My Experience in A Russian Orthodox Church

[Rawb]

But surely a Spiritual Father must be well formed. A Spiritual Director who told me that murder wasn’t wrong, and he honestly believed it, would still be wrong. For Catholics contraception is one of those things that is intrinsically and gravely wrong.

Your position would make more sense to me if we were dealing with a set of rules to which we had to conform, or were dealing with a computer who could not interpret surrounding events. As it so happens we’re dealing with a Person, and thus I trust the mercy of God to cover and take into account all situations and surrounding circumstances.

The Church has never said that everyone who is involved with contraception commits a mortal sin though, and I am sure there are many people who do not incur a mortal sin because Catholic Priests or Nuns have told them that contraception isn’t bad. That does not change the fact that contraception is still an objectively seriously sinful act, apart from an indiviudals subjective responsibility.

I have to say this reads as saying “contraception is an objectively sinful act, except it’s not a mortal sin sometimes, but we always consider mortal sins mortal sins, except sometimes when they’re not.” I know the teachings on mortal sin that would make it not a mortal sin sometimes, but I rather see no point in having the label when it’s so often explained anyway.

 

[dvdjs]

I have to say this reads as saying “contraception is an objectively sinful act, except it’s not a mortal sin sometimes, but we always consider mortal sins mortal sins, except sometimes when they’re not.” I know the teachings on mortal sin that would make it not a mortal sin sometimes, but I rather see no point in having the label when it’s so often explained anyway.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church puts it this way:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

The teaching of the Catholic Church is really not so subtle. One can readily make a list of sins “whose object is grave matter”. In working to develop an informed conscience, such a list could be helpful. Discerning “full knowledge” and “deliberate consent” is, of course, not as black and white. That is where a confessor or spiritual advisor helps. The situation is not really very different in Eastern Orthodoxy; your attempt at mockery is misplaced. Indeed as you acquire some experience in the EOC you will find that some writers use the category, “mortal sin” just as in the Catholic church.

 

[smad0142]

The Dogmas and Doctrines let us know that we are dealing with the right Person. After all the devil has appeared as an angel, or the blessed Theotokos, to many Saints. Without firm groundings it is easy to be led astray.

And my providing caveats in the explanation of mortal sin is just the same as an EO who is willing to say xyz is not ok, unless a spiritual father says its ok.

 

[Vico]

Anyone who does not believe everything that the Catholic Church definitively teaches is not a part of the Church.

And you are still avoiding the fact that the Catholic Church, which is composed of the hierarchy and all baptized and believing Catholic, holds definitive positions on issues like contraception whereas the Orthodox Church does not. The Catholic Magesterium is much more firm and comprehensive.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324