sentence. I just don’t see how remaining in a truly bad and all around unhealthy marriage proves that you’re a ‘‘good’’ Catholic. (not that you’re not a good Catholic but I should say…as opposed to leaving a bad situation, and stopping the pain that is happening to you on a daily basis) Marriage is hard work at times, but it shouldn’t be an endless uphill climb, with endless misery and pain. It really shouldn’t be, and God didn’t design it like that. And it upsets me when I see friends or family stay in very very bad situations, dangerous even…because they think they will be disappointing God if they leave. sigh!

Thanks for the reply. *

 

[The_Bucket]

Despite all the terrible stuff you’ve dealt with, I think you’re making some big time strides there GoBison. You weren’t the one committing the terrible evils in your relationship, but you didn’t do yourself any good begging and pleading with a woman who was either giving you a cruel test or just seeing how much she could crush you before throwing you away. Good women that have a strong sense of what marriage is all about don’t do that.

Yes, people who understand marriage and consent fully to it commit errors. Some of them get into huge fights with their spouses and yes, some even cheat. But they don’t intentionally inflict cruel blow after cruel blow the way you suffered. Glad to see that you recognized that you can “man up” as it were and stand up to that insanity and still be a good Catholic.

I hope and pray everything works out for you man. God willing after all this nastiness is beihind you, you’ll find a good woman out there if that’s your calling in life.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Sigh.

Bison, your story seems familiar…



Any of this ring a bell:

escapeabuse.com/npd.pdf